Pole Barn Question

[Midniteoyl]

Some good ideas here.. If you really want to seal the bottom up you could always build on a stem wall, at increased cost, but would keep the wood off the ground, the critters out, and give a place for the doors to seal against.

I have done the added bottom skirt board on an older pole barn. Used Direct Burial grade 2"x10"s, dried and painted, buried a few inches into the soil. Not keeping anything out but the wind this way, but could dig trench down and add gravel. 2' down and 1' wide is enough around here for them not to dig under. Soil is sandy so drains and doesn't heave.

For some wall condensation control, house wrap the exterior before the metal goes on. Also helps stop the wind. You can do the same for the roof, but better would be fully ventilated, or spray the underside with closed cell foam. Personally, I was thinking of decking the roof and using High Temp Peel and Stick for under metal, same as my house.

 

[KennyG]

House wrap and insulation will help even if you don't heat it. I have a wood stove I burn when I'm working out there but with insulation and a concrete floor it stays above freezing even without heat. In the summer it stays cooler which makes working pleasant.

 

[BlueKnife]

Is it worth insulating a pole barn if it isn't going to be heated? Will it help control condensation?

The contractor wants $3500 to install spray foam. It looks like it would be a mess to install wall mount fixtures in some barns I've seen. Might be worth it if there is some benefit though.

$3500 means that it's probably open cell foam, which you should definitely not do. Open cell foam needs an interior vapor barrier in order to keep condensation (and then mold) from forming inside it. I'm not a fan. Insulation is great, if done properly. Helps tame the temperature swings, which minimizes condensation on equipment in the building. The benefits aren't going to be nearly as evident though with a dirt floor. You're going to have a ton of moisture wicking up through the floor and getting trapped in the building if it's sealed in with a vapor barrier. You'd be better off putting the money towards a concrete floor first (with a good vapor barrier underneath it) and then save up to install insulation later. If this building is just going to be used to keep the weather off of equipment and the floor is going to stay dirt and/or gravel, I would not insulate or seal it. The silver bubble wrap stuff does work wonders for minimizing condensation. Works great in any metal sided or roofed building that isn't sheeted and house wrapped. IMO, it's better than sheeting and underlayment under an exposed fastener metal roof, especially in a building with a dirt floor, that's going to have a lot of moisture in it.

 

[bdhsfz6]

$3500 means that it's probably open cell foam, which you should definitely not do. Open cell foam needs an interior vapor barrier in order to keep condensation (and then mold) from forming inside it. I'm not a fan. Insulation is great, if done properly. Helps tame the temperature swings, which minimizes condensation on equipment in the building. The benefits aren't going to be nearly as evident though with a dirt floor. You're going to have a ton of moisture wicking up through the floor and getting trapped in the building if it's sealed in with a vapor barrier. You'd be better off putting the money towards a concrete floor first (with a good vapor barrier underneath it) and then save up to install insulation later. If this building is just going to be used to keep the weather off of equipment and the floor is going to stay dirt and/or gravel, I would not insulate or seal it. The silver bubble wrap stuff does work wonders for minimizing condensation. Works great in any metal sided or roofed building that isn't sheeted and house wrapped. IMO, it's better than sheeting and underlayment under an exposed fastener metal roof, especially in a building with a dirt floor, that's going to have a lot of moisture in it.

Right now, I'm thinking I'll skip the insulation. The building is to be located on the high spot of a knoll on a solid red shale ledge. The site, including the floor, will be leveled with gravel and there will be no underlying soil. Since the grade slopes away in all directions, I'm hoping very little moisture will wick inside.

 

[BlueKnife]

Right now, I'm thinking I'll skip the insulation. The building is to be located on the high spot of a knoll on a solid red shale ledge. The site, including the floor, will be leveled with gravel and there will be no underlying soil. Since the grade slopes away in all directions, I'm hoping very little moisture will wick inside.

Sounds like moisture from the ground should be minimal. I would definitely still do the bubble wrap though, especially on the roof. Really nice not having condensation dripping on your equipment.

 

[eolesen]

If you go the bubble wrap route, make sure it extends past the sidewalls...

 

[grsthegreat]

If i were to do my existing pole barns again, i would NOT USE that white insulation cloth, and use plywood, tar paper than metal roof.

Bugs land on white insulation, birds peck at insects, holes form. Squirrels enter holes to make nests. All that crap starts to fall out of ceiling.

 

[Midniteoyl]

If i were to do my existing pole barns again, i would NOT USE that white insulation cloth, and use plywood, tar paper than metal roof.

Bugs land on white insulation, birds peck at insects, holes form. Squirrels enter holes to make nests. All that crap starts to fall out of ceiling.

Same reason I was thinking of just decking the roof. That, and if (when) the exposed fasteners start to leak, it won't drip to the inside. I wouldn't use tar paper though, but a good Peel and Stick made for under metal roofs. They also have 'lifetime' fasteners that have a 'bell cap' head on them that covers the neoprene washer to protect it from the UV and also helps prevent you from over tightening and causing leaks that way.

 

[BlueKnife]

If i were to do my existing pole barns again, i would NOT USE that white insulation cloth, and use plywood, tar paper than metal roof.

Bugs land on white insulation, birds peck at insects, holes form. Squirrels enter holes to make nests. All that crap starts to fall out of ceiling.

Certainly agree on the white insulation. That stuff is garbage. It's pretty unusual to see that in the OP's area though. It's mostly a western thing, for whatever reason. I had heard of it but hadn't seen it in person till I moved west. Tar paper on the outside can bring it's own set of issues too. You really don't want a non air permeable barrier, like tar paper, on the outside of the sheeting or insulation. Non permeable air/vapor barriers, if used, should go on the warm side of the insulation and sheeting. Otherwise, condensation will end up forming on the back side of the barrier and cause mold, rot and other moisture related issues. An air permeable barrier, such as Tyvek, (the real Tyvek, not the stuff that's just a cheap tarp) allows trapped moisture to evaporate out away from the sheeting and insulation. That's for the walls. For roof, a non-permeable barrier is kinda the standard, although there are some good, breathable options available now. Synthetic felt works well and holds up far better than tar paper, both during installation and after.

 

[KenBike]

Check with the pole barn metal supplier, my last two building from Morton we had them use their metal with a thin fiber coating in the inside. It stops the metal from seating, birds and bugs cannot peck holes in it, and provides some reduction in the sound from rain. My Brothers farm has two old barns with dirt floors and they are pretty open so the wind blows around the eaves and under doors. The inside temps stays close to the outside and stops the sweating of the metal. You are going to have a lot of moisture coming out of the ground so a large amount of of venting on the eaves and a working ridge vent and copula's would be mandatory.

 

[CH4Ohio]

Get roofing metal with the Condenstop backing. Thin foam coating that prevents condensation on the bottom of the roof panels. Pretty common now and easy to source. Buy your metal with this backing already installed on it. Easy to handle and goes up just like "plain" roof metal.

 

[BackRoad]

If i were to do my existing pole barns again, i would NOT USE that white insulation cloth, and use plywood, tar paper than metal roof.

Bugs land on white insulation, birds peck at insects, holes form. Squirrels enter holes to make nests. All that crap starts to fall out of ceiling.

Just wondering Mr. GRS...OSB or plywood?

Does it matter if the objective is preventing condensate from dripping from the underside of the metal roof?

 

[lman]

Just wondering Mr. GRS...OSB or plywood?

Does it matter if the objective is preventing condensate from dripping from the underside of the metal roof?

Doors would work to protect the inside of your barn from pests. My 56x40 barn has never had an unwanted animal inside, not even a mouse.

 

[BlueKnife]

Just wondering Mr. GRS...OSB or plywood?

Does it matter if the objective is preventing condensate from dripping from the underside of the metal roof?

You have to be careful with OSB under metal. It doesn't not hold screws well long term, so you have to be sure that the screws are going through and hitting purlins. Most metal roofing/siding manufacturers recommend a minimum thickness of 5/8 for OSB under plywood. OSB is more subject to mold formation if condensation does form on it. I've seen it fail often enough that I won't use OSB any more, of any thickness, under metal.

 

[grsthegreat]

We tore off the barn roof about 5 or 6 years ago and they used 1/2” plywood, not osb. They reused existing metal with new longer, thicker screws.