Pulling a trailer with your tractor

[Redbug]

Why can't you put a chain from the 3 point arms to the drawbar to keep the arms from raising up if the trailer is tail heavy?

 

[KYDan]

I have a Kubota MX5100 HST 4WD and I use a trailer mover 3pt. hitch unit from TSC CountyLine 3 Point Trailer Mover - 2780703 | Tractor Supply Company to move and use my 4 ton EZ Dumper Trailer. I only load it lightly usually about 2 tons and insure that the load is balanced and the tractor is always in 4WD. I also use the tractor to move our boat which is 4 tons and I have not had any issues with it. Initially, I was worried about it on the hills, but in 4WD and moving only vertically on the hills I have not had any issues with it. I raise the lift fully prior to dumping the load in the trailer. This prevents it from lifting itself as the load shifts while being dumped.

 

[Redbuggy]

Please allow me to share my 'hope nobody saw that' experience with towing. Last summer I rented a towable 50' man-lift so I could get up and do work on my gutters. I was pretty sure towing this thing around the front of the house would not be an issue for my old BX2200 because its pretty flat out front, but I wasn't sure how well it would handle the slope/hill in my backyard. I figured if I needed to I would rent a bigger tractor:licking: to move it around the back. So I decided to tow it up and down the driveway with my BX2200 which has a steeper hill than what I would encounter in the backyard - handled it like a charm, forward, reverse, uphill, downhill - no problem. Got done out front of the house and started toward the backyard. Moving slow through a narrow side gate - all was well. Turned the tractor to avoid the first giant oak and start slowly down the slope - toward the second giant oak. All was still well .. UNTIL the wheels on the trailer crested the hill. I then had 4800' of trailer wanting to go downhill faster than what I had in mind.. please note the word 'turned' one sentence above because this is also key when you consider how easy it is for 4800lbs of trailer to dislodge the rear wheels of a BX2200 on grass.
Luckily I missed the tree, ended up jack-knifed etc. Very dangerous situation, don't over-tax it, consider all possibilities like the traction difference you will encounter. I ended up with a skid steer to help finish the job, after my neighboor helped me un-jack-knife it.

 

[5030]

I have pulled a trailer with a 3PH, but it was a four wheeled cotton or grain trailer with no tongue weight and only around the field. I would not recommend pulling any trailer with a 3PH and the only way I would do it now would be to move one a few feet out of my way; just so many things that can go wrong.

I have to deviate on this one....

I regularly pull (via the 3PH and a hay spear with a 2-7/16" ball welded on the top), my tandem axle gooseneck, hay wagons in tandem on the drawbar (double tandem axle Geihl's with flat racks refitted) and everything in between and most times (unless empty) they weigh appreciably more than either of my tractors.

It's a matter of economics. Why would I haul a gooseneck to the field with the pickup and then drive the tractor when I can pull the trailers behind the tractor, load the trailers with rounds and pull them back, in one operation.

Typically, growers all utilize tractors pulling semi trailers via a convertor dolly when harvesting tomatoes, pumpkins, cukes or any crop that has to be transported over the road, out of the field and in all cases, the load weighs many times what the power unit weighs.... gee, a tractor (as in on road truck) weighs much less than the trailer it pulls unless empty.

I even had the lighting pigtail (on the trailer and the tractor) so I can run my flashers or running lights at night if necessary.

As far as the weight on the 3ph from the loaded trailer, if the trailer is loaded properly (or overloaded excessively in my case), the weight bearing on the hitch is always less than the capability of the 3ph. Suffice to say that I would never consider hauling a loaded gooseneck with a SubCut. You have to exhibit some common sense and of course, common sense is a precious commodity today........:laughing:

I have pulled loaded hayracks with my quad in the past. 500 squares with a Honda Foreman 400 is all about calculated stopping but in a pinch, you do what's necessary.

Finally, there are a number of commercial attachments on the market for doing just what I do. I just built my own. I'm all about multi-adapting implements.

So yes, I do it, I've been doing it for years and will continue to do it, just like all farmers here do.

It's all about common sense.

 

[Dead Horse]

pulling the load is not the highest risk.......... controlling and stopping the momentum is. Yes a honda foreman can tow a trailer with a ton of wood on it........ on flat ground, at a safe speed. The brakes on said foreman are NOT designed to stop a 2,500# package quickly or on anything but flat ground.

Tractors are a LOT stronger than they are heavy........ and unless in FWD have zero front brakes, anyway.

 

[LD1]

I agree that I dont see the harm in pulling from the 3PH.

Everyone keeps talking like a 3PH is made of flimsy little peices of steel behind the tractor. Infact, my 3PH for a smaller tractor is...quite beefy:thumbsup:

There is no harm pulling from the 3PH, as long as you take a few considerations into mind...

As others have mentioned, gravity is the only thing that holds it down. So...this will rule out a dump trailer, or poorly distributed loads. As well as consider the 3PH raising when emergency stopping, on hilly terrain.

If none of those apply, no big deal to use the 3PH. If the issues above apply, you can either chain it down to prevent rise (which will rule out quick hooks/unhooks), or use the drawbar.

But if your tractor is anything like mine, or most that I have seen, the drawbar is set up WAY too low for most commercial trailers that are designed to be pulled with a truck.

That, PLUS the easy hook/unkook is why I like pulling with a 3PH hitch.

Your tractor is heavier and physically bigger than my L3400. But we regularly pull loads like this from where we cut wood at ~3miles away. No issues at all. And thats about 6k lbs too.

 

[Redbuggy]

pulling the load is not the highest risk.......... controlling and stopping the momentum is. Yes a honda foreman can tow a trailer with a ton of wood on it........ on flat ground, at a safe speed. The brakes on said foreman are NOT designed to stop a 2,500# package quickly or on anything but flat ground.

Tractors are a LOT stronger than they are heavy........ and unless in FWD have zero front brakes, anyway.

Dead Horse .. Yup! And I figured that to be the issue. What I didn't take into account was the fact that just 'cause it stopped and controlled well on blacktop didn't mean squat when I had it on the grass. I lucked out, I hope this might help some other weekend warrior to avoid the same mistake.

 

[TripleR]

I have to deviate on this one....

I regularly pull (via the 3PH and a hay spear with a 2-7/16" ball welded on the top), my tandem axle gooseneck, hay wagons in tandem on the drawbar (double tandem axle Geihl's with flat racks refitted) and everything in between and most times (unless empty) they weigh appreciably more than either of my tractors.

It's a matter of economics. Why would I haul a gooseneck to the field with the pickup and then drive the tractor when I can pull the trailers behind the tractor, load the trailers with rounds and pull them back, in one operation.

Typically, growers all utilize tractors pulling semi trailers via a convertor dolly when harvesting tomatoes, pumpkins, cukes or any crop that has to be transported over the road, out of the field and in all cases, the load weighs many times what the power unit weighs.... gee, a tractor (as in on road truck) weighs much less than the trailer it pulls unless empty.

I even had the lighting pigtail (on the trailer and the tractor) so I can run my flashers or running lights at night if necessary.

As far as the weight on the 3ph from the loaded trailer, if the trailer is loaded properly (or overloaded excessively in my case), the weight bearing on the hitch is always less than the capability of the 3ph. Suffice to say that I would never consider hauling a loaded gooseneck with a SubCut. You have to exhibit some common sense and of course, common sense is a precious commodity today........:laughing:

I have pulled loaded hayracks with my quad in the past. 500 squares with a Honda Foreman 400 is all about calculated stopping but in a pinch, you do what's necessary.

Finally, there are a number of commercial attachments on the market for doing just what I do. I just built my own. I'm all about multi-adapting implements.

So yes, I do it, I've been doing it for years and will continue to do it, just like all farmers here do.

It's all about common sense.

Well, I am glad it works for you, but I still would not/will not recommend it. There are just too many variables for me. Yes, I could set out a set of parameters in which it will work and it appears that you have found those that work for you. When giving advice, I try to stay away from such specifics as there is a diverse readership here from novice to expert and I have seen what often happens when people attempt to emulate the experts or those with more experience.

I have often admitted, I will turn a tractor over to one of my sons in many instances when I get close to my ability/expertise envelope. I also do things and have done things for years that I would never recommend to anyone else.

In my area, I don't remember the last time I saw a farmer pulling anything from a 3PH; most rarely use them for anything anymore as most of the equipment is pull type. We have yet to even use the 3PH for anything on our M8540.

 

[aczlan]

In my area, I don't remember the last time I saw a farmer pulling anything from a 3PH; most rarely use them for anything anymore as most of the equipment is pull type. We have yet to even use the 3PH for anything on our M8540.

In my area I have seen semi mount plows, mower conditioners and a land plane using the 3 point hitch (or at least the lower links). I also know a farm who has a screen that mounts to the 3 point hitch to protect the back window of the cab when they mow corn stubble with their 15' rotary mower.
Otherwise, I haven't really seen much use being made of the rear 3 point on larger ag tractors.

As for towing with it, I will use it to move stuff around and to tow the rollbar rake (that way I can lift it up at the end of the row), but for any "real" towing (such as the OP is describing with a dump trailer) I would not use it.


Aaron Z

 

[slowzuki]

If you have the tongue weight the hitch is fine. If its gonna lift use the hitch. The reason you don't chain the hitch down is the hitch is usually quite strong and if you accidently raise it you may bend your drawbar.

Neighbour lifted theirs while turning, one are caught the mower conditioner tongue, put a huge kink in the 1/4" steel before blowing the lift adjuster rod apart.

 

[Whitnel]

Man this thread has gotten a lot more responses that I thought it would. Looks like the group is about split in 1/2. Some will pull with the 3 point and some will not.

Thanks a bunch for the info. Some have described pulling loads that match what I have in mind.

 

[KennyV]

Look at where the axle is at on these scrappers, at the VERY back. I do not see how you could get negative tongue weight with this scrapper. Philip.

You are right... Never any negative tongue ... always a LOT of tongue weight... and when shaving a full width & loading it Pulls Very Heavy... the lower arms Are built for pulling & supporting heavy weight...

If your tractor can "Control" that weight after it is moving.... That's a different question... KennyV

 

[TripleR]

In my area I have seen semi mount plows, mower conditioners and a land plane using the 3 point hitch (or at least the lower links). I also know a farm who has a screen that mounts to the 3 point hitch to protect the back window of the cab when they mow corn stubble with their 15' rotary mower.
Otherwise, I haven't really seen much use being made of the rear 3 point on larger ag tractors.

As for towing with it, I will use it to move stuff around and to tow the rollbar rake (that way I can lift it up at the end of the row), but for any "real" towing (such as the OP is describing with a dump trailer) I would not use it.


Aaron Z

Growing up on a farm, we used much smaller tractors such as the 600-800 Fords with a John Deere or Case and Farmall; some didn't even have 3PH then. We pulled cotton trailers etc. with the horizontal draw bar on the 3PH, but backing up was a real bear as the hitch would tend to pop up. Even a trailer with pretty heavy tongue weight could pop up if you hit a rut, hole or got caught in a furrow.

When we bought a new 10' rotary cutter, we went with a pull type as opposed to semi mount as we back up some of our hills that are too steep to drive up and just couldn't see how that would work; maybe I am missing something or there is the very real possibility I don't know much about how to operate tractors or equipment.

In the end it seems most believe the way they do it is the best; maybe they're right. I gotta admit though that sometimes I ignore my advice and go for expediency, but we won't tell anybody about that.:laughing:

 

[LD1]

Man this thread has gotten a lot more responses that I thought it would. Looks like the group is about split in 1/2. Some will pull with the 3 point and some will not.

Thanks a bunch for the info. Some have described pulling loads that match what I have in mind.

And the 1/2 of us that arent afraid to use the 3PH are wanting you to be very aware of the limitations.

As I and others have stated, you NEED pleanty of tongue weight. So dont do it if you are using a dump trailer (which you never said either way). And DONT do it if you have to go down a steep hill and have to stop, or are trying to back up a steep hill. There is NOTHING holding the tongue down other than weight.

On flat ground, weight keeps it down. When you change angles and momentum (start/stop) it can raise up and screw the hitch up or come uncoupled.

 

[George2615]

I have pulled a 6000 lb camper trailer with 1200 lb. tongue weight on my 3 pt. when moving it around my yard. (My 3 pt. is rated for 2200 lb. lift) It weighs about twice my tractor but I only pull it on level ground never up or down a grade. I'd never be able to stop with that much weight behind me.

If I had to tow a heavy trailer up or down a grade I wouldn't want to tow anything that weighs more than my tractor unless I could hook up a trailer brake controller to my tractor.

 

[Localmotion]

I'm glad to hear that so many people are having no problems towing using their 3pt hitch....

But that does not change the facts (ask any serious ag machinery dealer):

1 - The 3pt hitch is designed for mounting implements. True some of these (such as scraper boxes, mowers or semi ploughs) maybe "trailed", but they are engineered to ensure sideways stress on the link arms and stabalisers are kept to a minimum. An attachment with a ball in the middle cannot allow for these stresses, as it depends upon what load you put on the trailer!

2 - As has already been mentioned - draw bars are where they are for a very good reason... low centre of gravity. This not only helps prevet tipping of tractor, but also increases traction as the transfer of weight is along the bottom of the tractor. Once you mount onto the 3pt linkage the centre of gravity is worse, even with the arms lowered. Also the distance of the trailer draw bar is usually further behind the tractor using 3pt linkage, potentially causing unstability when turning.

3 - Tongue weight - enough has already been said about it here, but please believe me that when something does go wrong and the trailer drawbar lifts it can be deadly...

I know this post will seem petty to those who use their 3pt to tow on a regualr basis, and please don't get me wrong - I also use it for shunting trailers around the yard. But if you are carting loads you should always use the drawbar (regardless of whether it is a conventional trailer, 4 wheel trailer or trailer & dolly).

If you want speed for hitching and unhitching fit a pick-up hitch (as are normally fitted on larger tractors)...

 

[Verticaltrx]

I regularly pull (via the 3PH and a hay spear with a 2-7/16" ball welded on the top), my tandem axle gooseneck, hay wagons in tandem on the drawbar (double tandem axle Geihl's with flat racks refitted) and everything in between and most times (unless empty) they weigh appreciably more than either of my tractors.

Just FYI, using one of those gooseneck hitches on the 3pt hitch is VERY hard on the top link/mount. We have one that we sometimes use on our tractors to pull a similar sized gooseneck trailer as well as a gooseneck cattle trailer, but only with light loads on relatively easy terrain. When you pull with one of those virtually 100% of the pulling force is transmitted through the top link, which it is definitely not designed for. Furthermore, the toplink mounts on the larger Kubotas are used for the draft sensing mechanism and therefore even less adapt to this kind of use.

I'm not one to tell others how to use their tractor, but just be aware of this as it is something that most people don't consider.

 

[LD1]

draw bars are where they are for a very good reason... low centre of gravity. This not only helps prevet tipping of tractor, but also increases traction as the transfer of weight is along the bottom of the tractor.

Actually, it is quite the opposite.

The low hitching point LESSENS traction as less weight is transferred to the rear tires.

A higher hitching point, like a 3PH raised up a little, INCREASE traction as ore weight is transferred.

Why do yo think they hitch so high at the truck/tractor pulls. And why do you think they impose height restrictions on drawbars for said pulls???

 

[Redneck in training]

You have to look closer at the geometry of the hitch for tractor pull. They hitch high so the front wheels will lift before the tractor loses traction. To prevent the tractor from flipping backwards they hitch behind the pivot (the point where the rear wheels meet the ground) the tractor tend to rotate. When the front wheels go up the hitch goes lower and thus shortening the arm that tries to rotate the tractor backwards. That way they create self-balancing system.
Pulling from the draw bar works similar way. If the tractor has tendency to lift the wheels the end of the draw bar goes closer to the ground. The lower it goes the smaller is the torque trying to rotate the tractor.
Pulling from the 3PH works the other way. If the 3PH lifts it increases tendency of the tractor to flip. Therefore pulling from the 3PH has certain dangers.
I do pull from the 3PH but my ball is mounted on my box blade which will pull the tongue of the trailer down and I don't try to pull anything too heavy. If I load the trailer then I hook it to the draw bar.

 

[hydro2]

I pull a dump trailer weighing over 10,000 lbs and pull a large wood trailer regularly with no problems off the three point. I also launch my boats and dock on a steep grade and have never experienced negative tougue weight. My hitch is also mounted on my box blade.