Problems starting YM 1700

[puresol]

Friday I bought a YM 1700 with 6 implements for $2000. I think I got a good deal, at least I thought I did. I saw the tractor run, a forklift mechanic friend came buy and looked and didnt think I could go wrong. So I did it.
The tractor was owned by an elderly man. When he passed away his granddaughters husband bought it. He changed all the fluids, had the injector pump rebuilt, put in a new battery and she ran ok. The previous owner told me that she is very hard to start when cold. There is the history I know.
I got the tractor home and she would not crank. I checked the fuel system for air, followed instruction on Hoye website, I cleaned all battery connections, checked the exhaust for obstructions, the battery is suspect to me, owner had some story of paying 30 for the battery, so I hooked jumper cables to it. After five hours of work she finally started up. I drove around the property, cut it off, on, off, on, no problems. I let it sit 1.5 hrs, started right up. I let it sit for three hours, started right up. I let it sit 10 hours, started right up. I let it sit approximately 12 hrs, wont start. Hooked it back up to jumper cables, wont start, but smokes black smoke (like a freight train). There is no smoke from crank case vent, I dont know what that would mean, someone on another forum just asked me so I thought it must be important. The air filter is in poor shape, I have ordered the replacement, i removed it for starting purpose only. So what am I missing?
I have fuel, I have air, I believe I have compression, is it possible that a weak battery is the cause of all my problems? Could I have an injector problem? How would I know if ether has been used? Could that cause my problem?
Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[careyo63]

Take the Battery to a Parts store and have it checked out. While the Cables are disconnected clean and check them out. Esp the Neg. were it grounds to the frame. Are you using the Decompression. I believe Hoye's site will explain and go over that also.

 

[puresol]

Yep Im using decompression. I am taking the battery to the parts store tomorrow. I already cleaned all the battery connections and payed extra attention to the ground.

 

[California]

Won't crank, or won't fire?

Does it feel like it spins over fast enough - or struggles to crank against compression? Slow cranking points to a weak battery, cooked starter, bad wire connections. Try cranking with the headlights on and see if they dim. You could feel all the wiring connections to see if one is hot, which indicates a poor connection.

Or does it crank ok, but not fire? Before you suspect mechanical problems, try setting the fuel aside and replacing it with known fresh fuel. I've had problems with bad fuel twice. First, when I bought the tractor, the fuel was so nasty it had none of the volatility needed to ignite under compression. And it burned my eyes so bad that I suspect it was pre-1994 high sulphur fuel from the abandoned farm tank I saw at the seller's place. Replacing that crap with good fuel remedied the starting difficulties that cause the short-term previous owner to unload the tractor out of frustration. Then later I experimented with B100 (pure biodiesel) and caused my own difficulties until I had used it all up. Same problem, no useful volatility, worsening as the temperature fell below 55 degrees.

What ether does is crack the rings or piston lands (grooves) which lowers compression. If compression seems good, then I wouldn't suspect that ether caused a problem.

Does it have the Thermostart option? (manifold heater, looks like a spark plug.) Using the TS might help it start easier.

Keep on troubleshooting. If it starts some times and not other times, I doubt the problem is serious.

 

[puresol]

Wont fire. I think it spins fast enough. Like I said I had it running. I believe after this morning that the battery is bad and will not hold a charge. Will hardly turn over. I am taking it to the auto parts store for test. Also I am going to clean all connections again. The fuel is fresh from a local store that sells alot of off road diesel to farmers. So its new fuel to me and I would guess that they move enough volume that it hasnt been in their tanks a super long time. No thermostart. Hasnt been cold enough to need it 55-60 am temp although is 45 this am and would probably come in handy. Will get one in the future.

 

[deepNdirt]

Hello and welcome to TBN.... I see you are a fellow Georgian and a ym1700 owner just as my self, once you get this issue straighten out you'll love the little tractor,:thumbsup: I see where you stated the injector pump had recently been rebuilt, This leads us to believe a previous owner has suspected a fuel delivery issue, after doing as California has suggest
and if you've assured yourself the electrical system is in order, ( good battery and all connections etc,etc, )
I would look further into the fuel delivery circuit, Possibly try bleeding out the lines again, Note: sometimes it might take 2 people to do the job, have someone to help turn over the engine while you crack the fitting, Kinda as you would when bleeding brake lines in your car, this way you can better monitor and close off the fitting just at the right time when the fuel starts spitting out, if you have already assured yourself no air in the line and the injectors are not clogged, then I would check the compression or perhaps check to be sure the decompression lever is closing all the way, a stuck open valve could cause the lack of compression and not allow to start and could blow black smoke as you mentioned seeing,
Oh! and BTW not a bad buy on the tractor with 6 implements:thumbsup:
what implements did you get with it? (((((( Pictures Please ))))))

 

[puresol]

Im working on the pictures, but not sure how to get them on. Will keep trying. Your not far from me maybe 40 miles down 85. Shoot I love the little tractor already I like working "tinkering" on things. If I had to do it again I would be a mechanic. Will check the headlights tonight, I definitely need help with that. I tried to remove the injectors. I got one out but didnt know how to proceed further so I stopped before I messed something up. They are suspect to me. Battery is also very suspect. I have bled and bled and bled, at the injectors I get a good spurt, spurt, spurt, no air. Shes running now. Took abouth 30 min with the car hooked to her for charging. Also hooked my wifes hair dryer to the air intake. Lets keep that a secret. Three turns of the key and she was up and running. Took it out for a victory lap around the property, no problems. Get a lot of black smoke when it cranks up, then light grey smoke that clears up after about 5 min of idling.
I got the tractor, 4' bush hog. bottom plow, 4' disc harrow, cultivator, boom pole, carry all (flat bed attachment), and a ball hitch attachment. Thought I had done ok.
My experience with the tractor is once it has run it cranks easily.

 

[careyo63]

This should come in handy. Oh! forgot to mention I'm in Walton co.

 

[puresol]

Great, I went through Walton county yesterday going to see family. I grew up in Snellville. Its alot differnet now than it was back then. Came to the country 12 years ago, best thing, for me, that I ever did. Diagram will definitely come in handy. Thanks. So I took the battery to the local big chain auto parts store. They tested and charged it for free. Suggested that I bring my starter and alternator to be tested and I did. Starter tested out to be ok. When I removed the starter I found a loose connection< guess I missed it, easy to fix right. Wrong, the nut that the wires connect to was cross threaded. So I destroyed half the threads to get the starter off. Anyway I made a field expedient repair and seem to be ok. Will have to get the starter rebuilt in the future. Definitely getting good connection now. The alternator failed, but failed on the voltage regulator. Isnt the volt reg separate? Anyway I brought it all home and re-assembled. Of course when I got it running this am I moved it into the sun, anyway she started up. I rode around again. No problems. I guess I am just going to have to stay after it and work the kinks out. I need her to be reliable. If my alternator is bad wont it shut off if I remove the pos battery cable? I know it works on gas engines. I tried it and it kept on running.

 

[careyo63]

I moved to Snell. in the late 70's. 5th. House built in Summit chase. The Golf course wasn't even complete yet. And S.Gwinnett. 3 hallways. with only breeze ways in between them. LM_ O. On your Regulater it's to the R. next to the ignition switch in the dash. There is A Solid State available now thats fairly reasonable. Check the Fuse links on your fuse panel. When I first bought my 2000 my Alt. Light would irratticly come on. Trying to resolve my Chrg. prob. found out I have both reg. old style and new SS. When I had Adv.Auto check the Alt.and Reg. everything showed to be good Finally found it. Bad Wire connection on the back of theFuse panel. That would be the least of my worries. You only use the battery for Starting and Lights

 

[ym165dpete]

I had the same problem with my ym165d early this year .I tried everything ,but it turned out to be on the neg cable were it bolts to frame ,I took it off and ground down to bare metal.The starter spun faster then ,and cranked right up.The white smoke is unburt fuel,the black is under load till warm.I allso ended up getting a new battery.Get the highest cranking power that will fit. Pete

 

[puresol]

I grew up off of High Point Rd. I remember when 78 was two lanes. Glad to make your acquaintance. This forum is a huge help. So I guess not having the reg would make the computer fail it on the reg..

 

[puresol]

Pete I appreciate the response. i have checked and cleaned, sanded to shiny metal, the frame and the cable connector.

 

[California]

If my alternator is bad wont it shut off if I remove the pos battery cable? I know it works on gas engines. I tried it and it kept on running.

Nothing you do in the electrical system will shut off the engine. On these early diesels, the electrics are purely to maintain the starting battery plus run headlights etc. There isn't even an electric fuel shutoff solenoid. As soon as you quit cranking, the electric system is completely unrelated to the engine.

If you meant the alternator should quit sending current if there is no battery - I don't think so. Somewhere in the manuals it says leave the key off if you don't have a battery in the tractor and start it by jumpers or towing. So I interpret that to mean that current is generated whenever the key is on and the alternator is turning. The voltage regulator is a tin box on the firewall behind the steering column. (Or if it has been replaced, then smaller and potted in plastic).

if you haven't found this by reading old posts here: YM1700, YM2000, YM240 use the same alternator and regulator as '70~73 Datsun (Nissan). Tell Autozone to set their tester for '72 Datsun. Datsun-spec parts are a direct replacement if you need to replace either/both. But test your components thoroughly first.

While white 'smoke' is unburned fuel vapor, I think the black smoke you see for the first few seconds is excess fuel that is incompletely burned.

 

[California]

Here are a couple of old threads related to what you are working on.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/yanmar/171020-injector-removal-tool-cheapskate-version.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/yanmar/166351-wiring-ym240.html

 

[puresol]

Thanks- I will read them and save link. I dont think I have a serious problem. I used it today on my old garden spot. Drug the harrow a few times thru, put it to a little work. No black smoke while working, only slight smoke when working. Did fine. Need to re-check fluids to see if I used any or are levels staying the same. Maybe the loose connection at the starter was my problem. Will see.

 

[deepNdirt]

Maybe the loose connection at the starter was my problem. Will see.

8 out of 10 times it usually is a bad connection, and most of the time it is the ground wire,
all of Georgia has been built up around us, back in the 70's - 80's everyone was willing to let progress move us ahead, and now everyone is moving to the hills, I was born /raised in Buford, never moved away more than 20 miles from there, Incidentally I have relatives in Snellville myself, as well as having some in Lavonia,

 

[puresol]

To all who offered advice I appreciate it. Havent start my tractor in over 24 hrs. Went out back as soon as I got home, 48 outside, three tries (no thermostart) and I am up and running. Now to start flushing and filling. Thanks again for the help.

 

[California]

Yay! :thumbsup:

Aren't these things great toys?