Property Taxes

[dave1949]

True Scenario ,
My mom is retired , she has made all the money she is ever going to make.
She worked , raised 3 kids and kept a roof over our head. She no longer has a mortgage.. yet every year they raise her property tax. eventually My sister and I will have to figure out what to do to help her out. she will reach a point (in the not so distant future) where her Social security and very small pension will no longer cover her taxes. Even if she sold the house , the price of condo's in our area are so high she would actually have to pick up a mortgage again Just to purchase one. We have thought about a reverse mortgage for her ...

Truly a sad situation for an independent woman who was a contributor to the American workforce all her life and a great mom to boot.

I agree.

Property taxes are one of the most vicious problems for the elderly. Most probably didn't assume they would live as long as they have, so it isn't always about poor planning or lack of home financial management. Plus, who could guess how high they will go?

Maine has a property tax circuit breaker program that limits a person's property tax based upon income. It helps but I doubt if it is a total solution.
Dave.

 

[jinjimbob]

I agree.

Property taxes are one of the most vicious problems for the elderly. Most probably didn't assume they would live as long as they have, so it isn't always about poor planning or lack of home financial management. Plus, who could guess how high they will go?

Maine has a property tax circuit breaker program that limits a person's property tax based upon income. It helps but I doubt if it is a total solution.
Dave.

BUT.... who created the children that require schools? The old people did.

They voted yes on all the school taxes. Its their own fault, if they had children they should pay the taxes for ever, as long as they are alive.

They had the children.

 

[scootr2d]

ok , I'll say it so everyone can jump on me ...

jinjimbob,
As as a society are they not all our children , and our future ... don't we want them educated so they can compete in a global market place for high paying Jobs , so they can contribute more in taxes? And the hamster continues to run round and round on his little wheel........

Seriously , I do believe in giving future generations an opportunity for higher learning, But in my state tying education to my property taxes is just excessive and forces folks out of their homes.

 

[dave1949]

BUT.... who created the children that require schools? The old people did.

They voted yes on all the school taxes. Its their own fault, if they had children they should pay the taxes for ever, as long as they are alive.

They had the children.

Elderly folks can be undone by property taxes whether they had children or not, so your post doesn't make any sense in that regard.

Beyond that, if you have children, the children should become self-supporting around 20 yrs. old, so "they should pay taxes forever" makes no sense either.
Dave.

 

[tulenutn2o]

Lets all just remember that this country was formed by people fighting to escape taxes....Property taxes are a burden and penalize for improvements through said taxation. Taxes should only be collected on perceived value of improvements upon the sale of said property. Ex: you buy a house for a given price, you pay property taxes on that amount for as long as you own the home. Any improvements would not be taxed until sale. Maybe then , people could afford to improve their homes without fear of the tax man.My $.025

 

[2manyrocks]

"The protest movement that culminated with the Boston Tea Party was not a dispute about high taxes."--from the Wiki MossRoad posted.

I was under the impression that the American Revolution resulted in part because the colonists didn't want to foot the bills that Mother England was sending them for such things as the cost of the British army, and overall whether the Tea party was about high taxes or not, the Revolution could be characterized in part as a "tax revolt." I could be mistaken, but that's my impression.

Tennessee use to not have any sales tax. The sales tax was passed for the stated purpose of paying off school bonds, but now it is the primary means of funding all our state government apart from Federal funds. I forget what the rate was, but it has increased from something like 3-4% to 9.75% now, plus they've broadened the base to cover more goods and services.

We also have a property tax.

The sales tax and the property tax go for many other things besides schools (some of whose graduation rates calls into question their usefulness).

We all pay taxes in so many different ways that probably none of us actually realize the total amount we pay each year. Tax money is spent in such a way that there appears to be hardly any accountability in how the funds are raised, how they're spent or what results are achieved.

And to top it off, in my experience, the more well funded the local government, the more the local government sticks its nose into your business.

 

[tulenutn2o]

"The protest movement that culminated with the Boston Tea Party was not a dispute about high taxes."--from the Wiki MossRoad posted.

I was under the impression that the American Revolution resulted in part because the colonists didn't want to foot the bills that Mother England was sending them for such things as the cost of the British army, and overall whether the Tea party was about high taxes or not, the Revolution could be characterized in part as a "tax revolt." I could be mistaken, but that's my impression.

Tennessee use to not have any sales tax. The sales tax was passed for the stated purpose of paying off school bonds, but now it is the primary means of funding all our state government apart from Federal funds. I forget what the rate was, but it has increased from something like 3-4% to 9.75% now, plus they've broadened the base to cover more goods and services.

We also have a property tax.

The sales tax and the property tax go for many other things besides schools (some of whose graduation rates calls into question their usefulness).

We all pay taxes in so many different ways that probably none of us actually realize the total amount we pay each year. Tax money is spent in such a way that there appears to be hardly any accountability in how the funds are raised, how they're spent or what results are achieved.

And to top it off, in my experience, the more well funded the local government, the more the local government sticks its nose into your business.

Anytime money moves, government taxes it. You are 100% correct. That's why the tax code is 1000's of pages and so confusing. If anyone figured it out, the government would cease to exist for all the rioting and unrest that would follow.Big shell game. You know, there are places in the states where revenuers still aren't welcome. Years ago, the tax man didn't dare come knocking on doors, now he has all the power in the world to knock that door down.

 

[MossRoad]

I have always been a big proponent of a flat tax (or similar )system. How about a pay on oly the purchases you make , you want the big car , gonna pay a big tax, you want the big house , you pay the big tax .. want that big boat pay that big tax, that way people decide what tax they can afford to pay and live within their means.

True Scenario ,
My mom is retired , she has made all the money she is ever going to make.
She worked , raised 3 kids and kept a roof over our head. She no longer has a mortgage.. yet every year they raise her property tax. eventually My sister and I will have to figure out what to do to help her out. she will reach a point (in the not so distant future) where her Social security and very small pension will no longer cover her taxes. Even if she sold the house , the price of condo's in our area are so high she would actually have to pick up a mortgage again Just to purchase one. We have thought about a reverse mortgage for her ...

Truly a sad situation for an independent woman who was a contributor to the American workforce all her life and a great mom to boot.

Don't want to pry. Just say no comment if the questions are too personal.

When I hear stories like this I would typically ask if she saved for retirement, had a pension, relied mostly on social security being there or maybe didn't earn enough to allow putting something away for retirement. Some folks, including me, were never given lessons on finance. My dad lost his job several times when I was growing up. The family also had some medical setbacks. So I know things can happen to knock people's plans off track, too. However, it is good to explore and discuss these historical, documented situations to help young people realize that they need to learn about finances and what can happen if you don't plan to live to be 100 and you actually do live to be 100.

Just as an example if you put a $1,000,000.00 in the bank and the bank is currently only paying 1% interest, you will only get ten thousand dollars a year in interest. If you are currently making $50,000.00 per year and are used to living on that, you are going to have to dig into your savings to the tune of $40,000.00 a year just to maintain your lifestyle and that's not taking inflation into account. So you retire at 60 with a million bucks, suck 40K out each year and in 25 years when you are 85 your money is ALL GONE! You got 15 years left to live and no money.

Of course, that scenario leaves out lots of variables, like interest up and down, rate of inflation, social security supplement, less expenses for commuting to work, etc... but you get the drift. A million dollar nest egg earning low interest in the bank might not be enough to maintain a comfortable living for 25 years of retirement.

 

[Dargo]

Don't want to pry. Just say no comment if the questions are too personal.

When I hear stories like this I would typically ask if she saved for retirement, had a pension, relied mostly on social security being there or maybe didn't earn enough to allow putting something away for retirement. Some folks, including me, were never given lessons on finance. My dad lost his job several times when I was growing up. The family also had some medical setbacks. So I know things can happen to knock people's plans off track, too. However, it is good to explore and discuss these historical, documented situations to help young people realize that they need to learn about finances and what can happen if you don't plan to live to be 100 and you actually do live to be 100.

Just as an example if you put a $1,000,000.00 in the bank and the bank is currently only paying 1% interest, you will only get ten thousand dollars a year in interest. If you are currently making $50,000.00 per year and are used to living on that, you are going to have to dig into your savings to the tune of $40,000.00 a year just to maintain your lifestyle and that's not taking inflation into account. So you retire at 60 with a million bucks, suck 40K out each year and in 25 years when you are 85 your money is ALL GONE! You got 15 years left to live and no money.

Of course, that scenario leaves out lots of variables, like interest up and down, rate of inflation, social security supplement, less expenses for commuting to work, etc... but you get the drift. A million dollar nest egg earning low interest in the bank might not be enough to maintain a comfortable living for 25 years of retirement.

Ok, it shouldn't be any shock to you, but I may be a little strange. I started planning my retirement when I was about 12 years old. I figured that once I had "everything I needed" and no debt with a cool million in the bank, I could call it quits.

Enter high school. Mr. Carter made me re-assess my retirement plans. I still figured that if I doubled my amount in the bank, I could still retire.

Enter college. ****. I just had to take a couple of years of economics classes. This retire by the age of 55 and live out the rest of my life in comfortable leisure took a big hit. Move that savings figure to about 5 million.

Enter real life and this brutal recession. Also note, 55 years old just doesn't sound that old anymore. A mean, really, why quit at 55. Statistics generally say that one is still pretty well at the top of their earning cycle in their life. Why stop then? Move savings figure to 10 million and possibly move the retirement age. Getting married and having 5 wonderful kids along the way (and, no, I can sincerely say I do not regret having five kids in any way, shape or form) and things get more complicated with colleges reducing their scholarships and VMI just flat stealing from their cadets and students (I have this well documented with a few media outlets working for the rights to expose them) and it's even more complicated. My question; with five kids and a reasonable sized estate, can a guy really retire even if everything is paid off and there is 10 mil in the bank? Remember, you can NEVER own land in this country; you only rent it. If you don't believe me, just quit paying your property tax and see what happens. What does it take to retire and just live the life of leisure and travel at will?

 

[ultrarunner]

Anytime money moves, government taxes it. You are 100% correct. That's why the tax code is 1000's of pages and so confusing. If anyone figured it out, the government would cease to exist for all the rioting and unrest that would follow.Big shell game. You know, there are places in the states where revenuers still aren't welcome. Years ago, the tax man didn't dare come knocking on doors, now he has all the power in the world to knock that door down.

A elderly Irish friend of mine told me once the government can't run out of money because a dollar only has to change hands 3 times for the goverment to get it back... made me think.