POWER SERVICE ADDAITVE ?

[frank_f15]

LIVING UP HERE IN THE NORTHEAST I USUALLY HAVE WINTER BLEND IN the tractor at this time but this year i have a tank full (6.3 gal) of summer blend. so i bout some power service today. Bottle says for MAX winter protectio from gelling add 32 oz to 50 gal. what amt would you suggest for a 6 gal. tank, i came up with 4 oz. and what would happen if you added to much?

 

[Dmace]

For anti-gelling only it is 32 ounces for 100 gallons but they do say you can double that to 32 ounces for every 50 gallons and it works as an octane booster. I would say 4 ounces is the max I would put in. Personally I put 2-3 ounces in my 6 gallon container everytime I fill it up. I only use Power Service in the winter as soon as the temps drop below freezing and I use the same amount in my diesel dump/plow truck year round and never had any problems with gelling or tough starts.

 

[Soundguy]

and it works as an octane booster.

Hmm.... maybee cetane?

as tot he prev's posters question.. 3oz max is what I'd use for that small qty of fuel. In high tech man-measurment terms.. that's a glug-glug.. or about a 1.5s pour

Soundguy

 

[Wayne County Hose]

My oil rep that sells me the Power Service and the Diesel 911 told me that putting in too much won't hurt anything. I don't have a diesel so I have no experience with this, I'm just going by what he said. He hasn't steered me wrong yet. I think I would still at least try to get it close.

He also told me that adding the 911 before the cold snap will prevent the freezing in the lines that commonly occurs. He told me that his customers that do this don't have the freezing issues that the guys that wait until everything is frozen, then try to thaw it. I guess it's the old ounce of prevention law.

 

[Patches]

I use 3.2oz. per 5 gal. can, summer and winter. All this talk of lubrication lack with ULSD makes me think it may be a small price to pay rather than changing injectors and rebuilding injector pumps.I don't use much fuel and this expense is negligible

 

[frank_miller]

My oil rep that sells me the Power Service and the Diesel 911 told me that putting in too much won't hurt anything. I don't have a diesel so I have no experience with this, I'm just going by what he said. He hasn't steered me wrong yet. I think I would still at least try to get it close.

He also told me that adding the 911 before the cold snap will prevent the freezing in the lines that commonly occurs. He told me that his customers that do this don't have the freezing issues that the guys that wait until everything is frozen, then try to thaw it. I guess it's the old ounce of prevention law.

Oil Rep is incorrect. Pull a UOA and you would see high wear levels using these fluids.

For me, these adds are not needed in the NE. I never used them and never needed them in 12 years, using deisels. They are added by the fuel people.

 

[IXLR8]

Here are some threads in a VW diesel forum that might provide some food for thought on the lubrication side of things. I use PS every tank in my car, about 6oz for lubricity and cetane boost, precisely measured at 2 medium glugs per 14 gals.
PS is about 80% diesel fuel from what I have read anyway, although I have not seen any hard and fast data on that. I suspect the only issue with putting in too much is the damage it does to your wallet.

fuel lubricity data- with and without additives. - TDIClub Forums

Spicer's Additive Lubricity Results - TDIClub Forums

 

[frank_miller]

I will again say this, per well respected oil testing people, be very carefull on using too much PS. It will show up in UOA big time. Just like using too much injector cleaner.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I will again say this, per well respected oil testing people, be very carefull on using too much PS. It will show up in UOA big time. Jsut like using too much injector cleaner.

Does it cause fuel dilution of the oil, damage the injectors, is it corrosive, what? Not disagreeing, just hoping for more info.

 

[Dmace]

Hmm.... maybee cetane?

I should have worded that better. I ment it works like an octane booster.

 

[George2615]

I just got a case of PS (white bottle). On the bottle it says to use 32oz for 100 gallon, 24oz - 75 gal., 16oz. - 50 gallon, 8oz. - 25 gallon. I can only guess that 12 1/2 gallon would use 4oz. so 6 1/4 gallon should only require 2oz. It won't hurt to put in a little extra. I usually mix in 4-5oz per 5 gallons which is double what is required.

 

[frank_miller]

Does it cause fuel dilution of the oil, damage the injectors, is it corrosive, what? Not disagreeing, just hoping for more info.

Your wear #'s will be off the scale big time by adding too much.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Your wear #'s will be off the scale big time by adding too much.

Which wear #s, and why? Again, I'm not disagreeing, I just want more info. For wear to increase it must either be diluting the oil or be highly corrosive and not burning inside the combustion chamber. The latter seems unlikely, so, guessing from minimal info, it sounds like it would be diluting the oil. Why? How would it be getting into the oil in the first place?

I have no financial relationship with PS, I just have a couple bottles of their product in my garage which were about to be added to diesel fuel, and I want to know if there's a reason I shouldn't be adding it in this winter.

 

[dmccarty]

I put either Gray/White bottle PS in the tractor fuel. A few years ago a bunch of water go in the fuel. What a mess but it only tooks a couple of hours to fix.

I have owned two diesel trucks since 1995 and neither has been given PS. Just figured the winterized fuel would work and since the truck uses up the fuel every two weeks it would be ok from gelling. While it does not get real cold down here for very long it does get in the teens every once in awhile. Never had a problem in the trucks with gelling.

Its supposed to be in the upper 70s here today so I don't think gelling will be an issue anytime soon. Momma Nature likes to average things out so I bet we are going to get real cold sometime this winter.

Since the tractor can sit for awhile on the same tank of fuel and my earlier water issue every 5 gallons of fuel gets PS. I man measure the same way Soundguy does, a careful couple of glugs.

The truck and tractor get UOA. The only wear item that is showing up on the tractor is silicon. Not at a high level just enough to be noticed. It could be a filter issue but I really don't operate in a dirt dusty environment and the filters are find. It could also be from sealents or gaskets.

There are only a couple UOAs on the tractor and I don't think the lab has seen many Yanmar engines. So there is not a big database on to draw averages. The next oil sample will be interesting.

Later,
Dan

 

[Skyco]

Fuel additives will indeed show up in the oil from blowby, just like soot accumulates in diesel oil, as it too is from blowby.
The only wear metal I've ever seen from PowerService that is higher than normal is copper.
Something in the PS is believed to "leach" copper out of the bearing alloys. I've asked all over and no one can tell me if it is harmful- ie so my copper is a few PPMs high on my 7.3 Powerstroke. Does that mean the bearings will wear out in 500,000 miles when they would have gone 501,000 miles otherwise or is it a major issue
No one seems to know the definitive answer to the question of how much is too much if it is coming from leaching and not actual wear...remember oil can be leaching from all over the bearing material, not just the part the crank rides on...

 

[frank_miller]

Not all fuel adds will show up in UOA ie. Like Lucas will not, Fuel Power+ will not and some others.

I used PS and my copper, lead and some items where through the roof. I stopping using PS, as advise from oil testing people, and all went back to normal.

Your oil testing people, if you select a good company, will tell you if bad or not.

 

[Skyco]

I think ALL fuel additives will show up in oil, they just aren't testing for them The copper from PowerService isn't from the PowerService but is caused by it acting on the copper and lead. To be sure I'm clear the oil analysis labs are detecting the result of the additive not the additive itself
Like you I had high copper in my PSD and stopped using the PowerService for one oil change cycle, and it came down. I still use it but use less of it. The truck definitely runs better with it in there.....when I run out of what I have I'm going to start running a B2 mix instead- unless I have a spot problem where I need the PS.

Added later- here is an interesting read about oil analysis in general and a section about copper in particular-Wear Limits Vs. Trends

 

[john_bud]

I should have worded that better. I ment it works like an octane booster.

Actually, no.

Octane boosters make the fuel burn slower, so there is less "ping" and pre-ignition.

Cetane boosters make the fuel burn faster, so the ignition is easier with cold temps.


The result of either when used correctly, is a better running engine. So in that regard it is correct.


Last winter nearly everyone was gelled up with the USLD fuel. -15F and it was lights out. PS didn't do diddly. Switched to Howes Diesel Treat and for winter use have to give it the nod.

For lubricity, I add 2 cycle oil at a dilution of 150:1 or so.



I think the ingredients in PS are mostly mineral spirits. Not good for lubricity!

jb

 

[cp1969]

For lubricity, I add 2 cycle oil at a dilution of 150:1 or so.

In doing so, you've become an environmental criminal by the laws set by the EPA unless that 2 cycle oil is approved to be added to ULSD. Off to jail with you!

I think the ingredients in PS are mostly mineral spirits. Not good for lubricity!

jb

I think it is petroleum distillate, ie, #1 diesel fuel, aka kerosene.

 

[Z-Michigan]

In doing so, you've become an environmental criminal by the laws set by the EPA unless that 2 cycle oil is approved to be added to ULSD. Off to jail with you!

In the eyes of EPA, we're ALL environmental criminals... I'm waiting for the potholes in my dirt road to be declared federally protected wetlands as "Waters of the United States." Then it will be fun seeing the county road crews get arrested by EPA.