Post frame vs foundation

[buckeyefarmer]

With concrete foundation, I'd stud the walls also.

 

[MacLawn]

Eddie, calling old Eddie....:whistleblower:

That old boy knows his pole building. Me? I don't know much except wha' I like and want. I like the idea of poles on top of concrete pillars, but can't get much love.

 

[LD1]

Them concrete pillars cost almost as much as a foundation and block.

 

[KennyG]

If you build with block on a foundation, do you need to run anchor bolts all the way into the foundation or can you just embed them in the block? Is masonry enough to anchor the block to the foundation?

 

[s219]

If you build with block on a foundation, do you need to run anchor bolts all the way into the foundation or can you just embed them in the block? Is masonry enough to anchor the block to the foundation?

All the block foundations I have seen, the bottom blocks just rest on the footings with some mortar. In the end, the weight of everything will make it stay put. The only place I have seen some extra anchoring is around center sections of a garage wall between overhead doors, and it's often done with galvanized threaded rod that runs from the footing up through the block and then bolts to Simpson brackets that screw to wall studs. I think that is addressing an uplift requirement, but have not read up on the code so can't say for sure.

 

[LD1]

No code here. And never seen what you are talking about with the anchoring between garage doors for uplift. Just the normal j-bolt in a filled core. But there is a "frost wall" under the doors. So basically there is a 4-block full wall that only comes to grade, then the last two courses have the openings. Without the frostwall though, and just a skinny space between doors, I could see the need for something going all the way to the foundation.

 

[s219]

By some miracle, I have pics from our foundation work -- first one shows the threaded rods anchored in the footings:



Then this one shows the rods poking out of the block wall next to door openings (can also see the frost wall below):



I don't have a pic of the hold down brackets and framing, but they look similar to this Simpson product

Cold-Formed Steel: S/HDU Holdowns

Basically, that lags to the king studs adjacent to each door opening (with about a dozen 1/4" Simpson lags) and then bolts to the threaded rod.

At the time, I remember the code requirement was basically to help keep the garage end wall properly planted, since it has very little shear strength.

 

[LD1]

Never seen that done around here.

And the only short wall that I would have similar to that is gonna be between the garage door and the man door. And that space will likely be 3-4ft. in which case I will just rod and fill and install a J-bolt on each end. I think tying to the foundation would be overkill for me.

 

[s219]

Never seen that done around here.

And the only short wall that I would have similar to that is gonna be between the garage door and the man door. And that space will likely be 3-4ft. in which case I will just rod and fill and install a J-bolt on each end. I think tying to the foundation would be overkill for me.

Yeah, not saying it's a must, was just mentioning it in response to Kenney's question up above. The garage wall is the only place I've ever seen the anchors go directly into the footing like that. I did find a pic of the hold down ties:



I did some reading on it just now, and it looks like it was new in the 2009 code (R602.10.3.2) for "portal walls" such as on a garage end wall, to prevent racking from wind loads on the side walls or general seismic loads. Height of the openings comes into play, but in general, if the wall section is greater than 48" wide, sheathing and standard anchors is enough for shear resistance. If narrower than 48" (and narrowest allowed seems to be 16") then anchors down through the footings are required. Our garage portal wall has 5 narrow sections in the 16-24" wide range, which would explain all the anchors. More info here:

Wood Strong-Wall®: Garage Portal Systems on Concrete Foundations

 

[s219]

To get back on topic -- I forgot to add, seeing all the things we go through to add shear strength to framed walls does give one an appreciation for the pole barn method. With the posts 3-4' in the ground, you're already starting with a lot of shear strength and resistance to racking.