Poor cab heat

[BTDT]

Sorry to hear that after all you've been through. Maybe(??) the new shop will get you fixed up without a lot of hassle. I hate to see anyone lose their job, but maybe some of those folks needed to go. John Deere got a lot of bad publicity out of your misfortune.

 

[radman1]

Sorry to hear that after all you've been through. Maybe(??) the new shop will get you fixed up without a lot of hassle. I hate to see anyone lose their job, but maybe some of those folks needed to go. John Deere got a lot of bad publicity out of your misfortune.

After further talk with my Jd dealer, they said JD corp took away their ability to sell tractors which effectively put them out of business. This place had been in business about 5-6 years. They said JD corp didn't want a business in this area. Seems weird. Lincoln, NE has over 250,000 people and the only other CUT dealer sells kubota. It seemed like they sold quite a few tractor and didn't have many new tractors just sitting around. Next closest JD dealer is about 25 miles from here and they sell mostly ag. Heck, they just hired 2 more shop techs in the past 2 weeks and a new business manager 2 months ago. Why would you hire more guys if you knew your going out of business? The new business manager just moved from Oklahoma.

 

[gemini5362]

If I was going to take a guess I would say that maybe the other buisness that is 25 miles away has been there longer or sells more tractors or is married to the district reps cousin. This sounds to me like JD felt there were too many dealers in too close of a proximity to each other.

 

[dirtworksequip]

radman,
Several years ago I know that Deere was telling dealers they either had to upgrade their stores or go out of business. I know of at least 4 dealers that decided to go out of business and 2 that went with the upgraded stores. This is probably what has happened to the store closest to you.

As far as the other store goes it has always been my experience that the dealers that have mostly AG equipment actually have better mechanics and parts people and they give better and more reliable service on the CUT's too. They just seem to have a better understanding of their product.

Hope this is the case with the other dealer.

 

[radman1]

dirtwordsequip and gemini5362
yea, the other JD dealers in the area have been in business longer. The store going out of business was built all new 5-6 years ago and they have a very nice building and lot. The next JD dealer is not that far away but still the convenience factor will be missed. When I bought my 3720, the local guys were about $2500 cheaper than other JD dealers I checked.

 

[turbo36]

Update: This is the latest response from my dealer:


"Currently reported with JD is your case and 2 from Nebraska. All 3 had the roof off for stereo installs. ( if there are others, please have them contact their dealer and report their concerns as we have) The only difference between 3520 and 3720 is an intercooler on the engine and air cleaner assembly. They want us to come back down next week block off cab air filter so only inside air is being circulated. We will also remove roof and make sure sealant foam has not been compromised.

He said when they tested in Hurley Wisconsin it was minus 16, run rpms up to engine temp and driver was in short sleeves. But if they compromised the roof so outside air was being drawn thru in places not acceptable it would dramatically cool down the temp. He believes this is what is going on."

Radman, did you have a stereo installed?
Other then Radman and myself I don't know of any others that have a heat problem. Are there others that haven't posted?

 

[joebobharley]

radman,
I've been watching all of these posts with particular interest. I have a 4320 w/cab which for the most part would be virtually identical to the 3x20 series cabs. The main reason that this thread sparked my interest is that my machine also exhibits tendencies to be slow to heat even in this mild winter that we are having and I live in EC Alabama. While my issue is not as serious as yours, I have observed a direct relation w/ outside airtemp and eng temp. If the temperature is in the upper 30's to low 40's, it's hard to get the engine up to temp unless I have a load of some kind on it. If the engine temp is in the low range of the band, then it takes cranking the heater control wide open to get warm air in the cabin. Now, as I have stated, my problem seems to be minor compared to yours, but I still see some of the symptoms.

I have also had the roof of the tractor off for stereo installation and was very particular about sealing the cabin top. I certainly don't want to down play what JD corp is trying to accomplish, but you would have to have a major seal problem to pull in enough air at the outside temps that have been discussed to cause the problem you have seen. I don't believe that is the root cause of the issue.

Richard

Update: This is the latest response from my dealer:


"Currently reported with JD is your case and 2 from Nebraska. All 3 had the roof off for stereo installs. ( if there are others, please have them contact their dealer and report their concerns as we have) The only difference between 3520 and 3720 is an intercooler on the engine and air cleaner assembly. They want us to come back down next week block off cab air filter so only inside air is being circulated. We will also remove roof and make sure sealant foam has not been compromised.

He said when they tested in Hurley Wisconsin it was minus 16, run rpms up to engine temp and driver was in short sleeves. But if they compromised the roof so outside air was being drawn thru in places not acceptable it would dramatically cool down the temp. He believes this is what is going on."

Radman, did you have a stereo installed?
Other then Radman and myself I don't know of any others that have a heat problem. Are there others that haven't posted?

 

[radman1]

Turbo36
Yes, I did have the cab stereo installed by the dealer. I assume you still have the cab heat problem? I still don't think that is the reason. Even with the fan off, heater controlled knob turned all the way down, and sitting in my shed where there is no wind, I still can't get it to heat up. How can there be a big air leak with those kind of parameters? With those conditions, there is basically no air movement anywhere around the top of the cab/heater. Clamp the return hose and quickly see the heat rise. Unclamp the return hose and temp falls within minutes. Why did they just tell my dealer 2 weeks ago to try adjusting the injector timing? They don't have a clue and are guessing but the problem seems to be very few in number.

 

[radman1]

Tomorrow, I am going to do my own trouble shooting. I am going to drain the antifreeze (this is about the 5th time), and remove the return heater hose from the lower radiator hose "T" fitting. Splice on a longer hose and reroute it into the left side of the engine block where my engine plug heater is located. I bought a 1" to 3/4" pipe thread adapter to fit into the engine block and then will screw in a 3/4" pipe to 5/8" hose connector. Replace the antifreeze and see if that fixes the problem. I'll post the results of my readings with infrared temp gun.

 

[dwmaster]

I helped install my radio. They could be on to something if it was not put back together right. The way the system works is the entire roof cavity is pressurized, it is not a ducted system. Air could easily escape out the seem in the roof if not sealed right as well.

 

[WhyNot]

Hope you guys don't mind me jumping in so late but I agree with dwmaster that JD might have found the cause. Here is what i think is going on (just from what I skimmed through in this thread) Your tractor is running cool because it was designed to be ran under the harshest conditions ie. heat, dust, wide open for hours on end etc. Using it to mow the pasture or push snow and other chores does not put enough of a load on the engine to heat it up a lot. So now the water passing through the heater core is already cooler but not so cool that you would notice there was a problem with the temp of the air coming out of the vents. Now add the fact that the already cooler air is drawing in cold air after the heater core because the roof is not sealed correctly and you will notice a big difference. If it were me I would just as a trial put some tape where the roof seal is and see what happens. If the air is hot enough then take it back to the dealer and tell them to replace the seals.

 

[BTDT]

I still think it is related to engine not getting hot enough. Is the fan the only thing run off of the fan belt? Loosen belt so it doesn't cool as effectively as it would with a tight belt. Take it out and work it, see if temp comes up, comes up quicker, no change. If it was mine, I would even be tempted to turn fan around (so it would blow through radiator) to decrease air moving over block, and see if that made a difference. If A(you get water hot, and B(water is circulating through heater, then C(cab should heat up.

 

[radman1]

I was just about ready to reroute the heater hose but chickened out. I called another dealer who will look at it on monday. Talked to their service guy who thought it should be an easy fix. I told him to talk to the regional rep, Loren, who knows this tractor all to well.

 

[radman1]

Hope you guys don't mind me jumping in so late but I agree with dwmaster that JD might have found the cause. Here is what i think is going on (just from what I skimmed through in this thread) Your tractor is running cool because it was designed to be ran under the harshest conditions ie. heat, dust, wide open for hours on end etc. Using it to mow the pasture or push snow and other chores does not put enough of a load on the engine to heat it up a lot. So now the water passing through the heater core is already cooler but not so cool that you would notice there was a problem with the temp of the air coming out of the vents. Now add the fact that the already cooler air is drawing in cold air after the heater core because the roof is not sealed correctly and you will notice a big difference. If it were me I would just as a trial put some tape where the roof seal is and see what happens. If the air is hot enough then take it back to the dealer and tell them to replace the seals.

I see where your coming from, but the engine just doesn't get hot unless it is under moderate load. Then the engine gets hot, and I have all the hot air I want coming out of the heater. It is difficult to imagine that there is so much air movement over the heater core, that it can keep the engine from heating up.

 

[dirtworksequip]

radman, let me see if I understand your problem correctly. You say that you are not getting heat, but you also state that under moderate load it throws more heat than you need. I must be missing something here. I have a 3520 /cab,if its just sitting there doing nothing, idleing I would not expect to get any heat from the heater. Its just like any other piece of heavy equipment. If its not under some load.......no heat. Caterpillar 777 off road trucks are an example. Over $1,000,000 new. No load...........no heat. I guess I just don't understand when it is that you think you should be getting heat and are not.

Simply sitting there with the engine reved while better than just idleing still isn't putting the engine under load.

Please fill me in so I can better understand what the problem might be. I've followed your thread from the begining.

 

[gemini5362]

radman, let me see if I understand your problem correctly. You say that you are not getting heat, but you also state that under moderate load it throws more heat than you need. I must be missing something here. I have a 3520 /cab,if its just sitting there doing nothing, idleing I would not expect to get any heat from the heater. Its just like any other piece of heavy equipment. If its not under some load.......no heat. Caterpillar 777 off road trucks are an example. Over $1,000,000 new. No load...........no heat. I guess I just don't understand when it is that you think you should be getting heat and are not.

Simply sitting there with the engine reved while better than just idleing still isn't putting the engine under load.

Please fill me in so I can better understand what the problem might be. I've followed your thread from the begining.

Theoretically because it is an internal combustion engine it produces heat. My understanding of the purpose of a thermostat is to allow the engine to heat up to a predetermined temperature before it starts doing any cooling. So whether it is working hard or just idleing the engine should heat up to the operating temperature of the thermostat.

 

[radman1]

radman, let me see if I understand your problem correctly. You say that you are not getting heat, but you also state that under moderate load it throws more heat than you need. I must be missing something here. I have a 3520 /cab,if its just sitting there doing nothing, idleing I would not expect to get any heat from the heater. Its just like any other piece of heavy equipment. If its not under some load.......no heat. Caterpillar 777 off road trucks are an example. Over $1,000,000 new. No load...........no heat. I guess I just don't understand when it is that you think you should be getting heat and are not.

Simply sitting there with the engine reved while better than just idleing still isn't putting the engine under load.

Please fill me in so I can better understand what the problem might be. I've followed your thread from the begining.

The heater should be like that in a car. Even at idle a car's engine will heat up and thus the heater will blow out warm air given adequate time. My tractor and yours should behave no differently. It is a combustion engine, it makes lots of heat. Even at idle, the exhaust heat at the turbo on a cold day is 212F. For some reason, the circulating water returning from the cab cools the engine so much, the engine cannot make operating temp. To say that my idling block temp at the water pump should run at 97F (ambient temp was about 40) is crazy. It also is not good for the engine or efficient fuel combustion to run at that low temp. If I clamp the return heater hose off so there is no flow through the cab, the tractor will heat up to full operating temp in about 12 minutes at idle. Even JD corp says the tractor was tested at -16F with tractor idling and the operator was comfortable in a tee-shirt. 2 dealers also agree that is not how it should perform. Even if I get the engine up to operating temp, it will cool off in about 15 minutes at an idle and blow cool cab air out the heater. Does your car's heater stop putting out heat if you quite driving and let it sit while idling? The answer is NO.
This is a problem at 40F. What will it be like at 0? -15F? I may not have any cab heat even under load at very cold temps. Even with the heater and fan shut off, I cannot get the engine to warm up at an idle. Remember water is always circulating through the cab/hoses even with the heater shut off which is why clamping the hose will get the engine temp hot.

Our 2 cab ag tractors will heat up at idle and this tractor should too.
If your 3520 cab heater doesn't blow warm/hot air after a reasonable length of warm up at an idle, then you also have a problem.

 

[dirtworksequip]

I'll check it tomorrow. I'll get the cab comfortable and then let it sit and idle to see if the cab heat cools. So, far I've been satisfied with the heating system. Most of the time I have to turn it all the way down. Gets too warm in the cab.

 

[radman1]

I'll check it tomorrow. I'll get the cab comfortable and then let it sit and idle to see if the cab heat cools. So, far I've been satisfied with the heating system. Most of the time I have to turn it all the way down. Gets too warm in the cab.

Will your tractor/cab heat up if you start it, then run at an idle if the outside temp is <40? Do you live where it gets cold?

 

[dirtworksequip]

I'll check it in the morning at idle. Air temp should be around 26 to 30 degrees. I'll start it...... then check to see if I have heat at 1 min intervals.