TractorLegend
Platinum Member
i mean "welds"
my spelling looks similar /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
my spelling looks similar /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Pre-Welding for a novice
- Thread starter JasonL
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I am no expert but as I have recently moved into the world of welding I will relay what I have learnt.
I would say it depends what you are planning to weld that makes the differnece as to what tool you get. A MIG (metal inert gas) is traditionally made to weld thinner steels. An ARC welder is for thick steel. TIG is for welding non ferrous metal such as aluminium and stainless. From this you can decide which type you need (bearing in mind ARC with care can also weld thinner metal) or you could go for a all in one machine.
An alternativce is gas welding, a combination of oxygen and acetelene creates a high temp flame (1200oC or ther abouts) and a filler is fed in by hand. This is good on thinner metal. The cost can be realtively high as consumable gas is a tad pricey. This is probably the hardest type of welding to master (bar TIG) but when masterd the other types become easy.
ARC machines are generally the most simple, crating an arc between an earthed peice of mtal and a charged electode. As the charge jumps the small gap (1-5mm) it creates heat and melts the metal. The electrode melts down to provide the filler and the coating is the flux. This is probably the best for a farmer ect who wants to burn though rust and paint and weld 1" material. Prices start about £40 for a cheap (but effective) welder. The only consumable is electrodes which arent too expensive. It isnt too hard to master, you just have to hold the electrode the right distance from the surface as it burns down and move it to fuse the metals together. It will help you master other types better.
MIG is generally for thinner metals but you can weld thicker metals with the larger units. There are 2 consumables, welding wire (the filler) and argoshield (mixture of argon and CO2). It is in effect like arc welding but you simply hold the gun above the metal surface and push the trigger. Wire is fed out to the weld providing the filler automatically and argosheild is released which does the job of flux. It is in effect a really hot glue gun for metal. Very easy to do with good results but can get pricey of ra decent unit and with the 2 consumables.
TIG is similar to arc except the electrode is a solid tungsen bar. The power jumps the gap between that and the grounded work piece creating heat. A filler rod is fed in by hand. This is very hard to do but gives excellnt welds when done nicely and can weld obscure metals. A tad pricey to equip, not for the first timer.
Overall i would go for the arc, unles you are looking to weld thin metals. I bought a £40 buzzbox arc welder and am very impressed. I can make substantial projects and for a very low cost. To start with i would have a go on whichever metod you choose first to see if its for you nad to decide how much you are willing to set aside to buy your equipment.
I hope this information helps you, its what i learnt when in the similar situation to you.
Thanks
I would say it depends what you are planning to weld that makes the differnece as to what tool you get. A MIG (metal inert gas) is traditionally made to weld thinner steels. An ARC welder is for thick steel. TIG is for welding non ferrous metal such as aluminium and stainless. From this you can decide which type you need (bearing in mind ARC with care can also weld thinner metal) or you could go for a all in one machine.
An alternativce is gas welding, a combination of oxygen and acetelene creates a high temp flame (1200oC or ther abouts) and a filler is fed in by hand. This is good on thinner metal. The cost can be realtively high as consumable gas is a tad pricey. This is probably the hardest type of welding to master (bar TIG) but when masterd the other types become easy.
ARC machines are generally the most simple, crating an arc between an earthed peice of mtal and a charged electode. As the charge jumps the small gap (1-5mm) it creates heat and melts the metal. The electrode melts down to provide the filler and the coating is the flux. This is probably the best for a farmer ect who wants to burn though rust and paint and weld 1" material. Prices start about £40 for a cheap (but effective) welder. The only consumable is electrodes which arent too expensive. It isnt too hard to master, you just have to hold the electrode the right distance from the surface as it burns down and move it to fuse the metals together. It will help you master other types better.
MIG is generally for thinner metals but you can weld thicker metals with the larger units. There are 2 consumables, welding wire (the filler) and argoshield (mixture of argon and CO2). It is in effect like arc welding but you simply hold the gun above the metal surface and push the trigger. Wire is fed out to the weld providing the filler automatically and argosheild is released which does the job of flux. It is in effect a really hot glue gun for metal. Very easy to do with good results but can get pricey of ra decent unit and with the 2 consumables.
TIG is similar to arc except the electrode is a solid tungsen bar. The power jumps the gap between that and the grounded work piece creating heat. A filler rod is fed in by hand. This is very hard to do but gives excellnt welds when done nicely and can weld obscure metals. A tad pricey to equip, not for the first timer.
Overall i would go for the arc, unles you are looking to weld thin metals. I bought a £40 buzzbox arc welder and am very impressed. I can make substantial projects and for a very low cost. To start with i would have a go on whichever metod you choose first to see if its for you nad to decide how much you are willing to set aside to buy your equipment.
I hope this information helps you, its what i learnt when in the similar situation to you.
Thanks
Last edited:
Agree with about all you said,,,BUT,,,,,,ONE THING,,,,you are not supposed to weld on rust,,paint,,,or anything else,,,,no matter what process you are using,,,,clean your heat affected zone down to metal,,,shiny metal if possible,,,[and it generally is,,,right??],,,,,why would you want to do other wise,,,you don't want to contaminate your weld puddle,,with anything if you can help it,,,,sometimes,[hardly ever],,,we ain't got a choice,,,but generally we do,,,grind/brush it off before welding with any process.
Second,,,your discription of mig welding,,,,,hot glue gun,,,,well,,,that is exactly what most beginners do with a mig,,,lack of fusion/cold lap is very easy to get with a mig,,,,after a little practice,,most can generaly make half way good looking bead,,,,,but most of the time,,,beauty is only skin deep,,,,you got to turn the heat up to get a good weld with a mig,,,you got to move your gun,,,to pinpoint that little puddle so's it ties in,,,,,now if you're just welding sheet metal,,,well,,not so important,,[for many reasons],,,but you can weld about any thickness steel,,with a mig,,,,,and I'm talking short circuiting method,,,,but you got to know what your doing,,,,,you turn the heat up and move your gun like your supposed to,,and get out of the flat postion,,,it ain't near as easy anymore,,,,,
lastly,,,you say it ain't to hard to master [stick welding],,,,,hummm,,,,,tell that to a pipewelder,,,who makes x-ray quality welds every day,,,if you do finally ABOUT get it MASTERED,,,you can expect to earn about 30 bucks an hr,,,or more,,,for your troubles,,,,course thats if you ABOUT get it mastered,,,, but yeah,,,would recommend any newbie getting a stick rod machine,,,,get one that puts out dirrect current,,,,d.c.e.p.,,,[direct current electrode positive],,runs a lot better than a.c.,[alternating current],,on steel,,,,you can get little dia. rods for thin stuff,,[smaller dia. takes this current to run,,thus,less heat],,,,and some bigger dia. for thicker stuff,,,you need a machine that will at least burn a 1/8" dia. rod,,,all day long,,,,,thats where DUTY CYCLE of machine comes in,,,duty cycle is generally considered how many min out of 10 it will continuasly run at a given amperage,,with out over heating machine,,,,important for all welding machines,,,a little less so with stick machines than say a mig,,,,but another thing to consider when buying,,,,,,,thingy
Second,,,your discription of mig welding,,,,,hot glue gun,,,,well,,,that is exactly what most beginners do with a mig,,,lack of fusion/cold lap is very easy to get with a mig,,,,after a little practice,,most can generaly make half way good looking bead,,,,,but most of the time,,,beauty is only skin deep,,,,you got to turn the heat up to get a good weld with a mig,,,you got to move your gun,,,to pinpoint that little puddle so's it ties in,,,,,now if you're just welding sheet metal,,,well,,not so important,,[for many reasons],,,but you can weld about any thickness steel,,with a mig,,,,,and I'm talking short circuiting method,,,,but you got to know what your doing,,,,,you turn the heat up and move your gun like your supposed to,,and get out of the flat postion,,,it ain't near as easy anymore,,,,,
lastly,,,you say it ain't to hard to master [stick welding],,,,,hummm,,,,,tell that to a pipewelder,,,who makes x-ray quality welds every day,,,if you do finally ABOUT get it MASTERED,,,you can expect to earn about 30 bucks an hr,,,or more,,,for your troubles,,,,course thats if you ABOUT get it mastered,,,, but yeah,,,would recommend any newbie getting a stick rod machine,,,,get one that puts out dirrect current,,,,d.c.e.p.,,,[direct current electrode positive],,runs a lot better than a.c.,[alternating current],,on steel,,,,you can get little dia. rods for thin stuff,,[smaller dia. takes this current to run,,thus,less heat],,,,and some bigger dia. for thicker stuff,,,you need a machine that will at least burn a 1/8" dia. rod,,,all day long,,,,,thats where DUTY CYCLE of machine comes in,,,duty cycle is generally considered how many min out of 10 it will continuasly run at a given amperage,,with out over heating machine,,,,important for all welding machines,,,a little less so with stick machines than say a mig,,,,but another thing to consider when buying,,,,,,,thingy
SkyPup
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I recently purchased a Millermatic 210 MIG (220V) and a Miller Spectrum 375 Plasma Cutter (220V) for my shop. With these two machines I can handle virtually any thickness metal on my cars, trucks, and tractors as the thickest piece of steel I've measured yet on any of them is 3/8".
Read some good welding books of the various welding processes from the bookstore and then get together with some friends that have experience welding and can help you practice. That will help get you going fast.
Read some good welding books of the various welding processes from the bookstore and then get together with some friends that have experience welding and can help you practice. That will help get you going fast.
Thingy, you are 100% correct in what you say. But....
I weld through rust. If a welder couldnt I wouldnt buy it. I make functional unpretty things and therfore dont scrub off rust and paint. It welds up good but dont look so good, suits me. I know youre not supposed to, but I go for function and ease.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Can someone explain the basics? )</font>
Were talking basics here. I think X-ray quality is a bit extreme. Were taking welding 2 peices of metal so they become 1.
I put this in a way that gets across the ideas, the MIG glue gun was just a way of explaining it, now I know the processes are totally different but it gets across the basic idea pretty well I thought.
As to duty cycle, if 60% aint good enough for your home user needs you need to slow down and take more breaks. it never troubles me, if it overheats its time for a cup of tea! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Either way, this Gentleman is asking about the basics of welding, although we havent yet been told of the application im fairly sure we arent going to need to recommend $1000's of equipment suitable for your seasoned professional. Asi realted at the top of my post, when I was in a similar situation to what I interpret this gentlemans to be this was the advice that was offered to me and I believe I have been sucessful in my entry into welding based on this advice.
Thanks
I weld through rust. If a welder couldnt I wouldnt buy it. I make functional unpretty things and therfore dont scrub off rust and paint. It welds up good but dont look so good, suits me. I know youre not supposed to, but I go for function and ease.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Can someone explain the basics? )</font>
Were talking basics here. I think X-ray quality is a bit extreme. Were taking welding 2 peices of metal so they become 1.
I put this in a way that gets across the ideas, the MIG glue gun was just a way of explaining it, now I know the processes are totally different but it gets across the basic idea pretty well I thought.
As to duty cycle, if 60% aint good enough for your home user needs you need to slow down and take more breaks. it never troubles me, if it overheats its time for a cup of tea! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Either way, this Gentleman is asking about the basics of welding, although we havent yet been told of the application im fairly sure we arent going to need to recommend $1000's of equipment suitable for your seasoned professional. Asi realted at the top of my post, when I was in a similar situation to what I interpret this gentlemans to be this was the advice that was offered to me and I believe I have been sucessful in my entry into welding based on this advice.
Thanks
Well,,,as a professional,,,it gets me when it is recommened to a beginner that it is fine and normal to not clean your heat affected zone before welding,,,its one of the basics,,,you clean it IF you can,,,[and 95 percent of time,,,you can],,,,and the x-ray remark,,,was brought up because you said you could pretty fast MASTER the art of stick welding,,,,course it all depends on what you mean by master,,,,,my idea is to pass a pipe test in 45 degree fixed postion,,,up and down hill,,on mild steel,,stainless steel,,inconel,,,etc,,,,heavy and light wall pipe,,,and than get it to pass an x-ray test,,,your idea is different,,maybe,,,,,,,and the mig being compared to a hot glue gun is exactlly how most home welders use it,,,might be alright for a lawn mower or something,,but wouldn't want to be pulling a trailer made with that idea in the makers head,,,,thats all,,,,,,,not trying to give you a hard time,,,just stating some facts,,,,thingy
johnday
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40Kchicks; Now we know who has the bucks on this site. That ESAB is one fine machine. At this point it's one of those dream machines, but if I get real good at saving my nickels and dimes...... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
OP
JasonL
Silver Member
Mith-- I really appreciate your help. You explained everything well. Basically, I am a carpenter/woodworker, that is planning to build my own home. I Bought some land. Then I bought a tractor. Then I got some implements. Then I wanted to improve on them. Then I realized I need to learn to weld. So- I need the basics, however, I don't like to limit myself (my money or lack thereof usely does) so I want to get something versatile. My wife thinks I am setting the house back years with all my toys! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif She's probably right, but I just can't help myself! THANKS Jason
Spiffy
Veteran Member
If you are looking for truely versatile; I'd second my earlier post and say start with the Oxy-Actelylene [with several welding tips and a cutting head]; it's entirely portable too. You can weld a pretty good range of thickness [thought not the ease of MIG on real thin nor the penatration of DC on real thick]; also you may be amazed how many things are better brazed than welded. Since I bought a Sawzall, the cutting torch doesn't get used as much, but sometimes you still can't beat it.
Your biggest expense would be tank purchase, but I'm thinking you should be able to find a good rental contract to keep things cheap.
I wouldn't actually say welding with a torch is the most difficult per se, but you move much slower [in the "forward" direction anyway] than stick or mig and there is an art to adding filler metal. For someone with no prior bad habits, the slower rate does have the advantage of letting you really see what is happening at the weld.
I'd add a stick and wirefeed when you get the chance or need. Or I too drool over the high end combination units, but too many cheaper toys are still on my list. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
BTW I can get some pretty decent looking welds on any of the above...about the time I'm finished with the project! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Your biggest expense would be tank purchase, but I'm thinking you should be able to find a good rental contract to keep things cheap.
I wouldn't actually say welding with a torch is the most difficult per se, but you move much slower [in the "forward" direction anyway] than stick or mig and there is an art to adding filler metal. For someone with no prior bad habits, the slower rate does have the advantage of letting you really see what is happening at the weld.
I'd add a stick and wirefeed when you get the chance or need. Or I too drool over the high end combination units, but too many cheaper toys are still on my list. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
BTW I can get some pretty decent looking welds on any of the above...about the time I'm finished with the project! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Soundguy
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Thingy, you are 100% correct in what you say. But....
)</font>
Myth.. as most of us have found out.. you're pretty much just exercising yer jaw with thingy..... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I weld through rust. If a welder couldnt I wouldnt buy it. I make functional unpretty things and therfore dont scrub off rust and paint. )</font>
I 100% agree. For the average 'farmer' welding jobs.. a big honkin ac buzzbox and a beefy electrode will do the job.. no matter it it has 1/16 coat of paint over a rusty surface. You get soooo much penetration.. that the first bit of arc is blown / burned off like splatter and floats to the top of the puddle like flux and slag anyway.
The bigger migs can do that.. but in general.. for 'rough duty / bad environment welding... stick is hard to beat.
The best part about it is being able to swap electrodes out for different work.. you aren't tied to a single 'catch-all ' spool for each job.
For sheet metal work, I buy a brand of 1/16 and 5/64 rod called surestrike.. I'd swear that you could strike an arc and draw a bead on a wet piece of cardboard with those rods... great for beginners too, as they are very hard to make stick.
Soundguy
)</font>
Myth.. as most of us have found out.. you're pretty much just exercising yer jaw with thingy..... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I weld through rust. If a welder couldnt I wouldnt buy it. I make functional unpretty things and therfore dont scrub off rust and paint. )</font>
I 100% agree. For the average 'farmer' welding jobs.. a big honkin ac buzzbox and a beefy electrode will do the job.. no matter it it has 1/16 coat of paint over a rusty surface. You get soooo much penetration.. that the first bit of arc is blown / burned off like splatter and floats to the top of the puddle like flux and slag anyway.
The bigger migs can do that.. but in general.. for 'rough duty / bad environment welding... stick is hard to beat.
The best part about it is being able to swap electrodes out for different work.. you aren't tied to a single 'catch-all ' spool for each job.
For sheet metal work, I buy a brand of 1/16 and 5/64 rod called surestrike.. I'd swear that you could strike an arc and draw a bead on a wet piece of cardboard with those rods... great for beginners too, as they are very hard to make stick.
Soundguy
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JasonL,
With all this good advice, you soon be able to fix anything from the liberty bell to broken heart /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
My father just upgraded and sold me his century welder. I'm no expert, I've only done one weld, but its as adictive as woodworking. (I have about 25K worth of rarely used woodworking tools in my shop!) Since the welder, I've purchased a chop saw and finally set up my bench grinder.
BTW, for all you molten metal heads, my welder has the gas bottle and the wire feed, and thats about all I know, kinda scary, huh? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
With all this good advice, you soon be able to fix anything from the liberty bell to broken heart /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
My father just upgraded and sold me his century welder. I'm no expert, I've only done one weld, but its as adictive as woodworking. (I have about 25K worth of rarely used woodworking tools in my shop!) Since the welder, I've purchased a chop saw and finally set up my bench grinder.
BTW, for all you molten metal heads, my welder has the gas bottle and the wire feed, and thats about all I know, kinda scary, huh? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Soundguy
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You are a real piece of work... commas and all.
Soundguy
Soundguy
Spiffy
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OK, Thingy, now you have me confused.
I'm guessing you must be in some some very specialized and fault sensitive construction [chemical plants or something?] talking about Xray inspection, certifications on various pipe materials in various positions....and now, adamant about reverse polarity [DCEP]. That's stricter than the bridge shop I once worked in [everyone can relax; I never did any of the certified welding].
Reverse should drive some contaminants to the surface like AC does, and, depending upon your welding techniques, will give deeper penatration in most situations [I guess the rules change for TIG, but, unfortunately, overdosing on caffiene is the closest I get to being a Tigger]; anyway straight polarity can be used on steel. Essentially what I'm saying is that to state "always DCEP for steel" in this situation, he may as well go "buzz-box".
I think cleaning whenever posible is a great recommendation; but in all honesty, the reverse polarity or AC will forgive some bad habits [espcially if nobody is going to Xray your weld].
A good welder [espcially with good equiment] wouldn't have trouble with rods sticking; though I sometimes can hold an arc at 40A AC with E6013s, under 75A AC, I really should find some of those rods Soundguy has. If fancy equipment can't make up for some user faults; special rods may as well! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Anyway, if we're still talking "cheap, quick, and dirty [dirty: mostly figuratively, but let's allow a little contamination here]", the buzz-box would be step one, then one can augment with other toys or step up to a universal machine. If "versatile" is the real key word [assuming fairly cheap too]; I'm sticking with the Oxy-acetylene as step 1.
Now, Thingy, can you explain the comma "thing" to me?! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I'm guessing you must be in some some very specialized and fault sensitive construction [chemical plants or something?] talking about Xray inspection, certifications on various pipe materials in various positions....and now, adamant about reverse polarity [DCEP]. That's stricter than the bridge shop I once worked in [everyone can relax; I never did any of the certified welding].
Reverse should drive some contaminants to the surface like AC does, and, depending upon your welding techniques, will give deeper penatration in most situations [I guess the rules change for TIG, but, unfortunately, overdosing on caffiene is the closest I get to being a Tigger]; anyway straight polarity can be used on steel. Essentially what I'm saying is that to state "always DCEP for steel" in this situation, he may as well go "buzz-box".
I think cleaning whenever posible is a great recommendation; but in all honesty, the reverse polarity or AC will forgive some bad habits [espcially if nobody is going to Xray your weld].
A good welder [espcially with good equiment] wouldn't have trouble with rods sticking; though I sometimes can hold an arc at 40A AC with E6013s, under 75A AC, I really should find some of those rods Soundguy has. If fancy equipment can't make up for some user faults; special rods may as well! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Anyway, if we're still talking "cheap, quick, and dirty [dirty: mostly figuratively, but let's allow a little contamination here]", the buzz-box would be step one, then one can augment with other toys or step up to a universal machine. If "versatile" is the real key word [assuming fairly cheap too]; I'm sticking with the Oxy-acetylene as step 1.
Now, Thingy, can you explain the comma "thing" to me?! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Well,,,,,,,,,if your confused,,,I didn't make you that way,,,,and just cause you don't know something doesn't mean your confused,just means you don't know,,,,,and yes,,,,I am in the welding racket professionally,,,,,,,,and have worked in chemical plants,,,and have also worked in steel fab shops,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,now,,,,,,,,,lets look at the numbers on an electrode,,,,lets take e-7018 for example,,,the e stands for electrode,,,the first two numbers are for minimum tesile strength times 1,000, in psi,,the third number indicates what postion you can weld with it,,,1 = all postions,,,,2 = horazontal and flat,,,etc,,,,,,the last number in this case indicates the kind of coating on rod and what current manufactor says can be used,,,in this case,,the manufactor is saying you can use a.c. or d.c.r.p,,,,,now if it would have been a 3 instead of 8 than manufactor is saying it will work with a.c.,,,,d.c.e.n,,,,or d.c.e.p,,,,,,now if it had been a 0 than manufactor is saying just d.c.r.p.,,,,,,now we know what the numbers mean,,,,,,,but having said all that,,,it is common knowledge,,that most rods for steel will run better on d.c. than a.c.,,even if manufactor says they can be run on a.c.,,,like a e-7018 for example,,,and it is also common knowledge that most will run better on d.c.e.p. than on d.c.e.n,,,even though manufactor says it can be run on d.c.e.n.,,,,,,,,there are a few exceptions ,,, e-6013 for example,,is generally considered an a.c. rod,,,and might even run better on a.c.,,,its the a.c. buzz box rod,,,,,,,,,but its the exception,,not the rule,,,,,,,,,,,so about all electrodes run much better on d.c. than a.c.,,,,,fact,,,,,,,and many electrodes just will not do it on a.c.,,,,cause they are not made for a.c.,,,fact,,,,,,,and its safe to say,,,all rods made for d.c. will run much better on d.c.r.p. than on d.c.s.p......its another fact that d.c.r.p. will allow more penatration than d.c.s.p,,and both more than a.c.,,,,,,,and as far as a.c. cleaning better or something,,,,in stick welding,,,hummm,,,,,,,,you really don't need a rod to clean your metal for you,,,your supposed to clean it before you weld it,,,,,,,,and if it don't penatrate as much,,or weld as good with,,,,,kinda defeating the purpose,,,huh??? Just look up what alternating current is,,,,,and you will see,,it alternates,and if your trying to melt steel,generally thats not as good as direct current,,,,in theory,,on all the time,,,,,,,,thingy
Jason, sorry about your thread.
Soundguy. Yep. Im Mith, very much real, not just a Myth. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Thingy, were not welding pros, its Tractorbynet.com, not perfectweldersbynet.com.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( it all depends on what you mean by master )</font>
It does. Seeming as we are not (mostly) professional welders I believe that the meaning I was using corresponds to that of many people here. Also if I alert you to the thread title </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Pre-Welding for a novice )</font>
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( exactlly how most home welders use it )</font>
I personally find this statement wrong and poorly thought out. Just as we are not pros doesnt mean we have no idea what we are doing. As to the MIG, you cannot deny that that is a good way to intoduce it visually, it bares no resemblence to its use, note I went on to explain it further.
Anyway, im sorry that we are not the utmost perfection of welders and we dont do everything the way a professional welder would. I will be sure to call on your services for advice next time I need to do a X-ray quality weld if that OK.
1 question though. What does TIG stand for, I cant remember, Tungsten Inert Gas maybe?
This is my last reply to this thread, thankyou.
LBrown, you have competition. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Soundguy. Yep. Im Mith, very much real, not just a Myth. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Thingy, were not welding pros, its Tractorbynet.com, not perfectweldersbynet.com.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( it all depends on what you mean by master )</font>
It does. Seeming as we are not (mostly) professional welders I believe that the meaning I was using corresponds to that of many people here. Also if I alert you to the thread title </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Pre-Welding for a novice )</font>
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( exactlly how most home welders use it )</font>
I personally find this statement wrong and poorly thought out. Just as we are not pros doesnt mean we have no idea what we are doing. As to the MIG, you cannot deny that that is a good way to intoduce it visually, it bares no resemblence to its use, note I went on to explain it further.
Anyway, im sorry that we are not the utmost perfection of welders and we dont do everything the way a professional welder would. I will be sure to call on your services for advice next time I need to do a X-ray quality weld if that OK.
1 question though. What does TIG stand for, I cant remember, Tungsten Inert Gas maybe?
This is my last reply to this thread, thankyou.
LBrown, you have competition. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
I relize most people hear are not welding experts,,,,,if you read my first post in this thread,,,you will see that I treated it that way,,,,,,,the man was asking basic stuff,,,so thats the way I went,,,,,,,BUT others started telling him the how to part,,,and some of the info needed to be corrected,,,,,,the way you learn anything is the right way,,,,,,,for instance,,,if your reading teacher in 1st grade could barely read themselfs,,,its not good for the little students,,,,,,for instance,,telling the man that he really didn't need to clean the weld area prior to welding,,,,,,,,well,,,thats not the way you teach somebody,,,,you got to learn the basics,,,and go from there,,,for instance,,,telling the man to use d.c.e.n. if using direct current,,,,,,,,,and suming up m.i.g. welding as a hot glue gun,,,,don't you see thats why all these little mig welders are sold,,,,,,,,cause thats how many feel about them,,,,,,but,,,as I've tried to explain above,,,,,,if you learn to use the g.m.a.w. process correctly,,,,,it is anything but a hot glue gun process,,,,now,,,,,if I ruffeled a few of you guys feathers,,,well,,,,,let me put it this way,,,,,,if we was talking lets say,,,mechanic work,,,,,and I was giving my two cents worth,,[cause thats all it would be worth in this case],,,,and mr. goodwrench got on here and tried helping out,,,,well,,,,I wouldn't get upset at him,,,,,,would maybe try and learn something about the mechanical problem we was talking about,,,,,,get it,,,,now thats just me,,,,,,,,,,G.T.A.W.......it stands for gas tungsten arc welding,,,,,,t.i.g.,,which would mean,,tungsten inert gas,,, is just short for that,,,,,,like m.i.g. is short for gas metal arc welding,,,,like stick is short [in a different way] for s.m.a.w.,,,,,which stands for shielded metal arc welding,,,,like flux core,,,,is short for f.c.a.w..which stands for fluxed core arc welding,,,,,etc.,,,,etc...the thing
Spiffy
Veteran Member
<font color="blue"> I am in the welding racket professionally </font>
Thanks for clearing things up Thingy. Actually, since I guessed you did some sort of finicky stuff, I was confused about how to parallel your experience to the question at hand, not the actual question! I still don't understand the commas. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Anyway, I'm with you on bad habits sticking harder than undercut slag [I have both, the former sometimes causes the latter! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif ]. But I don't think Mith [Myth! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif] or Soundguy were offbase saying that acceptable [yes, application can make this a real vaque term] welds can be had under less than ideal conditions and with less than ideal equipment.
Both the red "tombstone" and "R2D2" cost me only new cables. Don't know about prices; but if in the same ballpark; the AC/DC would be a no-brainer. And if $$$ were no problem; oh boy: AC/DC/MIG/TIG;sub-arc; plasma cutter;.....no wait, I'd pay somebody with a steadier hand than mine to weld /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif....I suppose freight to Thingy would be to slow for my impatience though. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Anyway, the classes or working with friends who are proffesionals [they may have some odd habits too though!] are still great ideas. And all the other info here stikes truth too, irronically even the completely polar statements from Thingy and Soundguy & Mith (all application and whether it [or your personal taste] can afford to be wrong)...heck even my hairbrained points have some truth [if you're slightly masochistic anyway]. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Get the best equiment for the money you're willing to part with and enjoy it. "A stitch in time" may apply here, but if you're talking "hobby farm" uses, you may or may not care. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Thanks for clearing things up Thingy. Actually, since I guessed you did some sort of finicky stuff, I was confused about how to parallel your experience to the question at hand, not the actual question! I still don't understand the commas. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Anyway, I'm with you on bad habits sticking harder than undercut slag [I have both, the former sometimes causes the latter! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif ]. But I don't think Mith [Myth! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif] or Soundguy were offbase saying that acceptable [yes, application can make this a real vaque term] welds can be had under less than ideal conditions and with less than ideal equipment.
Both the red "tombstone" and "R2D2" cost me only new cables. Don't know about prices; but if in the same ballpark; the AC/DC would be a no-brainer. And if $$$ were no problem; oh boy: AC/DC/MIG/TIG;sub-arc; plasma cutter;.....no wait, I'd pay somebody with a steadier hand than mine to weld /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif....I suppose freight to Thingy would be to slow for my impatience though. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Anyway, the classes or working with friends who are proffesionals [they may have some odd habits too though!] are still great ideas. And all the other info here stikes truth too, irronically even the completely polar statements from Thingy and Soundguy & Mith (all application and whether it [or your personal taste] can afford to be wrong)...heck even my hairbrained points have some truth [if you're slightly masochistic anyway]. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Get the best equiment for the money you're willing to part with and enjoy it. "A stitch in time" may apply here, but if you're talking "hobby farm" uses, you may or may not care. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
You guys are funny,,,,,,you keep writing me and mentioning my name and "quoting" me,,,but want to get back to........the issue...........pot calling the kettle,,,,,here's some advice,,,,quit writing me quotin me and ,,and I'll shut up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,on THIS thread,,,said all I need to say anyways,,,,,,,,,,,,,but will be reading these welding topics,,,and give advice as needed,,,IF I feel like it,,,,,most times when I read these don't get involved,,,but might in future more since it really seems to upset 2 or 3 people so bad,,,,,,and by the way,,,,,,,all the comma's are to get you to ask,,,,"why all the commas",see,,,,,,,,,,it works,,,,the thing
