Private Road Matter

[flyingcow]

Often a developer will build a road(s)- with all the required sidewalks, storm drains, etc-, then deed it over to the township, so the municipality will do the maintenance (snow removal, pot hole repair, etc).

Your situation sounds convoluted enough to warrant an attorney.

+1... You might be gettin' rolled

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Google "easement types" and read the seven different ways easements can be created in Wikipedia. Only one is an express easement by private agreement.

Granted, this may not be complete or very good authority, but it would be enough to send me to an attorney's office to find out what is what in my state of affairs as others have suggested.

 

[hawkeye08]

Don't let them do anything on your land until you fully understand it all. We had some issues with our property (no easements, no right of ways) when the neighbor decided to use some of our property for road and cul de sac. Their surveyor had easements and right of ways on the survey for our land that did NOT exist. The county said it was a done deal, we said it is NOT a done deal, we have NOT agreed to any of it.

Bottom line, no road or cul de sac was built on our property. It would have been if we had not gone in and stopped it. The lesson I learned was that there are developers that do whatever they want, including lying.

 

[flyingcow]

Don't let them do anything on your land until you fully understand it all. We had some issues with our property (no easements, no right of ways) when the neighbor decided to use some of our property for road and cul de sac. Their surveyor had easements and right of ways on the survey for our land that did NOT exist. The county said it was a done deal, we said it is NOT a done deal, we have NOT agreed to any of it.

Bottom line, no road or cul de sac was built on our property. It would have been if we had not gone in and stopped it. The lesson I learned was that there are developers that do whatever they want, including lying.

+1 again. It may seem expensive at first, but get a top notch lawyer.

 

[kidkioti]

Are these facts correct?
a) Multiple tract owners, including you, were using a private road (old road) to enter a public highway five years ago.
b)State officials told everyone to stop using the old road and build a new access road to the highway.
c) New access road was partially constructed, and is presumably being used instead of the old road.
d) Now someone now wants to finish the construction of the new private road and include a portion of your property in the new private road expansion/completion.
e) There is no existing maintenance agreement relative to the upkeep of either the old road or the new private road.

Are the tracts platted into a subdivision (filed with the county records), or are they simply divided tracts conveyed to individual owners by metes and bounds descriptions? Are there deed restrictions or covenants in your deed? If so, is there a homeowners association?

In the beginning, here in rural Pa, all the residents had right of way out from their properties to the state highway using a private road that was in existence for 75 + years.

In brief - Original private road was closed and an alternative way out had to be found. As you determined The alternate road has not been fully completed. One of the residents owned most of the land that this road was constructed. Another resident had agreed to the use of his land for part of the project.

I had approved a section of property of mine that could be used at the time, but it was determined that due to runoff and drainage problems it could not be used. This is the property that the other resident wants the contractor to come back and use for expansion. I doubt that will benefit him or the other residents.

With that said - there is a maintenance agreement for the old private road. The new road has not been completed. I heard today that the original contractor will be coming back to finish putting in drop boxes, and some other incidentals. But I've heard this now for 5 years. Than the road will be surveyed and some type of maintenance agreement drawn up. Than I presume recorded for posterity.

Not sure just what the outcome will be, but of the 1/2 mile of construction nearly completed, the exception of a couple of the dropboxes?? some non grade & expansion?? I'm not sure what they expect the contractor to be able to do to complete the job with 1200 dollars left??

Sorry to be so lengthy. All the residents plats, indentures, have been recorded in county. Hope that this helps somewhat to answer some of your questions. KK

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Observations:

Somebody gained land by abandoning the old road. Somebody lost land to building new road. Those would be the natural parties to balance their gains and losses somehow.

Old maintenance agreement might be best precedent for terms of the maintenance agreement on the new road.

The "developer's lying to residents" reference above is true. Get anything he says in writing if you can.

 

[rmully]

Don't forget the one basic rule..."Get it in writing"

 

[kidkioti]

Part of the private driveway that was closed is on my property. It is approx 170 ft long runs close to my neighbors property line separated by from 1 to 7 ft of my property on the other side of the old private drive that borders his. It ends in a dead end.

The neighbor insists that he has the right to use this old private drive even though it is now abandoned since 2004. There is a right of way to his property and home on his property but he enjoys the convenience of using the old private drive that goes through my property to ingress and egress to his property. He claims he has the right to do so.

With that said, the property the neighbors would like to use to have the new road widened belongs to me. I have not provided any right of way for that as yet. Is there someway I can get an agreement of right away release to the private abandoned driveway, from the neighbors, that run through my property? What may be some other alternatives or course of action to take?

I love my neighbors and I would like to help them get this new private road widened, and the additional improvements completed. However ??? Thank you for your patience, understanding and all your input so far, concerning this matter. KK

 

[2manyrocks]

These things are complicated, especially with multiple owners involved and with relocating a previous road to a new location.

What you are required to do probably depends on what the maintenance agreement says--there may be some vague things in there that you'll do X in exchange for access on the new road, but the "devil is in the details" which may have not been spelled out very clearly.

The lawyer might have figured out he would spend a lot of time trying to work out details for which he'd have trouble collecting $$$ for and maybe that is why he's not so eager to be involved. Could be other reasons, but that is my first guess.

 

[AGGIE00]

It would probably be a good start to get a new survey of your property to show any existing easements.

 

[johnrex62]

The neighbor insists that he has the right to use this old private drive even though it is now abandoned since 2004. There is a right of way to his property and home on his property but he enjoys the convenience of using the old private drive that goes through my property to ingress and egress to his property. He claims he has the right to do so.

As long as the easement is still valid, then he probably does still have the right to use it. As far as I can tell from what you have posted, it is only the access to the public roads from this private road that was terminated causing this new road to be required.

With that said, the property the neighbors would like to use to have the new road widened belongs to me. I have not provided any right of way for that as yet. Is there someway I can get an agreement of right away release to the private abandoned driveway, from the neighbors, that run through my property? What may be some other alternatives or course of action to take?

All things are negotiable when there is a need. You can take a hard line and require the old easement be released in exchange for the new one. Might make at least one neighbor upset, but how bad does that neighbor need the new roadway expansion?

 

[kidkioti]

As long as the easement is still valid, then he probably does still have the right to use it. As far as I can tell from what you have posted, it is only the access to the public roads from this private road that was terminated causing this new road to be required.

All things are negotiable when there is a need. You can take a hard line and require the old easement be released in exchange for the new one. Might make at least one neighbor upset, but how bad does that neighbor need the new roadway expansion?

He may have the right to use the old private dead-end drive, but would that give him the right to drive across my strip of property between his land and the old private drive to access his property? He seems to think so!

Your point is well taken. At this time I don't plan on granting a right of way to the new expansion until I speak to an attorney in a couple of days concerning this matter. KK

 

[riptides]

He may have the right to use the old private dead-end drive, but would that give him the right to drive across my strip of property between his land and the old private drive to access his property? He seems to think so!

Your point is well taken. At this time I don't plan on granting a right of way to the new expansion until I speak to an attorney in a couple of days concerning this matter. KK

So his lot is now land locked with the dead-end drive? In my part of the country that would not be allowed to happen, and your lot would be burdened with at least an ingress/egress easement to allow passage.

Good thing your getting a lawyer, easements are IMHO - horribly messy.

 

[kidkioti]

So his lot is now land locked with the dead-end drive? In my part of the country that would not be allowed to happen, and your lot would be burdened with at least an ingress/egress easement to allow passage.

I didn't explain it very well. This does not hinder his ingress/egress easement to the new private road that goes passed his driveway. He just considers the old private drive as his, to access his property while driving over my property. kk

 

[Car Doc]

He just considers the old private drive as his, to access his property while driving over my property. kk

His lawyer may claim right of adverse possession if he has used the old road for over 14 years.

If he hasn't and there is a new and improved access you probably have a good chance of getting him off but I am only going by what I learned in my law suit about easements.

He will cry like a baby and judges fall for that victim stuff so stay tuff.

 

[teg]

His lawyer may claim right of adverse possession if he has used the old road for over 14 years.

If he hasn't and there is a new and improved access you probably have a good chance of getting him off but I am only going by what I learned in my law suit about easements.

He will cry like a baby and judges fall for that victim stuff so stay tuff.

:thumbsup:

 

[riptides]

I didn't explain it very well. This does not hinder his ingress/egress easement to the new private road that goes passed his driveway. He just considers the old private drive as his, to access his property while driving over my property. kk

Sorry, I am probably not comprehending very well. How did he get to his property in the first place if the "old" driveway never platted to his land?

I would push for vacating the "old" ingress/egress easement since it appears a "new" one is now in the works.

Seems like you are now burdened with easements.

Unfortunate, easements and lawyers go hand in hand.

 

[kidkioti]

Sorry, I am probably not comprehending very well. How did he get to his property in the first place if the "old" driveway never platted to his land?

I would push for vacating the "old" ingress/egress easement since it appears a "new" one is now in the works.

Seems like you are now burdened with easements.

Unfortunate, easements and lawyers go hand in hand.

Not very good at this but I hope I can explain . The right of way to his house & property that he now owns, was established 1965 when the original property owners had a right of way granted to them off the old driveway that is now being used as part of the new driveway.

If you can picture the current set up something like a T. The top of the T is now the new driveway and part of the old driveway that is being used. And The original and current owner's right of way for the property and all that have owned it before the drive closing. The bottom is now the section is now closed and a dead end. I'm trying to get my material together to present to the attorney. I don't believe its going to be an easy solution when they get their heads together. KK

 

[Car Doc]

Easements are a mess no doubt and I am not kidding get a good lawyer that specializes in property.

All lawyers know easements 101 but it will take an expert to get rid of it.

I am almost convinced most lawyers believe in the guys rights to the easement rather than the guys rights that owns and pays taxes on it I am not joking one bit.

Most lawyers I ran across wouldn't touch easement law with a 10' pole lucky I have a good one thats also a friend!!!

edit: everything has a price IE this chuck of land you own you may end up "buying" back as messed up as that sounds that is the way it may turn out just keep that in mind if you and this guy can come to terms it may be less than a court pizzin match?

Let him have just that chunk he is driving across (I am assuming its a small corner?) pay half of the survey etc and title fees etc there are lots of ways to deal with land owners being nice is the BEST way. wink of course that works both ways

 

[dmccarty]

If you have easement issues that are leading to talking with lawyers, search TBN for MBARB's long discussion about his situation.

He lost and it cost him $100,000.

If you have an easement issue, you need a good lawyer. But also take the long view and do not cut off your nose to spite your face.

Later,
Dan