PTO Generator?

[Lyrch75]

We have a standby-genset 40KW powered by a 4.6L JD engine. This will run the entire place without a hiccup.
It costs about $12 a month on the electric bill for its heating unit and about that much in diesel for its weekly cycling. Instant on and the ability to run everything is great.

That said am currently working with an electrician to put in a smaller sub panel that will have the basics of the home on it to allow me to hook up a smaller unit to it, as the big boy is a bit conspicuous and drinks the fuel at a good clip when you are going day in day out.
Thinking leave the big boy as it is for the little 1-2 day losses we see around here, but have the ability to switch over to a small unit, probably PTO incase the power outage goes on for longer than that.

 

[Soundguy]

My bet is you won't save much fuel .. or enough to justify the cost of the new unit and sub panel.

Desiel engine fuel consumption will be mostly based on load from the generator.

IE.. a 90 hp diesel putting out 50 hp is going to drink not much more fuel than a 70 hp diesel also putitng out 50hp. This assumes same aspiration for both.. etc. Sure there are some very minor losses for the larger mass of the engine spinning.. but by and far.. electrical load is going to be the big factor in determining fuel usage.

5g of diesel mows my 13ac property... don't matter if that is with my 7610s NH and 15' batwing.. or my ford 5000 and 10' mower ( about 25 hp difference between the two.. still takes a yellow can to mow the property... 2hrs vs 3 hrs... )

soundguy

 

[TonkaToy]

Hey guys, thanks for the thoughts and feedback.

Mickey Fx I have a propane fireplace at this house. I love real fireplaces, the smell of burning wood in the house, but too many headaches at this point. For now, I値l do without, but maybe in the future I値l revisit this option.

Travelover I don稚 plan on heating my house electrically over the winter, just for power outages. As I mentioned above, I have a propane fireplace, which is ok for heating. I live in the burbs near Montreal. If we have a long power outage, the propane would cost me more than the diesel for my tractor, and would give me less heat than I probably get from heating through a 10 KW generator.

Iplayfarmer I couldn稚 agree with you more. Getting a bigass dedicated generator is a big expense, requires maintenance, and will be idle 99% of the time. The PTO genny makes so much sense because the tractor, being that it is like a Swiss Army utility knife around my place, is always being used and maintained, and would always be ready to go.

Dargo I have changed my stripes to. In my teens and twenties, camping in a tent was a blast. I am 50 now and my idea of roughing it, better have air conditioning

brandoro As I stated above to Travelover, I live about 30 minutes from Montreal.

To what Soundguy and other ask, what do I need during a power outage? I guess I could get by with nothing, many people do. And having a couple of things running is better than nothing. Fact is many people take electricity for granted, at least I do, until there is a power failure. Then it is a PIA. if your unlucky and it痴 out for more than a day, it痴 a major PIA. I went through the major outage the winter of 1999/2000 when we had the ice storm here in Quebec and the big steel girder electrical towers were collapsing from the ice accumulation. I was luckier than some with power out only 4 days, but some were out up to a month, with our winters, not a good situation.

I already have the tractor and want to see what my options are. It didn稚 occur to me till I read some of the responses that my BX has a 23HP engine, but at the PTO it is only 18HP (17.7 according to the Kubota site). From the response and a couple of searches, I guess a 10KW would be the biggest I could go with.

I know diesel engines are beefier and stronger engines than most gas engines, and as far as I know Kubota makes a decent engine. Any thoughts from people on having to run one of these full throttle for extended period of time? If the power was out for say a week, running at full throttle, and at fueling times maybe giving it a 30 to 60 minute break, doing the proper oil change and so on; you think it would hold up ok?

AS A FOOTNOTE to Travelover痴 comment about the propane heater. My propane fireplace is built in with the house and vented outside. Anyone ever think of using a propane or any combustible material type heater in your house during a power outage, think again. During that ice storm there were many reports of people being found unconscious or even dead, because they used these heaters inside their house and had all the windows and doors closed. They sucked all of the oxygen from the air and people passed out unconscious and if left long enough, died from asphyxiation.

 

[Soundguy]

Full throttle? I highly doubt your pto speed setting is at the max rpm of the engine.

In any case.. your machine should be able to put out full rated pto hp and rpm for extended time periods.

Back in 04/05 I ran my genny off my pto.. and it was less of a load than the mower.. so the tractor had it easy that hurricane season..

soundguy

 

[TonkaToy]

Well the Kubota specs show 17.7 HP @ 3200 rpm.

http://www.kubota.com/f/products/bx60/pdf/BX60_Comps.pdf

How could I find out if it is putting out max HP, or close to 17HP at a lower rpm? Or once I would have the PTO generator, it would determine the electrical output as I change the rpm on the throttle?

 

[Cacinok]

i took the minimalist approach when choosing what to power in my house. i have a 5500w genny and use it power the two fridges, freezer, and well pump, maybe an ac unit. i only run the genny for about 2 hours at a time and cool off the fridges and freezer and bring up any extra water we need (we already have a good bit of potable water stored). the water heater is propane, so we just need to run the well pump to get showers and baths.

if the power goes out in the winter, here usually b/c of ice storms, then we heat w/ the wood stove and close off the back half the house. we all sleep in the family room where the wood stove is. if the power goes out during the summer, then we sleep in the master bedroom which was an addition and has an independent hvac setup that the genny can run.

in the future, i may look into getting a larger genset powered by a listeroid diesel.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

...I already have the tractor and want to see what my options are. It didn稚 occur to me till I read some of the responses that my BX has a 23HP engine, but at the PTO it is only 18HP (17.7 according to the Kubota site). From the response and a couple of searches, I guess a 10KW would be the biggest I could go with.

You can actually get a bigger generator, but your output will still only be in line with the 17.7 PTO HP. Someone here on TBN actually posted a convincing argument in favor of oversizing your generator even if you don't have the power for it. I don't recall who it was, and my half hearted 3 minutes of searching didn't turn up anything. The reasoning was something to the effect of the larger capacity of the generator and the spinning bulk was better able to handle surge loads like starting motors, etc.

If you come accross a phenomenal deal on a generator larger than 10KW, don't pass it up just because your tractor is smaller.

 

[Soundguy]

Well the Kubota specs show 17.7 HP @ 3200 rpm.

http://www.kubota.com/f/products/bx60/pdf/BX60_Comps.pdf

How could I find out if it is putting out max HP, or close to 17HP at a lower rpm? Or once I would have the PTO generator, it would determine the electrical output as I change the rpm on the throttle?

You -MUST- run your tractor at or around 540 rpm for the pto gen to produce the correct frequency power.

And yes.. your tractors 'power band' should be at or near the pto rpm area.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

sure.. if you have a 10kw head and only can make 7kw.. you never have to worry about thermally taxing the genny head.. and the extra rotational mass helps out too.

same goes the other way.. if you only need 7kw, have a 10kw head.. and a machine capable of 20kw.. then you will not tax the head.. and high current loads like motor starts shouldn't touch the tractor rpm at all.. etc.

soundguy

You can actually get a bigger generator, but your output will still only be in line with the 17.7 PTO HP. Someone here on TBN actually posted a convincing argument in favor of oversizing your generator even if you don't have the power for it. I don't recall who it was, and my half hearted 3 minutes of searching didn't turn up anything. The reasoning was something to the effect of the larger capacity of the generator and the spinning bulk was better able to handle surge loads like starting motors, etc.

If you come accross a phenomenal deal on a generator larger than 10KW, don't pass it up just because your tractor is smaller.

 

[radioman]

Well the Kubota specs show 17.7 HP @ 3200 rpm.

http://www.kubota.com/f/products/bx60/pdf/BX60_Comps.pdf

How could I find out if it is putting out max HP, or close to 17HP at a lower rpm? Or once I would have the PTO generator, it would determine the electrical output as I change the rpm on the throttle?

soundguy- it may surprises you that the kubota compacts pto rated speed is nearly WOT!

Tonkatoy- if you looked at messicks pto gens, they have a video showing one of the 10kw gen hooked up to a BX and it has a readout for power. they also have Q&A Tiger Power PTO Generators .

 

[Travelover]

Travelover I don稚 plan on heating my house electrically over the winter, just for power outages. As I mentioned above, I have a propane fireplace, which is ok for heating. I live in the burbs near Montreal. If we have a long power outage, the propane would cost me more than the diesel for my tractor, and would give me less heat than I probably get from heating through a 10 KW generator.

I don't think your tractor has enough HP to run a generator that will heat your house electrically. This is pretty easy to calculate and you will want to know in advance - if that is your plan.

AS A FOOTNOTE to Travelover痴 comment about the propane heater. My propane fireplace is built in with the house and vented outside. Anyone ever think of using a propane or any combustible material type heater in your house during a power outage, think again. During that ice storm there were many reports of people being found unconscious or even dead, because they used these heaters inside their house and had all the windows and doors closed. They sucked all of the oxygen from the air and people passed out unconscious and if left long enough, died from asphyxiation.

I agree and all new gas heating appliances have an oxygen sensor controlled shutoff. If you have an older unit, you should get an oxygen/ CO sensor and also provide ventilation.

 

[Soundguy]

soundguy- it may surprises you that the kubota compacts pto rated speed is nearly WOT!

Tonkatoy- if you looked at messicks pto gens, they have a video showing one of the 10kw gen hooked up to a BX and it has a readout for power. they also have Q&A Tiger Power PTO Generators .

nearly and wot are still likely different.

nearly does not = same unless you are talking HE or horse shows..

sounfguy

 

[Lyrch75]

My bet is you won't save much fuel .. or enough to justify the cost of the new unit and sub panel.

Desiel engine fuel consumption will be mostly based on load from the generator.

IE.. a 90 hp diesel putting out 50 hp is going to drink not much more fuel than a 70 hp diesel also putitng out 50hp. This assumes same aspiration for both.. etc. Sure there are some very minor losses for the larger mass of the engine spinning.. but by and far.. electrical load is going to be the big factor in determining fuel usage.

5g of diesel mows my 13ac property... don't matter if that is with my 7610s NH and 15' batwing.. or my ford 5000 and 10' mower ( about 25 hp difference between the two.. still takes a yellow can to mow the property... 2hrs vs 3 hrs... )

soundguy

The second panel will be for freezer, well, furnace, and one socket. Not going to try and power anything beyond that if we lose power for a good amount of time.
PTO genset would be on my heavier unit that has a 1000 rpm as well. It is spinning about 540 a touch above idle. Have to finish working the numbers but it looks like it will work.

 

[Soundguy]

make sure there is enough hp available at the lower rpm 540.. it deffinately won't be in it's power band at half pto speed..

soundguy

 

[Lyrch75]

make sure there is enough hp available at the lower rpm 540.. it deffinately won't be in it's power band at half pto speed..

soundguy

According to the MB data book at 1100 engine RPM it is putting out about 19-23 hp, which looks to be ok but I am looking to see if I can find a comparable pto genset to try it out on before I drop any coin.

 

[brin]

According to the MB data book at 1100 engine RPM it is putting out about 19-23 hp, which looks to be ok but I am looking to see if I can find a comparable pto genset to try it out on before I drop any coin.

I don't know if this will help you but I have a NH - TC-29 Tractor...29 HP and I have a 20KW with 40 KW surge PTO generator...the electrician hooked it up to my house ..I have a plug at the back of the house and a transfer switch..I flip the switch and plug in the generator and it runs the whole house..that is heat pump, freezer, refrigerator...everything in a large house..so that might give you an idea of what yours can handle...

 

[Soundguy]

You can probably kick close to 15kw with that tractor.. so having a genset rated for 20 with a surge of 40 is excelent.. no chance to overload the genny at the amount of wattage you are capable of generating.

soundguy

 

[Raw Dodge]

To what Soundguy and other ask, what do I need during a power outage? I guess I could get by with nothing, many people do. And having a couple of things running is better than nothing. Fact is many people take electricity for granted, at least I do, until there is a power failure. Then it is a PIA. if your unlucky and it痴 out for more than a day, it痴 a major PIA. I went through the major outage the winter of 1999/2000 when we had the ice storm here in Quebec and the big steel girder electrical towers were collapsing from the ice accumulation. I was luckier than some with power out only 4 days, but some were out up to a month, with our winters, not a good situation.

I already have the tractor and want to see what my options are. It didn稚 occur to me till I read some of the responses that my BX has a 23HP engine, but at the PTO it is only 18HP (17.7 according to the Kubota site). From the response and a couple of searches, I guess a 10KW would be the biggest I could go with.

I know diesel engines are beefier and stronger engines than most gas engines, and as far as I know Kubota makes a decent engine. Any thoughts from people on having to run one of these full throttle for extended period of time? If the power was out for say a week, running at full throttle, and at fueling times maybe giving it a 30 to 60 minute break, doing the proper oil change and so on; you think it would hold up ok?
.

You wont have any problems running your Kubota at 540 PTO rpm for extended periods.I would just make sure the radiator screens are clean,and the obvious maintenace is done,always keep an extra set of fuel filters on hand for extended use,you never know when you'll get some bad fuel.So many ppl are afraid to run there tractors up at PTO RPM for some reason,that is actually the best rpm to run it at if you need to have access to a lot of power(as in a generator),that could hit the engine with a big load suddenly.If you need the tractor I wouldnt shut it off until the powers back on,I run 5w40 full synthetic in my diesels,I wouldnt change the oil or anything unless it had 250hrs + running just sitting there,its a steady load,inlet air is clean,just check it once a day,fuel and fire right back up.Change oil every 10 days at the most.
Dont worry about it "holding up" it will be fine.Kubota makes a great engine,use it without worry.Know the basics,no heavy loading the engine until its up to temp,then run it as hard as you need too.

 

[TonkaToy]

Lots of good information and feedback. So if I am understanding this correctly, my BX with 23 HP and 18 HP at the PTO, should run maybe 10 KW max. But, from comments by Iplayfarmer, Soundguy and brin, I can get a larger genset and it would work OK? That is to say if I get a 15 or 20 KW genset, I would never overload the genset, and as far as the tractor goes, if the genny was under heavy load and asking for more juice, my tractor would give it what it can, and possibly stall when it can稚 anymore? Does this make sense and is this a sound plan?

Raw Dodge, thanks for your comments. This is my first tractor and have had it about 5 months now. I did a lot of research before buying it have confidence in its capabilities. What you said kind of gives me the added confidence that this is a well built tractor and doesn稚 need to be babied, it was meant to work hard.

I am guessing that running a generator, and under heavy or close to max load, the fuel consumption must go up compared to my usual usage. Today痴 tractor diesel engines with their low sulphur requirements, would they run ok on home heating oil? I know many that did this years ago, but do not know if today痴 diesel are more finicky?

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Today痴 tractor diesel engines with their low sulphur requirements, would they run ok on home heating oil? I know many that did this years ago, but do not know if today痴 diesel are more finicky?

You just opened a whole new can of worms right there, friend. We'll be fishing for a while now.

Many will comment, and I think few will suggest running straight heating fuel. You may be able to run it if you ad some kind of fuel treatment. I probably wouldn't run heating fuel in my tractor, but that may be just a result of ignorance on my part.