Potential power increase for CK2610?

[Trippy1313]

Agreed, would love to see details and long term results

Lol. I didn't think of that one. Long term results are probably more important than just more power....

 

[the old grind]

Two possible results:
1) Operator never taps the extra hp. No difference otherwise at typical rpm and lighter loads, like the mod never happened.
2) Operator does tap the extra hp also operating at typical rpm but a heavier load and WOT. More fuel is burned only when that happens and nothing changes short of it.

There is no comparison here to what happens when a gas engine is modified. (!!) Folks need to stop aSSuming there would be any. If the governor wants/needs more fuel it'll be available. If not required it won't be delivered. The only difference is the highest amount added if/as load demands. No other time, as only the high limit was changed and the governor controls fuel deliver as needed. The 'throttle' only sets what rpm is to be maintained.

Hydro pumps will perform the same as always since max flow and pressure are reached at lower rpm that WOT. Relief pressure can be set higher but even doubling hp won't improve hydro performance, lift, etc. HST pressure won't change with a hp bump either, as it is also set by relief.

 

[Snowlan]

Hydro pumps will perform the same as always since max flow and pressure are reached at lower rpm that WOT. Relief pressure can be set higher but even doubling hp won't improve hydro performance, lift, etc. HST pressure won't change with a hp bump either, as it is also set by relief.

The hydraulics on this Kioti/Bobcat are big, bigger than any other 25hp tractor I found when shopping.

The tractor can easily stall the engine if you drive into a pile and scoop the load at the same time. The loader controls are so touchy it’s easy to be off on your timing a bit. I’ve had to get my foot off the HST quick so the engine would recover when I got it wrong. The power boost will help in this case.

 

[Trippy1313]

The hydraulics on this Kioti/Bobcat are big, bigger than any other 25hp tractor I found when shopping.

The tractor can easily stall the engine if you drive into a pile and scoop the load at the same time. The loader controls are so touchy it’s easy to be off on your timing a bit. I’ve had to get my foot off the HST quick so the engine would recover when I got it wrong. The power boost will help in this case.

That is exactly an issue I have with my bobcat. With the wood chips it fine, but doing gravel or dirt I usually have to drive into a pile, stop then lift. No driving and lifting the heavy stuff at all. If this mod will help with that, I'd totally do it.

 

[LevesqueOnline]

The hydraulics on this Kioti/Bobcat are big, bigger than any other 25hp tractor I found when shopping.

The tractor can easily stall the engine if you drive into a pile and scoop the load at the same time. The loader controls are so touchy it’s easy to be off on your timing a bit. I’ve had to get my foot off the HST quick so the engine would recover when I got it wrong. The power boost will help in this case.

Agreed, I noticed that exact thing on some videos, even 2-3hp could change those characteristics I would think, but I know little about this stuff, why i come here

 

[Dauntless1971]

I had talked with my Kioti salesman about the CK2610, when I was checking out several different compact tractors. He stated once the warranty had ended, he could turn up the pump to 30 hp.

 

[Billrog]

I have stalled my backhoe as well as my tractor going into a pile but it has never been from lifting the loader at the same time. It's from trying to move the whole pile when the bucket isn't tipped and raise in time. At least that's been my observation and experience.

 

[Billrog]

Had the fuel screw explained to me by a very well educated Kioti mechanic he said you can do that but it will void your warranty.
Now that I had a chance to talk to some one who's not only a dealer but worked for Kioti he explained the power increase will not void the warranty because it's just returning the engine back to the power it was designed for. They remove the shim ( or shims ? ) and change the timing which has been detuned to meet HP requirements for no DPF.
He told me it should be done by a dealer or some one that knows what their doing. He also mentioned there are many dealers he wouldn't recommend for even putting air in your tires . So if you choose to do this use your own discretion
as to who does it and there are probably many here who could do their own.
Mines been done and it certainly has plenty of power in all 3 ranges and will climb very steep hills in mid range @ 2,000 rpm though I run it at 2,200 in this situation.

 

[jimglassford]

Since the timing was changed, you will have to let us know how it starts in cold weather. I understand getting more power out of the engine by allowing the fuel rack to move farther under load. I do not understand how injecting fuel earlier in the compression cycle will increase power. I thought the injection timing is set at a critical point where pre-detonation does not occur.

 

[the old grind]

What if the timing is retarded vs advanced? Either way I suspect it's where DIY could be difficult if it's necessary.

 

[Billrog]

Jim I don't know how that works and he explained it real well to me but I leave injection pumps to experts because explaining it doesn't mean i know anything about them.
My machine started in colder than -20 C this winter many times within a couple cranks of the engine. Black smoke and rattling and banging for a couple mins. then all is well. After 15- 20 min. warm up I plowed snow.

 

[Trippy1313]

Yeah interesting. I'm curious if they changed ignition timing too???

I was reading and now understand that shims before or after the fuel pressure pump can advance or ****** fuel injection timing....

But did they only remove shims to advance the fuel timing, or did they also do something to change the ignition timing???

I'm certain likely they didn't mess with the valve timing.

 

[the old grind]

Pump timing vs ignition timing and likely only a very few degrees. Valve events may be different for turbo versions than for NA with the same block. LD1 found out about that with his Kubota. IIRC 'The Fred' (?) didn't need that when he added one.

 

[Billrog]

No valve timing was mentioned. Removing shims and I don't recall mentioning timing. He very well could have as I was interuped when he was telling me. He takes for granted I know more than I do because he's been in my shop and knows I've removed and replaced pumps and adjusted govenors. There's mechanics here I'm sure would understand the processes.

 

[jimglassford]

The CK2610 uses the old inline pump that bolts to the block. There is a fuel cam shaft that actuates each individual fuel injector. The shims go between the pump and the block. There is no in front of or behind. This has nothing to do with the valves in the head. The fuel injection timing is the only thing controlled by the shims. The shims come in different thicknesses. If you remove 0.15 mm of shim/shims, you will advance the injection timing by 1.5 degrees. If you insert 0.15 mm of shims, you ****** the injection timing. The injection event is at 12 degrees before top dead center. The pressure, heat and injection timing dictate ignition. There is no ignition timing like a gasoline engine. In a diesel, the only thing that is controlled is the amount of fuel injected.

The one thing I do not know for sure is if by advancing the timing, (removing shims), do you also extend the injection event.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Keep a GOOD EYE on the temperature gauge..
Extending the burn time (advancing the timing) creates more heat..
and we all know these little engines can not take the heat..
Glad ur happy with the results.. Me personally, would have went with the rack screw..

 

[jimglassford]

So I did some research on the internet with interesting results. And the general consensus is that advancing the timing on a mechanical injection pump will increase the power output. I remember my father adjusting the timing on the old point type gasoline engine where he would advance the spark until the engine would ping then back it off a little. That was if he did not have a timing light.

I may try the same thing on my DK55. I do not need more power but from what I read, as diesels rack up the hours, the timing can get retarded. This could lead to hard starting, smoking at startup and lower performance. The hard starting and smoking on startup are two issues I have been fighting. However, I will not randomly remove shims. I have a few different thickness shims and I will play with the spacing. On the older DK55s the timing mark is on the balancer versus the flywheel so the mark is not as exact.

 

[Billrog]

The dial on the temp. gage on mine has never even reached the midway point at 40 C last summer . The cooling system is excellent.

 

[LevesqueOnline]

Wanted to share some more videos I found on facebook from people who did this.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3288491047869515

also some posts on the kioti facebook tuning group around this, seems everyone is just turning the screw a turn or 2 and mention it is immediately noticeable especially on hills.

 

[Billrog]

That may be the case but wait until your warranty is up .