power beyond flow to 3rd function valve - before vs after the rear-remotes valve?

[orangetree]

I'm installing a power beyond. I'm asking this question from a generic point of view, as I want to understand the hydraulic system as much as I just want to get it done (I find that sort of understanding will pay dividends later). That said, my unit is a ck2610, with factory loader and dual rear-remotes/backhoe.

My question is - most instructions say to put the additional valve in series between the loader and rear remote valves. Clearly this works, but couldn't I also put the new valve in between the rear-remote valve and the ultimate connection to the tank?

• in my tractor, the line between loader<-->RR is the hardest to get to by far; whereas the line from the RR<-->Tank is very accessible.
• The 3rd function valve has the least power requirements of the valves in my loop; shouldn't I prefer to put it _last_ on the power beyond loop, then, as that's where the pressure drop will be the highest?
  • Put differently, all other things equal, putting it in between the loader & RR valves would cause a minor pressure drop to the RR.

Here's how I see the flow. I'm labeling things as to the "location" they go; presumably the "engine" line is the hydraulic pump, and "transmission" is just the Tank reservoir. Note the "T" stamped in the metal is sort of ambiguous which port it refers to. It looks like it is the Power Beyond port; maybe T refers to tank, when no power beyond equip (like my RR's) is installed? Also note, on CK10's the HST is driven by the hydrauilic pump, that's why the pump has 4 hoses.

In my specific unit, here's the LOADER valve, with 7 ports:

• I assume the "to trans" line is JUST the over-pressure valve output? No flow should go through that unless flow is stopped (say cylinder bottoms out), correct?

And for completeness, here's the RR valve. Seems simple enough. Although I am a little confused by a 2nd line going to the transmission housing (partially hidden; upper-right here with green label). Seems like even an OP valve would need pressure-rated tubing? What is this hose used for?

 

[ericm979]

On some loader valves, flow normally goes out the PB port and on to the remotes and 3pt. When you operate the loader valve, flow goes out the tank port to the transmission. Which means that no other valves in the chain will see any flow.

You can add your new valve at the rear remote but in the chain before the rear remote. Or after, if it has a power beyond (I think it does but I'm not 100% sure).

 

[orangetree]

When you operate the loader valve, flow goes out the tank port to the transmission.

By 'removing' the rest of the valves from the PB loop, this would seem to (slightly) increase the power available to the loader; is this the reason / sole-reason for this?

The loader valve does need an overpressure switch. I imagine the OPswitch could share a drain to tank with an intentional ~bypass; where are the over pressure switches usually located?

 

[ericm979]

Most if not all modern loader valves have pressure relief valves on them.

In this valve the pressure relief is under the black topped cover with wrench flats on it on the lower right.

 

[ptsg]

orange tree, On your last picture, you have it labeled wrong. The T marking in Pink you did is right on top of the Power Beyond sleeve. The low pressure rubber hose right on the side is the Tank line, hence the lower pressure hose used.

The original T marking on the valve body can be misleading due to the alternative Tank port on top of it.

 

[orangetree]

orange tree, On your last picture, you have it labeled wrong. The T marking in Pink you did is right on top of the Power Beyond sleeve. The low pressure rubber hose right on the side is the Tank line, hence the lower pressure hose used.

The original T marking on the valve body can be misleading due to the alternative Tank port on top of it.

FWIW, both of these lines dump into the tank, it appears. I'm pointing at the bolt end of the pink/"T" labeled line.

Also, while the tank _might_ be ~near atmospheric pressure it's still on the pressure path ... I can't really imagine that fuel line being used here; even the return would still need to be hydraulic hose & fittings, no?

either way, why are there two lines from the valve to the tank; what's the 2nd one for?

 

[orangetree]

Most if not all modern loader valves have pressure relief valves on them.

In this valve the pressure relief is under the black topped cover with wrench flats on it on the lower right.

isn't there also a port associated with the OP valve? I believe the black-rubber/wrench flats you reference is JUST the sprint unit, correct?

Assuming I have the correct, in my case is that the "To Trans[mission case]" in my Loader valve (1st) picture? And if I did not have any rear-remotes, the power-beyond would run to the transmission as well instead of into the P port on my RR's?

 

[ptsg]

FWIW, both of these lines dump into the tank, it appears. I'm pointing at the bolt end of the pink/"T" labeled line.

Also, while the tank _might_ be ~near atmospheric pressure it's still on the pressure path ... I can't really imagine that fuel line being used here; even the return would still need to be hydraulic hose & fittings, no?

either way, why are there two lines from the valve to the tank; what's the 2nd one for?
View attachment 742854

The hard line goes to the 3 pt control valve, while the soft low pressure line goes to the transmission housing and doesn't have any pressure at all.

That hard line comes out of the power beyond port of the remote valve.

 

[orangetree]

The hard line goes to the 3 pt control valve, while the soft low pressure line goes to the transmission housing and doesn't have any pressure at all.

That hard line comes out of the power beyond port of the remote valve.

that makes sense as I look at it (picture below - 'axle' of the 3PT lever is below the blue cap, and the pink cap is on the speed control knob). i assume the tower w/ lock nuts ~2 inches down and right of the 'T' label in this picture is an OPvalve spring?

regarding what is "T" port, vs "Power Beyond" port - on a given valve, doesn't PB go either to a follow-on/series valve, or to the tank (ending the PB loop?)

 

[orangetree]

spoke to Brandon at WRLong - extremely helpful & seemed equally knowledgeable (as noted in other TBN threads)

W.R. Long viewed installing the 3rd function between RearRemote-->3PTvalve (incorrectly labeled T in my pictures) is 100% viable. He agreed there is a minor pressure drop on any valve so technically this is "slightly better" (although it is probably practically irrelevant since the drop isn't huge).

For me, it's just a heck of a lot easier to access: Here's the pic of a WRLong installed in a CK10 series, and it's TIGHT. And requires removing the wheel (mine is filled with beet juice). And it appears this person had to grind out some metal to get the banjo in ...