pto backup generator

[Sawyer Rob]

Then again, my wife was capable of learning how to do it and has no problem with it... (I chose wisely grasshopper)

BUT, We are not power hungry people, so there's no rush to have the power back on...

SR

 

[Fallon]

I can get ethanol free also, but plan to do 10% or less. I am treating with PRI-G fuel treatment. Have seen videos and reviews that say it’s amazing.

Unless I know we are gonna be our for a really long time, we will probably keep it running most of the time for tv and all the other conveniences.

Really consider ethanol free if you can get it. Alcohol is hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs moisture. It will pull humidity out of the air. Then you end up with contaminated fuel that causes rust issues in the tank & equipment. It's not a big issue in vehicles as they have pressurized tanks so less humidity goes in & out as tempature cycling causes the tank to breath. Also they tend to be used more often. But ethanol & its water absorbing ways is the number one killer of small equipment engines these days.

 

[robertm]

I just recently setup a generator for the house.

Wanted easiest setup for wife or anyone I needed to set it up when I am out of town.

It’s a champion power equipment model 100110 ( 9,200 running watts, 11,500 max watts). I have a interlock switch to prevent the main breaker and generator breaker from being able to be on at the same time.

I am currently keeping 28 gallons of fuel on hand with a full tank ( 7.7 gallons) in the portable generator. It is said to get 10 hours at 50% load on the 7.7 gallons. So I got just under 5 full tanks/ 50 hours of fuel available. I am looking into a 55 gallon drum to store more fuel.

Overall, it’s simple to setup and get on line, runs all but my stove, oven m, dryer and AC. I can run some of the stove but not all.

I don’t want to loose wattage output by converting to LP or NG. Happy with the setup overall. $3,500 at most invested. View attachment 569878

I bought the same generator. Never unboxed it. After looking into the transfer switch, minimal circuits, the cost of wire to mount a box in the garage instead of buying a bologna cable to drag out in the storm (and have lifted if not watched), the fact it is useless when no one is home, and a whole house genset was barely 2x the price for unmanned power, I took it back. I just couldn't see spending that kind of cash for a genset I needed to be home to set up if power went down. This is for all non-standby generators. When we are out of town camping, skiing, or whatever, no one can come to start it to keep my pipes from freezing, or losing $1,000 of groceries and beef, or keep the sump pump running. I'm not getting younger, and there is no way years from now I'm dragging out a portable. The whole house standby just made sense.
Then, the wife lost her job, and we decided to hold off on the standby after we had priced the genset installed, had three friends and family members ready to do gensets at once. Everyone but us went ahead. Two years later, we are still sweating out storms, and debating our next move. I've gone between PTO units and portable units and standby units about a thousand times. It still comes down to "you gotta be home" for anything less than standby units.

 

[J.Wal]

I bought the same generator. Never unboxed it. After looking into the transfer switch, minimal circuits, the cost of wire to mount a box in the garage instead of buying a bologna cable to drag out in the storm (and have lifted if not watched), the fact it is useless when no one is home, and a whole house genset was barely 2x the price for unmanned power, I took it back. I just couldn't see spending that kind of cash for a genset I needed to be home to set up if power went down. This is for all non-standby generators. When we are out of town camping, skiing, or whatever, no one can come to start it to keep my pipes from freezing, or losing $1,000 of groceries and beef, or keep the sump pump running. I'm not getting younger, and there is no way years from now I'm dragging out a portable. The whole house standby just made sense.
Then, the wife lost her job, and we decided to hold off on the standby after we had priced the genset installed, had three friends and family members ready to do gensets at once. Everyone but us went ahead. Two years later, we are still sweating out storms, and debating our next move. I've gone between PTO units and portable units and standby units about a thousand times. It still comes down to "you gotta be home" for anything less than standby units.

I priced a whole home full auto setup.... $11,750 cash installed.... that’s if my natural gas meter was big enough ( they didn’t think it would be) and placing it on the bedroom side of the house near gas meter instead of opposite side of the house to keep noise away from bedrooms.

I am more often in town than not and when not home, I have someone house sitting. I have step by step instructions on the breaker box so it’s not hard for anyone to get up and going.

While I would love whole home, auto setup.... the wife and I decided it wasn’t work the cost.

 

[dnw64]

(I chose wisely grasshopper)

I did too...

 

[dnw64]

I priced a whole home full auto setup.... $11,750 cash installed....

I am in the last stages of setting up a 20KW Cummins whole house stand-by genset.

Generator w/200A ATS - $4400
Concrete and form boards for pad - $75
New propane install* - $1695
Electrical** - $850
Total cost - $7020
Value - priceless

I prepped the site, poured the concrete, placed and secured the genset. Everything else was subbed.

*the original 120 gallon tank was not big enough, and too close to my preferred install location. I had a 500 gallon tank installed about 100' away.
**there was an existing manual transfer switch, so a little bit of $$ was saved on wire and labor compared to a brand new install, but probably not more than $200.

 

[CobyRupert]

I bought the same generator. Never unboxed it. After looking into the transfer switch, minimal circuits, the cost of wire to mount a box in the garage instead of buying a bologna cable to drag out in the storm (and have lifted if not watched), the fact it is useless when no one is home, and a whole house genset was barely 2x the price for unmanned power, I took it back. I just couldn't see spending that kind of cash for a genset I needed to be home to set up if power went down. This is for all non-standby generators. When we are out of town camping, skiing, or whatever, no one can come to start it to keep my pipes from freezing, or losing $1,000 of groceries and beef, or keep the sump pump running. I'm not getting younger, and there is no way years from now I'm dragging out a portable. The whole house standby just made sense.
Then, the wife lost her job, and we decided to hold off on the standby after we had priced the genset installed, had three friends and family members ready to do gensets at once. Everyone but us went ahead. Two years later, we are still sweating out storms, and debating our next move. I've gone between PTO units and portable units and standby units about a thousand times. It still comes down to "you gotta be home" for anything less than standby units.

You make good points about needing it to operate when no one is home to prevent frozen pipes; food spoilage, sump pump, but even in those cases don't you only need power for a couple hours each day? Would generator run for 24 hours a day when no one is home? Regardless if it's even freezing out? Or if sump pump is needed etc..
Then, how do you know if it successfully started, stayed running?

 

[ruffdog]

Many good points being made on this thread. Each household is different with different circumstances and needs. :drink:

 

[dnw64]

Many good points being made on this thread. Each household is different with different circumstances and needs. :drink:

+1
...

 

[robertm]

You make good points about needing it to operate when no one is home to prevent frozen pipes; food spoilage, sump pump, but even in those cases don't you only need power for a couple hours each day? Would generator run for 24 hours a day when no one is home? Regardless if it's even freezing out? Or if sump pump is needed etc..
Then, how do you know if it successfully started, stayed running?

The typical standby genset comes on when it senses grid power is lost and shuts down after is senses grid power restored. It doesn't just run until someone shuts it off. Yes, it'd run if no one is home, but power is needed while you're gone, so no big deal. If you are splitting hairs on only needing power to cover during the outage for individual needs and devices, then you likely don't mind cycling a portable to cover the power outage. Standby sets make for seamless electrical service, no real disruption, and let life go on as normal. No starting/stopping/refueling/cords/etc. As for knowing if it's running? Generac, and I'd suspect others, send messages through an app to your cell phone. My family and friends that got gensets when I didn't get notices for every weekly exercise (results, too), power outage, power restore, genset running, and service notices.

 

[dnw64]

As for knowing if it's running? Generac, and I'd suspect others, send messages through an app to your cell phone.

Fur sure, Cummins. No doubt all other major players as well.

 

[CobyRupert]

My point was if there’s a multiple day outage when nobody is home, the generator runs 24 hours a day.
Seems like only minimal (~1/2 hour, ~2-3 times a day?) duty is required.
I guess if you have a sump that takes in a lot of water, or a leaky fridge/freezer, it may need to run more.
Seems like a lot of waste.

 

[robertm]

My point was if there’s a multiple day outage when nobody is home, the generator runs 24 hours a day.
Seems like only minimal (~1/2 hour, ~2-3 times a day?) duty is required.
I guess if you have a sump that takes in a lot of water, or a leaky fridge/freezer, it may need to run more.
Seems like a lot of waste.

I see your point. The downside of no power when not home may be worse than it running if your not home and don't care. Frankly, I'll take the chance here in the Midwest. But, I have no generator yet.

 

[dnw64]

My point was if there’s a multiple day outage when nobody is home, the generator runs 24 hours a day.
Seems like only minimal (~1/2 hour, ~2-3 times a day?) duty is required.
I guess if you have a sump that takes in a lot of water, or a leaky fridge/freezer, it may need to run more.
Seems like a lot of waste.

I suppose an alternative is a phone-tied system that calls a number when there's an outage, which notifies a service* who sends someone out to start your PTO (or other manually operated generator) three times a day for a half hour. Somehow I think that would quickly add up to more than the additional cost of installing a standby generator (even running 24/7 as long as needed).

*That assumes the availability (and reliability) of such a service in your area...

 

[cdaigle430]

I priced a whole home full auto setup.... $11,750 cash installed.... that痴 if my natural gas meter was big enough ( they didn稚 think it would be) and placing it on the bedroom side of the house near gas meter instead of opposite side of the house to keep noise away from bedrooms.

I am more often in town than not and when not home, I have someone house sitting. I have step by step instructions on the breaker box so it痴 not hard for anyone to get up and going.

While I would love whole home, auto setup.... the wife and I decided it wasn稚 work the cost.

My Generic 16kw is quiet enough and we have it on the bedroom side of the house-we can sleep soundly knowing she is working for us I got lucky and sized up my NG line and meter before I had it installed. Should be 7 water columns for a gas furnace and 16kw Generac generator. I am sooooo excited not having to get up in the storm or freezing cold to startup my portable generator or PTO. My tractor with snowblower can sleep soundly until needed And of course no refueling required! I still have my portable generator if required and a battery pack for my pellet stove.
My only issue is I would like to install a 15kw solar system next year-but, how to incorporate all this together? Or will the solar panels make the Generac obsolete.....I don't know yet.

 

[dnw64]

My only issue is I would like to install a 15kw solar system next year-but, how to incorporate all this together? Or will the solar panels make the Generac obsolete.....I don't know yet.

Short answer, NO.

Unless you want to spend a hundred grand (or more - I know someone who recently spent roughly double that just on batteries, for their house) on batteries, power from solar doesn't last long when the sun don't shine...

IMO any off-grid power system needs AT LEAST two sources of power. You will never have any one at all times. Wind, water, sun - they all tend to have different cycles, even with two "alternative" sources I would still want a generator.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I am sooooo excited not having to get up in the storm or freezing cold to startup my portable generator or PTO..

What REALLY excites me is, I don't have to pay that HUGE ridiculous gas bill at the end of the month, because I was too lazy to go out and start my generator! lol

SR

 

[dnw64]

What REALLY excites me is, I don't have to pay that HUGE ridiculous gas bill at the end of the month, because I was too lazy to go out and start my generator! lol

SR

There is that.

And then you can take all that money you saved from not putting in a standby system AND the fuel to run it needlessly, and buy another tractor or implement. Or put in a an automatic beer dispenser, take a vacation in Tahiti (well, maybe better not in case the power goes out while you're away for a month), or whatever.

As they say, different strokes for different folk (not saying you're different, btw).

 

[Fallon]

Short answer, NO.

Unless you want to spend a hundred grand (or more - I know someone who recently spent roughly double that just on batteries, for their house) on batteries, power from solar doesn't last long when the sun don't shine...

IMO any off-grid power system needs AT LEAST two sources of power. You will never have any one at all times. Wind, water, sun - they all tend to have different cycles, even with two "alternative" sources I would still want a generator.

My 9.8kw grid tied system was about $30k. Had to reinforce the barn roof ($4k) & about 2-3k to install a 400@ disconnect & proper sized 100@ service to the barn (in addition to the solar wiring).

As it's a grid tied system, it effectively uses the grid as a battery. Due to synchronizing with the grids 60hz & not killing lineman restoring the grid, my inverter goes offline as soon as the grid does.

I'd be looking at several grand for a new inverter & probably as much for a battery charging & management system. Pure guess, but I'm betting over $10k for batteries.

As others have said you need a backup system to charge the batteries if the panels are covered in snow or clouds. My 25kw PTO generator could do it, but wouldnt be optimal.

Generally I'm happy with my solar power system. Until we got air conditioning we had a net surplus. Paying the power company a bit more than I'd like this hit summer though.

 

[dnw64]

I'd be looking at several grand for a new inverter & probably as much for a battery charging & management system. Pure guess, but I'm betting over $10k for batteries.

As others have said you need a backup system to charge the batteries if the panels are covered in snow or clouds. My 25kw PTO generator could do it, but wouldnt be optimal.

As you suggest, an off-grid system REQUIRES batteries. How much is the question.

Here in the NE we often have a week or more where there is little/no appreciable solar gain. If you want to get through that with no dead dinosaurs sacrificed you will need a huge battery bank (which, ironically requires the sacrifice of many dead dinosaurs) OR be willing to light candles and go without ice cubes, plus other assorted mild inconveniences.