PT ABUSE?!!?

[FOURTEEN]

PT Abuse. Does it happen? Is that good or bad?


“noun: improper or excessive use”

What is ‘improper’? If I can get my PT to do a job that it wasn’t specifically intended for, isn’t that just innovation? I dig up stones rather than potatoes with my Potato Digger. I cut trenches with my Stump Grinder. Are those uses improper?

What is ‘excessive’? Is moving 50 big logs OK, but moving 100 big logs excessive? If I try to lift too much, my PT just won’t do it! Nothing bends or breaks, it just refuses! What’s the largest lawn that I can mow without abusing my PT?


“verb: change the inherent purpose or function of something”

The best virtue that a PT has is it’s ability to help it’s owner with nearly any job he has to do! Most Posts here on TBN involve talking about how to get a variety of jobs done using the PT, about how to use the PT in unusual ways, or about how some change or improvement will allow the PT to work even harder and better!


My test is if what I am doing will lead to bending, breaking, failing, accelerated wear, or damage! If not, it’s not ‘abuse’!! With all the ‘abuse’ being reported on TBN, why do I see so few Posts about PT failures??

In nearly 3 years of abusing my PT the only possible ‘abuse’ failure that I’ve had was the bending of the toggle between the lift arms. But the replacement toggle that PT sent me was much larger in diameter! So maybe it wasn’t my abuse, but rather the OEM sizing of the toggle that was to blame for the failure!!

To paraphrase the old Timex commercials: “The Power Trac will take a licking, and keep on ticking!!”!

 

[Beechwood]

I agree with Fourteens point 100%. If anyone has abused their PT beyond its intended purpose I guess I would have to fess up first and jump in front of the line. The 180 was not designed to handle a mini backhoe ( at least that's what I was told by powertrac when I approached them about the idea ). Eighteen months later and the backhoe is still working like a true trooper, even with the 16" bucket! Am I stressing or abusing the machine-- so far nothing has broken yet!

I reversed the stump cutter and have had no damage to the machine, plus I'm not getting a face full of dirt and woodchips. Now if someone is stupid enough to stand in front of or beside the stump cutter while it's running I guess that would be a unsafe practice.

I built the carryall for the 180- is the extra 75 lbs. putting stress on the wheel motors and motor brackets? I don't think so, if anything the added weight helps for traction.

I built the hydraulic boom lift as well, and while I don't intend to lift 6-700 lbs.12 feet in the air with it, it has come in handy several times.

The only thing I would not do is reverse the wheels, because where I only have one steering cyl. I do believe that would put undue stress on the steering cyl. bracket weldments.

Anyway that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[BobRip]

I believe that abuse is indicated by doing something that shortens the life of the device by many times. If I use an attachment and it breaks after 10 minutes then I probably abused it. PT has the relief valve to protect against overloads and that keeps you from lifting something too heavy, or grabbing something too hard.
If I can fix the abuse quickly with the tools that I have at hand and not buy an expensive part then I don't feel too bad.
The problems I have had the most was getting something caught in the shaft seals of the hydraulic motors on the trencher and stump grinder. On the stump grinder it as a root or vine. I feel that roots are a normal part of the world and the PT should handle that. On trencher it was a strap. This was my fault and I should have kept the strap away from the trencher.

The other philosphy is to never use the product. It wil last a long time, but what is the point of owning it if you don't use it. If you wear it out the day before you die, that's about right.

 

[MossRoad]

I have broken two sledge hammers in my life... not the handles, the head. I beat them into a bent up piece of steel. I was using them beyond their capability. I do believe we can overstress the PTs; the motors, the welds and the designs, by constantly adding more weight to the units and pushing against immovable objects too often. Something will give eventually.

Yes, I will just fix it when it does. But I maintain that we PT owners push these things much harder than what they were designed for.... and don't give a hoot!

 

[pajoube]

I have broken two sledge hammers in my life... not the handles, the head. I beat them into a bent up piece of steel. I was using them beyond their capability. I do believe we can overstress the PTs; the motors, the welds and the designs, by constantly adding more weight to the units and pushing against immovable objects to often. Something will give eventually.

Yes, I will just fix it when it does. But I maintain that we PT owners push these things much harder than what they were designed for.... and don't give a hoot!

I guess my use of the 425 digging a foundation was by far excessive abuse.
On the other hand it did the job even if slow. When I was finished I had saved $2500 which more than paid for the mini hoe.
PJ

 

[BobRip]

I do care about my PT and all of the equipment that I own. I only have so much money and would like to use if effectively. Watch for the running starts into a pile of dirt or similar. It is easy to abuse a PT since the manufacturer cannot predict all possible uses and abuses.
Also since PT has no warning on what is abuse, one man's idea of what is normal use may far exceed the machine capability. TBN can certainly help.

I suggest we focus this thread on what we consider abuse. Let's stay away from reversing the wheels discussion since that has been done to death. What have you personally done that turned out to be abuse and damaged the machine or significantly shortened the machine life or you just knew this was not right. Then people can make up there own mind if the want to take the risk.
I pushed on a tree with the quick attach plate (no attachment connected). The plate was warped and since then I have had to straighten it out with a hammer and reweld both of the bolts that go through the plate and hold the connect lugs in place. I did not think this would hurt the machine when I did it. I would definately not do this again.

 

[Barryh]

I guess I like to baby my PT most of the time. As Bob mentioned above, I don't ram the bucket into anything, I take my time, work with the machine and stay within its limits. The job gets done a little slower, but it gets done just the same.

I do on occasion lift or move overly heavy objects. Of course that’s why I bought the PT. When in use I make slow smooth steady movements with the controls. If lifting, turning or traveling with a full load I try not to jerk it.

When I’m done working I always do a check for anything loose or bent, and tighten accordingly. Then again I treat my truck, and all of my equipment that way. This is probably the only tractor I will ever buy. I want it to last a long time.

 

[Beechwood]

I think my original boom lift design put the most stress and abuse on my attachment plate. If some of you remember my orig. boom lift thread, I made the attachment frame with a vertical receiver and a receiver 90 degrees to the plate. This was a bad idea because when I was lifting weight at the end of the boom ( distance to the tip of the boom is 52" ) the tilt / curl cyl. was straining. So now I let the hydraulic boom do the work instead of the attachment plate cyl.

 

[pairodime]

I wondered about this issue before I bought my 425 and asked the wise folks here about it in this thread http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/36867-pt-abuse.html?highlight=abuse. After putting over 200 "hard" hours on my machine, I believe I've had to fix a number of things that wouldn't have been necessary if I'd just been cutting grass or other "easy" tasks. I moved and spread over 150 dump truck loads of fill dirt on my lot and had to make a number of repairs that I think were directly related to that task. Do I think I abused my PT? Well, maybe...but I say it with pride, and all my neighbors are amazed....Especially when she's under full load and doing the PT pucker.

 

[Beechwood]

My modified boom lift puts less strain and abuse on my attachment plate and the tilt/curl function.

 

[BobRip]

My modified boom lift puts less strain and abuse on my attachment plate and the tilt/curl function.

Could you give us a closeup of how you attached this to the PT to reduce the stresses? I can't quite see it.

 

[Beechwood]

Could you give us a closeup of how you attached this to the PT to reduce the stresses? I can't quite see it.

When I first built my boom lift I did it the same way as you are showing in your avitar picture. I found out that this was not the best way to use a boom lift, When you lift weight at the end of your boom you are using your tilt/curl function, putting undue stress and strain on your tilt/curl piston ( and yes I was putting more strain on the machine using the boom lift then using my backhoe ) unless you just want to use your lift arms to lift the load, I don't think that would be a wise move suspending a load 7 +/- feet out in frount of your machine.

With my modified lift I rest the boom frame ( which has caster wheels mounted on the bottom now )on the ground or surface I happen to be driving on , and just use the boom hydraulics to lift the load, that way I don't have to use the tilt/curl very often. Same M O as using an engine hoist in your shop. ( hoist frame sits on the floor and the hydraulics do all the work )

I hope this makes sense to you.

 

[Barryh]

When I first built my boom lift I did it the same way as you are showing in your avitar picture. I found out that this was not the best way to use a boom lift, When you lift weight at the end of your boom you are using your tilt/curl function, putting undue stress and strain on your tilt/curl piston ( and yes I was putting more strain on the machine using the boom lift then using my backhoe ) unless you just want to use your lift arms to lift the load, I don't think that would be a wise move suspending a load 7 +/- feet out in frount of your machine.

With my modified lift I rest the boom frame ( which has caster wheels mounted on the bottom now )on the ground or surface I happen to be driving on , and just use the boom hydraulics to lift the load, that way I don't have to use the tilt/curl very often. Same M O as using an engine hoist in your shop. ( hoist frame sits on the floor and the hydraulics do all the work )

I hope this makes sense to you.

Pretty clever again, thinking outside of the box.

 

[BobRip]

When I first built my boom lift I did it the same way as you are showing in your avitar picture. I found out that this was not the best way to use a boom lift, When you lift weight at the end of your boom you are using your tilt/curl function, putting undue stress and strain on your tilt/curl piston ( and yes I was putting more strain on the machine using the boom lift then using my backhoe ) unless you just want to use your lift arms to lift the load, I don't think that would be a wise move suspending a load 7 +/- feet out in frount of your machine.

With my modified lift I rest the boom frame ( which has caster wheels mounted on the bottom now )on the ground or surface I happen to be driving on , and just use the boom hydraulics to lift the load, that way I don't have to use the tilt/curl very often. Same M O as using an engine hoist in your shop. ( hoist frame sits on the floor and the hydraulics do all the work )

I hope this makes sense to you.

Yes, that makes sense and is a really slick idea. The PT is just a carrier of the boom, it does not take much of the load. I feel my boom pole is there to lift only relatively light loads, less than 200 pounds at its end. That is enough for most of my loads. Do you have any idea what you can lift with yours.

 

[BobRip]

A few years back, I got a call from my neighbor about his small John Deer tractor (20 hp diesel) being stuck in the snow and could I pull it out. Of course I did, no big deal. I was talking to a rep at Power Trac a few weeks later and described the incident. He asked "Did you get a picture". I am sure PT would have loved than one. Too bad I did not get a picture. Is this abuse of my PT, making it pull out an inferior tractor?

 

[Beechwood]

Yes, that makes sense and is a really slick idea. The PT is just a carrier of the boom, it does not take much of the load. I feel my boom pole is there to lift only relatively light loads, less than 200 pounds at its end. That is enough for most of my loads. Do you have any idea what you can lift with yours.

I bought the boom cyl. from powertrac, it's the same 14" lift arm cyl. that barry and I have on our 180's. Our lift capacity is rated at 600 lbs. There have been two times that I have far exceeded that capacity with my bucket and ended up doing the old PT pucker. The boom lift will easily lift 600 lbs., but is that a smart or safe move ? NO!!

 

[MossRoad]

A few years back, I got a call from my neighbor about his small John Deer tractor (20 hp diesel) being stuck in the snow and could I pull it out. Of course I did, no big deal. I was talking to a rep at Power Trac a few weeks later and described the incident. He asked "Did you get a picture". I am sure PT would have loved than one. Too bad I did not get a picture. Is this abuse of my PT, making it pull out an inferior tractor?

I know this is tongue in cheek.

I have the suspicion that if we hooked our PTs up to something like a Kubota BX, the little BX will pull the little PT all over the place. Different machines for different purposes... However, for what I do, I wouldn't trade my PT for any conventional cut, no matter what the pulling power. It just works so much faster performing the tasks I do and I do not require that brute force that a geared down CUT can provide.

I would have liked to see that picture, though!

 

[Barryh]

I know this is tongue in cheek.

I have the suspicion that if we hooked our PTs up to something like a Kubota BX, the little BX will pull the little PT all over the place. Different machines for different purposes... However, for what I do, I wouldn't trade my PT for any conventional cut, no matter what the pulling power. It just works so much faster performing the tasks I do and I do not require that brute force that a geared down CUT can provide.

I would have liked to see that picture, though!

Your right, it can be a little deceiving. Our machines can lift more than the little BX, but when it comes to digging with the bucket, or towing the extra power of gear drive on the BX will shine. It can dig deeper and get a full bucket with less effort.

Of course the PT has many other advantages, more versatile. Both machines have their Plus’s. I have just enough power in my PT to dig in hard packed WV clay or tow just about anything I want to move.

I think it’s really all in how you work with the machine. For extra stubborn clay / rock I’ll just slap on the tooth bar. I am curious though as to how much more power the larger wheel motors on the 425 will put out. Mine has plenty of power, so the added punch of the larger motors must be more than adequate.