PT425 lift capacity

toolz_not_toyz · Mar 17, 2004

And now a question from someone who is only in the very early early stages of the PT purchase process...

Is the 800lb lift capacity of a PT425 considered to be a lot? What would be the lift capacity of something like a small Kubota or John Deere with a front-end loader?

Also, what limits the lift capacity? Is it the hyrdraulics? Strength of the arms? The weight of the PT itself?--obviously, the PT not being an ant,isn't able to lift more than its weight!

bubenberg · Mar 17, 2004

i just posted that answer yesterday. recommend to use the search capability where you can select power trac search by itself.
800# is what they are legally rated for and as i stated in the right circumstances you probably can get around 1000#. the machine has to be absolutely straight when you carry overloads and the manoeuvering to get whatever and wherever you go, minimal. the reason, once you shorten the length of the machine by full articulation (maximum length of the pt is reduced) your lifting capability is somewhat reduced. This has to do with basic physics and not the strength of the arms or hydraulics. In the articulated tractor of similar seize, the pt 425 shines. my Kubota L2050 with a Schwarz front end loader (they make all the FLN for New Holland) is only rated at 1000#. it cant get through 45 " gates and it makes marks in the turf with turf tires.

MossRoad · Mar 17, 2004

the PT not being an ant, isn't able to lift more than its weight! 

If you could get the load under the center of gravity, I think it would be strong as an ant. It is strong enough to lift the rear wheels off the ground, so the hydraulics and strength of the lift arms are definately not the limitations. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I look at it this way. What other tractors of this weight will lift this much?

toolz_not_toyz · Mar 17, 2004

( i just posted that answer yesterday. recommend to use the search capability where you can select power trac search by itself. )

Huh? Where? When? Long before my very first post I went back in history and read pretty much every message that has ever been posted in here. Since that time I've kept up by checking in several times a day. I'm surprised (amazed!) I didn't see your post on this topic. Just cleared looking through all of the new messages that I hadn't read and still didn't find it. Odd. Anyway...

I think the problem you were referring to about travelling absolutely straight relates to what seems to be referred as "The PT Pucker." The balance of the machine is thrown easily because of its light weight.

There's also a simple rule that everyone should keep in mind when moving heavy objects: never travel with a load any higher than it has to be. I'm amazed how often I see the guy across the street driving around with his loaded bucket several feet in the air, but then, he also seems to like to park his equipment that way.

Charlie_Iliff · Mar 17, 2004

I'm surprised (amazed!) I didn't see your post on this topic. 

Don't be concerned. It's a hangover from when Bubenberg was a University Professor. He hid the 1000 lb. number in a thread on another topic. Sort of a test to see if anyone was reading his posts.
Click on the link to see Bubenberg's rigorous engineering test of the lifting capacity with the articulation and oscillation at max. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
LINK

bubenberg · Mar 17, 2004

good luck ... if you want to see a good picture search pt, grapple and you will see a special grapple that Charlie build for me in action and pt pucker all in one picture.

Bob999 · Mar 17, 2004

Huh? Where? When? Long before my very first post I went back in history and read pretty much every message that has ever been posted in here. Since that time I've kept up by checking in several times a day. I'm surprised (amazed!) I didn't see your post on this topic. Just cleared looking through all of the new messages that I hadn't read and still didn't find it. Odd. Anyway...


If you click on "bubenburg" in one of his posts that will take you to the page that lists information about him. At the bottom of the page is a link that says "list all of users posts".

If you click that it will bring up all of his posts. The post in question can be found by date.

bmac · Mar 17, 2004

To get back to your original question:

 Is the 800lb lift capacity of a PT425 considered to be a lot? What would be the lift capacity of something like a small Kubota or John Deere with a front-end loader?


I'd say its pretty impressive. The rated lift capacity of the FEL on my NH TC 29D is only about 750 lbs. And without rear ballast, I've learned that I can have the rear wheels off the ground with significantly less than the rated weight. And, yes, this is a pucker-inducing activity too (albeit not the PT Pucker).

MossRoad · Mar 18, 2004

Ah, yes. The leverage study. I remember that well. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

FOURTEEN · Mar 18, 2004

.

Before becoming a proud PT-425 owner, I looked at a few other tractors that would do my lifting, but still fit through the trails and woods where I would use it. If you can't get it to the load, or it tears up everything in it's path, what good is it!!???!! These are the rated lifting capacities:

Kioti CK20 = 770#

NH TC24D = 750#

NH TC29D = 875#

MF 1423 = 800#

At 800# the PT-425 handles my needs very well without excessive weight, width, height, or cost.

I find the PT-425 very reassuring to use. If the load is too heavy, the PT will just gently raise the rear end to let me know that I have reached it's limit. Nothing bends, nothing breaks, and nothing pops or snaps. I could perhaps lift more with some weight added to the rear (1# added to the rear increases lift by ~2#), but I don't need the hassle of maybe repairing or replacing overloaded damaged parts! I have learned it’s limits, and operate it within them. Figure out where and what you want to USUALLY lift, then select a tractor to do those jobs. Also you can just take smaller bites, or shorter logs, or few bricks, or whatever!! You don't need some huge tractor just so that you can pick up your house once every 10 years!!!!

Dealing mostly with trees and brush I needed a Grapple Bucket, and Power Trac was the only one of these small compact tractors to offer one from the manufacturer. It is most important to be able to control your load, and locking the load in with the Grapple is so much easier to use than an open bucket or forks would be. (The grapples do not deform when clamping down on an uneven load.) I recently moved a log 13" X 18'-7" long through my woods, over branches, smaller logs, rocks, and across a debris filled ditch with excellent control, and without needing to stop or reload it. With the low center of gravity of the PT-425, this load never felt the least bit tipsy even when raised nearly 5’ to clear some bushes on the uneven ground. Being able to shift the load sideways and to make tight winding turns helps a lot. I can zig-zag a load between trees which are closer together than the width of the load!

The all-wheel drive provides plenty of traction to my bar tires, and will confidently traverse some pretty challenging terrain with, or without, a load. At the extreme, one of the tires will slowly start to churn the ground but it never spins the tire! Articulation makes getting out of nasty spots a snap! Multiple trips over the same path leaves little or no damage. In really tight areas a log can be pinched on the end between the grapple tooth and the bucket tooth, and dragged out endwise.

I use a "suicide knob" in my left hand so I can keep my right hand on the joystick. If something unusual happens, I can easily drop the load by hitting the float, but I haven’t needed to yet! Simple two hand, two foot operation!

For dirt work just leave the grapple in the up position and use the bucket with it's rock teeth for HD digging!

It even works quite well as a man lift, with the bucket bottom level and the raised Grapple teeth acting as a handrail!!

Sooooo, my point is that there is a lot more to having a useful tractor with a FEL than what the tractor’s lifting capacity is!! Look at the tractors, look at YOUR jobs, and decide what the best match is!!

PS: When comparing prices be sure to include the FEL and the attachments. The more jobs your tractor can help you with, the lower the real cost.

PPS: I use 7# of air in the rear bar tires, and 14# in the front bar tires. This gives me a soft ride and full width contact patches when unloaded, while preventing front sidewall damage and rear narrow contact patches when heavily loaded.

.

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MossRoad · Mar 18, 2004

Here's a link to a movie of my PT425 moving a big log. This huge log is 27" in diameter at the narrow end, 37" in diameter at the wide end and 53" long. It was sitting in my back yard for a few years. I can't estimate the weight, but I can only budge one end a couple of inches with my 200+ pounds on the end of a 5 foot pry bar. I used the pallet forks, lifted it about 6 inches and backed up, which caused the right rear tire to come off the ground a few inches. I lowered it down to 1 inch off the ground and the tractor came back down. Took it away like this. The movie is in Windows Media Format(WMV) and takes about 2.5 minutes to download via 28.8 dialup and is about 36 seconds long.

If anyone doubts the power of these little tigers, they need to watch this movie. It really is an impressive little machine. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

toolz_not_toyz · Mar 19, 2004

( I could perhaps lift more with some weight added to the rear (1# added to the rear increases lift by ~2#), but I don't need the hassle of maybe repairing or replacing overloaded damaged parts! )

I guess that's a good point. I have asked about adding weight in one of my very first posts. I thought it might be handy if there were a suitcase bracket at the back. But then you get into the problem you are referring to where you could end up overloading the equipment.

( I use a "suicide knob" in my left hand so I can keep my right hand on the joystick.)

This is a worthy addition for anyone that's using forks or the mini-hoe. I've never driven a forklift that didn't have one.

(
For dirt work just leave the grapple in the up position and use the bucket with it's rock teeth for HD digging! )

Wait! In a previous thread where I wondered about rock teeth MR noted that these weren't really for digging, they were for scooping up rock. I thought they were for digging into compacted soil, hard clay, etc. I've seen bobcats and much larger equipment around here that have had teeth on their buckets, but after that first thread I concluded they must be different teeth. Now I'm confused again.

(
Sooooo, my point is that there is a lot more to having a useful tractor with a FEL than what the tractor’s lifting capacity is!! Look at the tractors, look at YOUR jobs, and decide what the best match is!!
)

Oh, I totally 1000% agree. I just didn't have a clue as to what the lifting capacity would be on these things. My exposure to lifting capacity dates back several years where I used to work in a warehouse and drove forklifts with a lifting capacity rated in tons. I spent 10 - 12 hrs/day on something like this:

http://www.directindustry.com/prod/2t_5t_reach_trucks_40160.html

So 800lbs to me is pretty much nothing. Especially when you consider the weight of coarse aggregate!

MossRoad · Mar 19, 2004

My emotions about the teeth are mixed. They are rounded at the front, not pointed or chisel like. If I pull up to a pile of large rocks with a straight edged bucket, I have a hard time getting rocks into the bucket. The rock teeth help because they go inbetween the rocks and jostle them around so they go into the bucket much better than attempting this with a straight edge.

However, in really hard soil, like what's under our softball diamond, the straigh edge actually did better than the rock teeth.

I would like to get some teeth off of a back hoe bucket and put them on the PT bucket and see how they do compared to the rock teeth.

Maybe Paul could show us a close up of the teeth on the mini-hoe sometime. I'll bet they are much different than the rock teeth.

johara1 · Mar 19, 2004

i think the lift cap. for the422 is 800 lb. a kabota bx 22 is 520lb. and the bx 15 is 480lb. if you set MR and me on the back of the 422 it will lift a ton /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

toolz_not_toyz · Mar 19, 2004

Wow. That much of a difference between these machines and they're all in the same price range. The PT never ceases to amaze!

pajoube · Mar 19, 2004

Will take some pictures tomorrow morning and post of the teeth.
PJ

FOURTEEN · Mar 20, 2004

.

My neighbor, Danny, who has owned 63 tractors so far and usually spends several hours a day on one, immediately upon trying my Grapple Bucket remarked that it needed sharpening! He has achieved excellent results by grinding every edge, bottom and sides of buckets, and sides of rock teeth, with a chisel-like one bevel 45 degree cut, like a lawnmower blade. With his straight bucket, like our PT LM bucket, he can easily cut sod strips. The sharp bottom edge slices under the roots while the sharp side edges cut clean strips that are folded into the bucket!! He does this when he needs to dig a trench or large hole in an established lawn, so that the sod can be saved and easily replaced after the area is backfilled.

I haven't sharpened either of my buckets or teeth yet, but I definitely have it on my to do list.

Also, on dirt tip the bucket down so that the rock teeth are vertical, and scrape along like a large HD rake. In my pre-tractor days most of my earth moving was done with a garden fork and a rake!

.

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pajoube · Mar 20, 2004

Here is an up close look at the mini hoe teeth.
PJ

toolz_not_toyz · Mar 20, 2004

And rock teeth and the edge of the buckets are all replaceable right? The rock teeth are of course because you have to buy them separately. But how about the buckets? Is there a replaceable edge or is it the type of thing where it's time to remember all we learned in shop?

pajoube · Mar 20, 2004

None replacable teeth on the mini hoe. But the thickness of the steel makes it a very long time before I call a welder for assistance. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
PJ