I am looking for a PTO generator and looking at the Winco 25 KV. I only really need a 12 KV; however, they tell me the 25KV has a higher resale, sells quicker and cost only $300 more. The question that I asked, will my TC 33 (24HP PTO) still be able to support a 12 KV load off this generator? They tell me it will - any thoughts?
Generator PTO generator
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nicklan
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I realize this is no help at all, but I have the same idea, can I turn a bigger generator (25k) slower? under a load to get 12-15k? Marty, is this what you are asking?
Nick
Nick
ns_in_tex
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I think the rule of thumb is 2 PTO HP per kw. So I guess if your tractor is rated at 24 PTO hp (not engine hp) it should do the job. I recently purchased a 17.5 KW from Genpower for 2500.00, mounted on trailer, pto shaft, shipping, ETC. I think their 12 KW was about 2200.00 & 25 KW was 2900.00 at the time.
I suppose you know that as long as you don't gen the full KW, the HP requirement is less. I hooked up my generator to my old David Brown 770 & it worked great with a 10 KW load, but when I kicked in another 5 KW load, it bogged down. The RPM's are fairly critical to hold a constant voltage & Hertz.
So if I want to use the full load I will have to hook it to another tractor.
Good Luck & good shopping.
PS: These are shipped out of VA. They are brushless generators, so I hope they are low maintance.
I suppose you know that as long as you don't gen the full KW, the HP requirement is less. I hooked up my generator to my old David Brown 770 & it worked great with a 10 KW load, but when I kicked in another 5 KW load, it bogged down. The RPM's are fairly critical to hold a constant voltage & Hertz.
So if I want to use the full load I will have to hook it to another tractor.
Good Luck & good shopping.
PS: These are shipped out of VA. They are brushless generators, so I hope they are low maintance.
The generator should be operated at a constant speed regardless of load. The more electrical load (KW) connected requires more HP to maintain proper speed. You can always use a generator at less than rated KW and it will require proportionately less HP.
Anonymous Poster
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i have a generac 25 kw unit i hook to my new holland 1520- with 19 pto hp. it runs the house pretty well, as long as they dont try to use the clothes dryer with everything else in the house. you still have to turn 540 rpm at the pto no matter how much hp you have. and i would reccomend that you get a frequency meter if there is not one built into the generator, the generac has one built in. it is easiest to keep proper power output with the frequency meter and help prevent brown out of your equipment which is very hard on electronics and motors. i have been able to set mine at about 1.5% over frequency and this gives me plenty of power for motor start up and different loads as refrigerators and pumps cycle on and off. as the different thigs are working in the house, i have observed that the frequency never droops below about 59HZ so i dont brown out the motors on start up.
how are you going to hook it to your house? i have a gentran panel that works very well, easy to use have taught my wife and kids to hook it up if i am out of town, i would reccomend it.
alex
how are you going to hook it to your house? i have a gentran panel that works very well, easy to use have taught my wife and kids to hook it up if i am out of town, i would reccomend it.
alex
nicklan
Silver Member
Alco141,
What all do you run? (well, furnace, frig, tv's, computer etc.)
Does your transfer panel run your whole house or just parts?
Thanks
Nick
What all do you run? (well, furnace, frig, tv's, computer etc.)
Does your transfer panel run your whole house or just parts?
Thanks
Nick
Anonymous Poster
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Re: PTO generator what i run?
the generator will run all essential pieces of equipment in the house, refrig. , furnaces , lights and well pump, freezer, tv, computer, microwave, kitchen, bath and bedrooms and livingroom outlets and lights, garage outlets, aux wood furnace,dishwasher, clothes washer, clothes dryer. when you run the dryer you dont have much in the way of amps for anything else. also have the ability to run the electric water heater, although i have never needed it as the power has never been off long enough to deplete the tank. i could add about six circuits to the panel if i use half breakers, although i havent found much that i need to run in the short term that i cant run an extension cord to do. except for the clothes dryer and the hot water heater everything runs off the pto generator at one time. i can also run my shop from the generator welder, air compressor, power up the lights, heat, outlets.
i have also a 4000 watt coleman that will run the house/ shop, if i need to move the pto setup, or the tractor is in use. i bought the pto generator because it was too good a deal to pass up, i just sort of fell into it by accident. i initially planned on just using the coleman, but with the pto setup, i have all the power i want, and it is essentially maintenence free. i hook it up a couple times a year for a few hours, otherwise it sits under a tarp in the shed unless there is a power outage.
i will tell you this is a serious piece of industrial equipment, weighs about 500 lbs without the trailer, and if i ever decide to trade up the tractor, i will get more generating capacity besides.
the gentran panel has meters on both hot legs to balance the load, but i havent had to watch that as the loads seem to be reasonabley distributed when they were hooked up. i would definitely reccomend this type of panel unless you are doing a new installation. there are a few lights and things that dont work with my set up, but these are minor inconviences, i did not hook up the oven or stovetop to the circuits, with the microwave you can get a meal ready, i figured if i needed to i have a coleman stove i could use to cook on if the power was out for an extended time. i have extra half breakers so that i could add circuits if i need to. check out the gentran site to see about the panels, northern tool sells them.
alex
the generator will run all essential pieces of equipment in the house, refrig. , furnaces , lights and well pump, freezer, tv, computer, microwave, kitchen, bath and bedrooms and livingroom outlets and lights, garage outlets, aux wood furnace,dishwasher, clothes washer, clothes dryer. when you run the dryer you dont have much in the way of amps for anything else. also have the ability to run the electric water heater, although i have never needed it as the power has never been off long enough to deplete the tank. i could add about six circuits to the panel if i use half breakers, although i havent found much that i need to run in the short term that i cant run an extension cord to do. except for the clothes dryer and the hot water heater everything runs off the pto generator at one time. i can also run my shop from the generator welder, air compressor, power up the lights, heat, outlets.
i have also a 4000 watt coleman that will run the house/ shop, if i need to move the pto setup, or the tractor is in use. i bought the pto generator because it was too good a deal to pass up, i just sort of fell into it by accident. i initially planned on just using the coleman, but with the pto setup, i have all the power i want, and it is essentially maintenence free. i hook it up a couple times a year for a few hours, otherwise it sits under a tarp in the shed unless there is a power outage.
i will tell you this is a serious piece of industrial equipment, weighs about 500 lbs without the trailer, and if i ever decide to trade up the tractor, i will get more generating capacity besides.
the gentran panel has meters on both hot legs to balance the load, but i havent had to watch that as the loads seem to be reasonabley distributed when they were hooked up. i would definitely reccomend this type of panel unless you are doing a new installation. there are a few lights and things that dont work with my set up, but these are minor inconviences, i did not hook up the oven or stovetop to the circuits, with the microwave you can get a meal ready, i figured if i needed to i have a coleman stove i could use to cook on if the power was out for an extended time. i have extra half breakers so that i could add circuits if i need to. check out the gentran site to see about the panels, northern tool sells them.
alex
nicklan
Silver Member
Re: PTO generator what i run?
Alex,
Thanks for the info, what make of generator do you have?
Thanks
Nick
Alex,
Thanks for the info, what make of generator do you have?
Thanks
Nick
Anonymous Poster
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Re: PTO generator what i run?
generac 25 kw mounted on a trailer
generac 25 kw mounted on a trailer
pajoube
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Re: PTO generator what i run?
You mention you also have a Coleman 4000 watt generator. I have been looking at generators for home backup at Northern Tool and notice they have a number of higher rated units (not coleman) for about the same price as the Coleman 4000. Going up to 10,000 watts a better deal? or is that over kill considering it is used for short periods of power outages? I would need to run a well pump, heat, frig. lights, freezer, hot water heater at this point.
PJ
You mention you also have a Coleman 4000 watt generator. I have been looking at generators for home backup at Northern Tool and notice they have a number of higher rated units (not coleman) for about the same price as the Coleman 4000. Going up to 10,000 watts a better deal? or is that over kill considering it is used for short periods of power outages? I would need to run a well pump, heat, frig. lights, freezer, hot water heater at this point.
PJ
skipperbrown
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Re: PTO generator what i run?
Add up your requirements and you'll see you need a lot more than 4000 watts. A water heater alone uses 4000w. Well pumps use a lot of watts and motors like in fridges required a high start amp draw. You probably need something in the 8-10 kw area.
I have a 7.5 kw for my place and it ran the water heater, fridge, lights, fans, computers, everything but the range and a/c. I recently moved and now have a gas water heater so my 7.5 kw is overkill and a waste of resources. However, if you err, err on having too much power.
mark
Add up your requirements and you'll see you need a lot more than 4000 watts. A water heater alone uses 4000w. Well pumps use a lot of watts and motors like in fridges required a high start amp draw. You probably need something in the 8-10 kw area.
I have a 7.5 kw for my place and it ran the water heater, fridge, lights, fans, computers, everything but the range and a/c. I recently moved and now have a gas water heater so my 7.5 kw is overkill and a waste of resources. However, if you err, err on having too much power.
mark
Anonymous Poster
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Re: PTO generator what i run?
i have had numerous generators over the years, when i first moved here i had very frequent power outages, now that i have obtained all the necessary equipment and transfer panel, etc we dont seem to have them as often. to answer your question, you need to think about the things that need to run at the same time, you dont need to run the water heater all the time, you dont need to run the well pump all the time, so try to group the uses so that you can run a few things at a time (use less power need smaller generator), that is where the transfer switch allows you to turn off different items and turn on others. the other option is to buy enough generator to run everything at once (you will also need to store fuel).
the next thing to think about is how often do you experience power outages, once a month, once a year, and how long do they last, a few hours, days, and third who is going to run the equipment, you , your wife, your kids.
with these questions answered you can start to make your choices. if you need reliable power for prolonged periods then you may invest more in the setup. if it will need to run when you are not home, and your wife/kids would be challenged to turn off and on the different circuits then you need to go whole house (larger generator), would your wife/kids be able to hook up the pto generator, maybe not, so a independant unit would be best for them. on wheels in the garage, so they can easily move it outside and plug it in and start it (you may need electric start).
a friend of mine just put in a self contained unit, auto transfer switch, nat. gas powered. so his family will not have to touch it, it will just run, and even if no one is at home it will work.
so you see you have a lot of deciding to do depending on the use, and the intended operator. i have taught my daughters and wife how to hook up the generator, they can wheel it outside, plug it in, start it, switch the load over to the gen circuits, and i practice with them 3-4 times a year so they remember if i am not here to do it. my generator will run the house pretty much except the airconditioning( and i could hook that up if i needed to).
as far as hot water you wont need to heat it as it will stay hot for some hours, unless you use it a lot or the power is out for an extended period. the coleman will be relegated to the reserve status soon as i have found a winco dyna trifuel for a song. so i will be moving up to the 9kw range as the fellow needs to move and cant take the generator with him and needs to unload it quickly, hardly used, electric start so the girls can handle it easily.
i would allow you and your pocketbook to make the decision about what to buy, i have been fortunate to find things that were a good deals and so i havent invested a lot in the generator sets. get a good installation on the transfer panel and you are set.
i dont know if i have helped you with my ramblings, good luck.
alex
i have had numerous generators over the years, when i first moved here i had very frequent power outages, now that i have obtained all the necessary equipment and transfer panel, etc we dont seem to have them as often. to answer your question, you need to think about the things that need to run at the same time, you dont need to run the water heater all the time, you dont need to run the well pump all the time, so try to group the uses so that you can run a few things at a time (use less power need smaller generator), that is where the transfer switch allows you to turn off different items and turn on others. the other option is to buy enough generator to run everything at once (you will also need to store fuel).
the next thing to think about is how often do you experience power outages, once a month, once a year, and how long do they last, a few hours, days, and third who is going to run the equipment, you , your wife, your kids.
with these questions answered you can start to make your choices. if you need reliable power for prolonged periods then you may invest more in the setup. if it will need to run when you are not home, and your wife/kids would be challenged to turn off and on the different circuits then you need to go whole house (larger generator), would your wife/kids be able to hook up the pto generator, maybe not, so a independant unit would be best for them. on wheels in the garage, so they can easily move it outside and plug it in and start it (you may need electric start).
a friend of mine just put in a self contained unit, auto transfer switch, nat. gas powered. so his family will not have to touch it, it will just run, and even if no one is at home it will work.
so you see you have a lot of deciding to do depending on the use, and the intended operator. i have taught my daughters and wife how to hook up the generator, they can wheel it outside, plug it in, start it, switch the load over to the gen circuits, and i practice with them 3-4 times a year so they remember if i am not here to do it. my generator will run the house pretty much except the airconditioning( and i could hook that up if i needed to).
as far as hot water you wont need to heat it as it will stay hot for some hours, unless you use it a lot or the power is out for an extended period. the coleman will be relegated to the reserve status soon as i have found a winco dyna trifuel for a song. so i will be moving up to the 9kw range as the fellow needs to move and cant take the generator with him and needs to unload it quickly, hardly used, electric start so the girls can handle it easily.
i would allow you and your pocketbook to make the decision about what to buy, i have been fortunate to find things that were a good deals and so i havent invested a lot in the generator sets. get a good installation on the transfer panel and you are set.
i dont know if i have helped you with my ramblings, good luck.
alex
pajoube
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Re: PTO generator what i run?
Alco and Skipperbrown
You guys have been great with your advise, it is much appreciated.
Re-thinking my needs, only a few items need to be working at one time and with the transfer switch the lower watt generator may work just fine. Will also look at price range of the upper units. The power outage times per year are not many. You only need one big one and you will have some big repair bills. In Montana the outage occures in winter which compounds the problems.
PJ
Alco and Skipperbrown
You guys have been great with your advise, it is much appreciated.
Re-thinking my needs, only a few items need to be working at one time and with the transfer switch the lower watt generator may work just fine. Will also look at price range of the upper units. The power outage times per year are not many. You only need one big one and you will have some big repair bills. In Montana the outage occures in winter which compounds the problems.
PJ
Anonymous Poster
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Re: PTO generator what i run?
dont forget to include the transfer panel in the cost, also unless you are handy you will need someone to hook it all up. the gentran panel i have is an easy hookup, i did not have the time so i had an electrician do it, he had it done ifn about 4 hours. check out the web site to see if this would be something that you would tackle, they have instructions posted.
and good luck, the generator has been good for my family and home. also remember that you will need to store fuel for the generator unless you go with a propane or nat. gas unit. and this adds to the cost also.
if you have any other questions this board has been very helpfull.
alex
dont forget to include the transfer panel in the cost, also unless you are handy you will need someone to hook it all up. the gentran panel i have is an easy hookup, i did not have the time so i had an electrician do it, he had it done ifn about 4 hours. check out the web site to see if this would be something that you would tackle, they have instructions posted.
and good luck, the generator has been good for my family and home. also remember that you will need to store fuel for the generator unless you go with a propane or nat. gas unit. and this adds to the cost also.
if you have any other questions this board has been very helpfull.
alex
skipperbrown
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Re: PTO generator what i run?
What a lot of guys here along the coast do is back feed their generators through a 240v plug. Usually the clothes dryer plug. However, you MUST MUST MUST break the line to your power company or your generator will try to light up the neighborhood grid and you will electrocute an unfortunate lineman who is repairing the fault. Generally, this is done by flipping the main circuit breaker at the entrance service or the failsafe method is to remove the meter. It ain't code and it ain't OSHA, but it is very effective and a lot cheaper than a transfer switch.
Of course, I personally have never done such a thing.
mark
What a lot of guys here along the coast do is back feed their generators through a 240v plug. Usually the clothes dryer plug. However, you MUST MUST MUST break the line to your power company or your generator will try to light up the neighborhood grid and you will electrocute an unfortunate lineman who is repairing the fault. Generally, this is done by flipping the main circuit breaker at the entrance service or the failsafe method is to remove the meter. It ain't code and it ain't OSHA, but it is very effective and a lot cheaper than a transfer switch.
Of course, I personally have never done such a thing.
mark
pajoube
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Re: PTO generator what i run?
Great advise, thanks
PJ
Great advise, thanks
PJ
Anonymous Poster
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ABSOLUTELY DONT BACKFEED A GENERATOR!!!
backfeeding a generator is a very bad idea, is directly prohibited by the national electric code, is extremely dangerous to you , your loved ones, a well intentioned neighbor, you utility workers, you could kill someone, in which case you would be held criminally responsable and could go to prison. you could burn down your house, which your home owners insurance may not cover it due to your recklessness, you could set your generator on fire, a costly proposition. i would definately suggest that you put in an approved transfer switch, dont turn an inconveniece into a major tragedy, always do it the proper way, the life you save may be your own, or your local utility worker.
i have seen this talked about on various forums, every electrician who has responded has said the same things i have. IT IS ALWAYS SAFER AND CHEAPER TO DO THINGS THE PROPER WAY IN THE LONG RUN.
ALEX
backfeeding a generator is a very bad idea, is directly prohibited by the national electric code, is extremely dangerous to you , your loved ones, a well intentioned neighbor, you utility workers, you could kill someone, in which case you would be held criminally responsable and could go to prison. you could burn down your house, which your home owners insurance may not cover it due to your recklessness, you could set your generator on fire, a costly proposition. i would definately suggest that you put in an approved transfer switch, dont turn an inconveniece into a major tragedy, always do it the proper way, the life you save may be your own, or your local utility worker.
i have seen this talked about on various forums, every electrician who has responded has said the same things i have. IT IS ALWAYS SAFER AND CHEAPER TO DO THINGS THE PROPER WAY IN THE LONG RUN.
ALEX
Inspector507
Super Member
Re: PTO generator what i run?
Whatever you do.........DON'T skimp on a tranfer setup of some kind. Go to a smaller generator and power up one less piece of equipment if you have to. With electricity, going the cheaper or easier route could be deadly. The one time you forget to manually disconnect the back feed will be the time some unsuspecting lineman trying to restore your power will get it.
Whatever you do.........DON'T skimp on a tranfer setup of some kind. Go to a smaller generator and power up one less piece of equipment if you have to. With electricity, going the cheaper or easier route could be deadly. The one time you forget to manually disconnect the back feed will be the time some unsuspecting lineman trying to restore your power will get it.
pajoube
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Re: ABSOLUTELY DONT BACKFEED A GENERATOR!!!
I couldn't agree with you more. Good commentary, thanks.
PJ
I couldn't agree with you more. Good commentary, thanks.
PJ
MossRoad
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Re: ABSOLUTELY DONT BACKFEED A GENERATOR!!!
Yes, that is very good advice.
There was a major tornado outbreak here last October. Many many people had generators running and I doubt that 1% of them had them hooked up legally OR correctly. Several fires and cases of several houses mysteriously getting power. Turned out it came from a neighbor's generator back feeding the main lines.
There was also a case of someone running the generator in a garage. The dad went to work and the wife started the generator and closed the garage door because so many generators were getting stolen. The dad called home and got no answer. He called someone else to go to the house and check on them. Twin girls passed out on the couch and the mom sprawled out on the kitchen floor. Fortunately, they were able to revive them and they all recovered.
Yes, that is very good advice.
There was a major tornado outbreak here last October. Many many people had generators running and I doubt that 1% of them had them hooked up legally OR correctly. Several fires and cases of several houses mysteriously getting power. Turned out it came from a neighbor's generator back feeding the main lines.
There was also a case of someone running the generator in a garage. The dad went to work and the wife started the generator and closed the garage door because so many generators were getting stolen. The dad called home and got no answer. He called someone else to go to the house and check on them. Twin girls passed out on the couch and the mom sprawled out on the kitchen floor. Fortunately, they were able to revive them and they all recovered.
