PT 429 project

[scarg]

Okay here are a few random at beginning middle and almost the end which will hopefully occur this week.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[Barryh]

Okay here are a few random at beginning middle and almost the end which will hopefully occur this week.

Thanks,

Steve

Wheres your blower?

 

[BobRip]

Nice design. I wonder how easy this would be to adapt to my older 422 with the engine between the pumps. (Pumps driven of the front and back of the engine.

 

[Phils]

Man, Steve, that looks GREAT!!! Excellent job making it look like "factory" ....not PT's factory, but one more interested in quality and attention to detail ;-)

You gonna build and sell kits as the rest of us evolve and need engine swaps?

Phil

 

[SnowRidge]

Nice design. I wonder how easy this would be to adapt to my older 422 with the engine between the pumps. (Pumps driven of the front and back of the engine.

Bob, all the VV pump manufacturers seem to have numerous options for their pumps, including the ability to drive other pumps off the back end. I suspect it would be a matter of identifying your pump and getting the various bits needed to do the conversion. There are a lot of shops that specialize in fluid power. Any of them could probably do the job, if you didn't want to tackle it yourself.

 

[SnowRidge]

I just got through going through all the pics. Really nice job, and I hope it runs as well as it looks.

Congrats.

 

[BobRip]

Bob, all the VV pump manufacturers seem to have numerous options for their pumps, including the ability to drive other pumps off the back end. I suspect it would be a matter of identifying your pump and getting the various bits needed to do the conversion. There are a lot of shops that specialize in fluid power. Any of them could probably do the job, if you didn't want to tackle it yourself.

Maybe I could move the engine to the back of the vehicle and thereby give better weight balance. I had not thought of that.

 

[ponytug]

Dear Scarg,

This does look great. Did you consider running the cooling hoses on to the engine cover at the hinge, so that they would have a small (well 90 degree) axial twist as you open and shut the cover? It would save you a lot of hose and pipe.

I hope that you end up with all the power and Pizazz that you are hoping for!

All the best,

Peter

 

[kmaz]

hey steve , things are looking good. this is kris, you were kind enough to let me come over and take a look at your pt before i took the plunge myself....THANKS. I went ahead and bought a 425, only put on 80 hrs so far but I love it. I did however make one modification to the exhaust that is similar to yours. i put the stock Robin canister style exhaust inside the engine compartment. Long story short I had to fabricate a two layer heat shield with a 1" air space in between. It was just to hot ,to close to the gas tank. ill start another thread with pics.

Kris

 

[JD-Beach]

Hey Steve, ... Great project !!! ... Thanks for sharing it with us, and keep up the good work. I'm anxious to see the finished product in action. Do you think that the liquid cooled engine will be quieter than the removed air-cooled engine? I would guess that it would be much quieter. ... we're all cheering you on !!

 

[scarg]

FYI - Below is email I just sent to Terry at PT-

When all is up to snuff i will take more pictures and video with sound and upload. Probably be a couple weeks before that happens though.

I am extremely physically and mentally worn out but i wouldn't be right to hold back information from fellow pt owners! Please excuse anything that doesn't make sense-

also The PT429 has a lot of power and adds about 200 pounds over the stock robin 22 - like I said in am physically exhausted but would do it again in a heartbeat. To turn that key with a weak undersized battery designed for an atv at idle speed and have it start instantly is nice.

Hear it is-

Subject: PT 429 fuel tank rfq (was - Parts Order subject in prior emails)

Greetings Terry,

I assume that you are interested in projects of this type and feel free to pass on others who may be interested in it.

Obviously this is not a small project but one that I feel is well worth the time and money (motor purchased from ebay from smallenginewarehouse delivered for under $1,900.00

All materials and machining etc… was done at our factory (the owners have pt’s and so does our outside contracted electrical engineer – who I wish I got involved in prior to me doing the wiring.

He has a 418 and the blocks and other parts should be same for 18 22 and 25 hp units. For his time in troubleshooting I gave him the old robin engine in exchange for spare parts.

If you need to contact me please contact me on my mobile phone as I will be traveling for business Mon. thru Thursday.

I also need price and delivery for a new fuel tank for my model 422

This is the tractor that I installed a Model fd791d-s01 29HP Kawasaki liquid cooled fuel injected engine.

The engine runs great / starts great even at 15 degrees and fits very nicely and I also installed a 100 amp alternator to power the hyd rad fan and liquid cooled radiator aftermarket fan (not enough room to leave the original kawi with belt driven fan i.e. I hand to relocate these items under a top mounted cage. Have not connected the fans yet which will be run by the alternator which is used for all but charging battery. I should be able to put some pretty bright lights on it in the future. The hoses fold into correct position when the cage side is installed with no kinks. A36 carbon steel plate cut with cnc abrasive water jet at our factory. Mechanically everything went together perfect and only took me and another guy about 1 hour to physically install and connect to hyd pump. All the easy stuff was a nightmare the the complicated stuff went perfectly.

I hope files aren’t too large for you to receive download etc…..should be okay but again please let me know if you receive.

For instance-
1. wiring mistake I had to purchase to new ignition coils (which a local john deere cross referenced and they were purchased under a john deere part number and the boxes and coils were Kawasaki – interesting huh….I verified resistance to oem spec and they worked great). It was impossible to get the coils using the kawi part numbers in less than 3 days and no junk yards with this engine (I checked with all the area guru’s to no avail) probably have about 10 hours in this one troubleshooting and installing etc….
2. copper tubing solder job leaked in to spots and I had to use super sealant stuff and larger diameter short hose to reseal – probably had 15 hours laying out building and installing plumbing. The grey hoses very robust and tend not to kink and fit perfectly of 1” nominal copper tubing.

Need to paint it yet before corrosion sets in but that can wait for now. I which had made from 304 stainless now!

I had the fuel tank and heat shield installed and also a heat barrier material (unknown was given to me but did not do the job)

If and only if I can find a way to thermally shield between the exhaust and fuel tank I will use the stock type PT tank and I will test the material much more closely for obvious reasons.

Do you know of any suppliers that would have a thin (3/8” maximum thickness to shield the fuel tank from the exhaust system?)

So the bottom line is the fuel tank started to melt and the stock PT heat shield (with minor material removal and spacers to adjust position slightly).

I used a laser infrared temperature gauge and paid very close attention to the temperatures of the exhaust, heat shield, thermal barrier material, and fuel tank (stock PT).

I don’t recall the temperature at which I determined to shut down the unit (fire extinguisher was present!) FYI fuel level in tank was about 1” and that portion of the fuel tank did not cause concern heat wise.

I immediately killed the engine and some melting occurred to the stock PT fuel tank but did not melt through only pushed it in and I wasn’t concerned about fire once the engine was shut of because it was about 18 degrees F outside and everything quickly cooled down.

I leave Monday for business trip and wanted to have running and tested completely so my wife could use for our normal things like firewood handling, horse stall cleaning, moving round hay bales and plowing etc…. Therefore I had been awake and working on winterizing projects for about 26 hours and spent time working on the PT from about 6:00 PM to 8:00 AM and the melting incident was where I called it quits for the day.

Still a bit incoherent from lack up sleep so above may jump from subject to subject etc…..I will sleep good tonight?

Please confirm receipt of this email because I want to get whatever I need immediately so I can install on this Friday 11-16-07

End

 

[scarg]

PS - it is extremely quiet using stock kawasaki exhaust. Seriously it is very very quiet even higher rpms.

Goodnight

Steve

 

[kmaz]

Hey Steve , you know were interested in this sort of thing but just out of curiosity why would you assume they are? ( as posted in your letter to them)

Kris

 

[scarg]

Hey Steve , you know were interested in this sort of thing but just out of curiosity why would you assume they are? ( as posted in your letter to them)

Kris

Good point- Terry and the new gentlemen that replaced Scott Gentry seemed interested in it when I initially contacted them about upgrading to the 25hp kohler and i mention the fuel injected 29hp. I think they just seemed generally interested.

If not no harm done either way i was/am brain dead tired- just pumping out the information while it is fresh in my mind even if my mind isn't fresh at the moment.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[ponytug]

Scarg,

You mentioned that you were looking for insulating materials. In another thread, I listed a few paint additives that can be used to significant IR resistance.

Given that your heat problem is the muffler, you might just want to send it out for thermal coating.

If you have space between the fuel tank baffle and the fuel tank, you can fill it with glass fiber. (If you don't have one, you can (should?) add one if you have the clearance.)

Softening gas tanks are not good things to have around.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Marks481]

Please remember that Power Trac is not real responsive to email (sometimes it seems like they don't even bother to read email), so don't take offence if they don't respond. Just call Terry direct and talk to them.

Gas tank deforming and melting? Sounds like you got lucky and didn't loose your product to a fire. Remember a gas tank 5% full of gas is 95% full of explosve vapors, since the power track does not has a fuel vapor system to draw a vacuum on the gas tank to keep it safe. Looking at the mod, having just a single metal heat shield so tightly fitting between the muffler and the fuel tank looks like a disaster waiting to happen. Seems like you would be better off with an external muffler to keep the heat out of the engine compartment, and then insulate the exhaust headers.

Great job with the conversion, although it would have been nice if you could have fit it into the stock engine cover. Looking at the pictures, it looks like there is a decent gap between the top of the radiator and the top of your extended cover. Also, having the fan sandwiched between the hydraulic cooler and the radiator seems kind of pointless. Wouldn't one fan be able to draw through both radiators?

I have been playing around with an engine oil cooler on my PT422. Initially I mounted it to the back, and then to the side of the engine cover, but the extra hose required for opening the engine compartment made the installation prone to failure. Seems like you have a similar issue with the engine coolant hose. Could you build a support mount so the radiator is attached to the engine, and doesn't flip up? Then you could minimize the amount of coolant hose that you need.

I am amazed that you got so much done in such a short time; although it sounds like you have all the right tools (and people) at work to help you out.

You could fabricate a replacement gas tank out of aluminum if power trac doesn't come through with a source for a replacement tank. It is unfortunate that the gas tank takes so much room in the engine compartment that might otherwise be a prime location for mounting of the engine coolant radiator. Maybe an external muffler would give some more room to install a flatter fuel tank, which might allow an engine radiator to be mounted above it at the front of the engine cover? I am sure that you have had a 1000 ideas of ways to do this differantly and have discaarded them during the modification. I had enough problems just coming up with a way to mount an external engine oil cooler and do an exhaust header mod.

Gotta say that you win the KING PT MOD prize; nobody will be able to beat this for ingenuity (even if they do duplicate it, you are the first). Maybe if someone does a diesel mod....

 

[scarg]

PT gas tank is $175 ouch- Therefore I made a 5 gallon tank from 8" sch 40 pvc pipe and mounted it to the back of the original PT cage. I finally got to actually use the tractor today to get my forks at the top of my hill and also move a 700 pound round bale of hay to pick up and dump in horse round feeder- no PT pucker when going with round hay bail either.

The added weight of the heavier engine and top cage and fuel tank probably adds 150 extra pounds directly over the read wheels.

I have a hill behind my house that is maybe 40- 50 degree angle - very steep. The oringal robin subaru 22HP 422 would not climb it (even with not attachments) and i always had to go around the steep part and literally zig zag back and forth (light on the treadle - tried everything just didn't have the power) and slowly it would inch it's way up the hill on the 15 degree section.

Today i drove the PT 429 over to the steepest part of the hill and stopped. Keep in mind i have very agreesive tire chains on all 4 tires.

Okay i am now stopped at the steepest section - At about 3/4 throttle 3600 is max) I mashed the treadle the all four wheels (with wheel chains) were spinning and ripping the ground apart as the full fury of the PT 429 unit was unleashed. I was stunned at how much more power this 29HP Kawasaki has. It's a beast of a machine now.

Low end torque with slow engine rpm is also amazing and as far as how the PT 429 feels it is not just the expected 20-30% increase in torque and horsepower but 1t feels like both low and high end power is 5-10 times over - the robin 22HP enginer maybe more. Starting even at 12 degrees the 429 kawi
Runs awesome and is extremely quite. I need to have some brackets made this week to permanently mount the gas tank paint cage etc... Looks like a 6th grade scienc project right now until brakcts are made.

I obviously have dozens if not a hundred or more hours into this project but i would do it again in a heartbeat.

When i get the 429 completely finished i wll take some more images and maybe a video of the hill climbing to show you all what i mean when i say it has a lot of snot.

I removed the alternator and it's brackets becuase i can run the aftermarket 12 VDC radiator electric easily and i have it on top of the radiator and the hyd radiator directly above it. So the top original PT hyd cooling fan will just be an ornament for now. The amount of air the aftermaret 12 VDC fan moves is incredible. So the old hyd fan it just along for the ride.

As i mentioned before i still have to paint the top cage and it has a very very slight leak on one of the solder joints.

I'll keep you posted as i move forward.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[SpringHollow]

Will gasoline leach stuff out of the PVC pipe? Is there any methyl ethyl ketone in gasoline? I would soak a small piece of PVC in a clear glass jar with some gas in it and see if the gas discolors, gets cloudy, etc. or if the PVC gets soft or sticky.

Ken

 

[scarg]

For this application it is generally accepted as good to use because it is open to atmosphere through top mounted vent and is rated up to 140 degrees F while under pressure up to 160 psig.

I would not even begin to think about putting gas in pvc pipe if it were possible for pressure to build up in the tank.

Here is a link for PVC and it compatibility with various chemicals for ref.

There are many more sources and i checked many but this is most comprehensive.

http://www.vylonpipe.com/techsheets/Chemical Resistance of PVC Pipe.htm

Thanks,

Steve

 

[Marks481]

With the gas tank out back that should open up alot more room under the canopy. Do you think you could fit the radiator in the space where the gas tank used to be?