Pulling a trailer with your tractor

[Localmotion]

Because they have MUCH larger rear tires than fronts. SO unless we are taling about a machine with the SAME sized tires front and rear (large articulating ag, JCB backhoe, Skid Steer, to name a few) the same principals apply as a 2wd.

I'm sorry to be so blunt - but that arguement makes no sense at all. The traction offered by the front wheels will still exceed the extra traction on the back...

If you don't believe me, get two identical tractors and chain them together - one with the chain attached to the draw bar and one with it attached to the top link bracket.

Put them both in 4wd and pull - we did this many years ago at college, to challenge exactly what you say in your last statement. Your theory may well have sound phyics behind it, but tractor designers know what they are doing. The position of the draw bar is such that it is the optimum traction on a 4wd tractor...

 

[Redneck in training]

Tractors for pull contests are two wheel drive (at least those I saw).
The geometry of the hook up is critical for success. They place the point high and back. The height above the contact of the rear wheels with ground is the arm that makes the tractor lift front wheels and transfers all the weight on the rear tires. Since as the tractor rotates up the hook up point get lower thus shortening the arm that rotated the tractor upward. Therefore the tractors can operate in more or less stable manner with the front wheels up. As long as the traction is somewhat larger than the force trying to stop it the tractor will move. The tractor stops when they are equal. This approach works because the traction in given condition is known and more or less constant. If the traction would, unexpectedly, increase the tractor could flip backward or in opposite case would not lift the front wheels.

Based on above the key is "known traction". Since that is usually unknow in farm environment we shoudl hook up out equipment for the worst scenario and use common sense at the first place.
1.) Hook up low and behind the tractor in example to pull bar.
2.) If 3ph is used make sure that you have enough tongue weight to prevent the hitch rising.
3.) If parked outside in freezing condition make first move in reverse.

 

[LD1]

I'm sorry to be so blunt - but that arguement makes no sense at all.

Makes perfect sense when you think about it.

The traction offered by the front wheels will still exceed the extra traction on the back...

...

Impossible. 100lbs of weight over a MUCH larger pair of tires so going to have more traction than 100lbs over a smaller pair of tires.....Unless you are running turfs on the back and ags on the front.

If you don't believe me, get two identical tractors and chain them together - one with the chain attached to the draw bar and one with it attached to the top link bracket.

Put them both in 4wd and pull - we did this many years ago at college, to challenge exactly what you say in your last statement. Your theory may well have sound phyics behind it, but tractor designers know what they are doing. The position of the draw bar is such that it is the optimum traction on a 4wd tractor...

I call bull. (sorry to be so blunt)

It may have indeed resulted in a stale mate, I can believe that. BUT...It takes more than just a little more traction for one tractor to out-pull another. It takes a LOT. In other words, think about how much force it takes JUST to pull said tractor while in neutral. THAT is how much more it takes in traction.

IE, tractor takes 500lbs of force JUST to roll in neutral. IF THAT tractor is capable of pulling with 2000lb force, another tractor would NOT pull it if it was able to generate 2200lbs. It would need 2500+.

Similar example (allthough different), I have pulled a TON of logs with my tractor. And I can assure you that hooking to the 3PH and raising (transfering weight to the rear) will pull WAY more than hooking to the drawbar.


BUT, just to be clear I understand where you are comming from, Let me ask you this.....

Say we have a tractor. IT is 4000lbs with 1500lbs on the front axle and 2500 on the rear.

Example 1: straight Drawbar pull. under load we have 1500lb front and 2500lb rear.

Example 2: 3PH chained high. This not only ads weight in the form of lessinging it from whatever it is pulling, but also transfers weight off the front.
So lets say we are able to transfer 500lbs off the front, and add 800lbs from the downforce of the load. Now we have 1000lb/F-3800lb/R

Which is going to pull more???

And even if we negate the 800lbs that the load adds (which is impossibe, because if no weight is added, there can be no transfer from the front). But just hypothetically, 1000lb/F-3000lb/R

You think that wont outpull example 1 of 1500lb/2500lb on a 4wd? If you actually think that, you are nuts.

Lets Take it even farther. Lets put ALL the 4000lbs over ONE axle. :thumbsup: So....

Will 4000lbs over a pair of 7x16 tires outpull 4000lbs over a set of 11.2x24's????

 

[stan elliott]

ok ok ok

 

[VroomVroom]

I see this is an older post. But curiosity. I’ve been watching a lot of videos of them pulling loads in India. They seem to use a clevis bolted right to rear end of tractor and leave the lift arms dragging. Some of these loads look to be dump truck sized loads in trailers behind a 45 hp tractor. I’m amazed the cast rear can take such vertical loads. The drawbars that shove in straight under rear end swinging or not state fairly low vertical loads. Nothing like I see them pulling over there. How much vertical loads have people put on these? For example, I was looking at buying a Massey 165. 58 hp approx , 5500-6000lbs. I would think 2 cords would be an ok load for a tractor of that size. But if you position your single trailer axle so you get 10% load weight on the hitch, our light fir would still give you near 1000 lbs of vertical tongue weight. What loads have people put on their various hitch configurations?

 

[John_Mc]

2 cords of green hardwood could be as much as 12,000#, depending on the species.

That 10% on the hitch thing is really more for highway driving than towing a load through the woods. It has to do with avoiding oscillations. It's very speed related. In Europe, 5% on the hitch is generally the goal, but they also drive no more than 50 MPH when trailering. However, as a result of the slower speeds and lower tongue weight, the exact same model car in Europe often has a significantly higher tow rating than it does in the US.

I don't worry about 10% on the hitch when towing with my tractor, where the speed is less than 15 MPH. I just make sure I have some positive tongue weight.

 

[RayIN]

I use a 3pt receiver to move empty trailers all the time. The most weight I've moved was my dump trailer loaded with eight yards of mulch.

Yup, I used the 3 pt to tow stuff many times. like farm wagons loaded with 120 bales of hay, my utility trailer loaded with logs, etc. The bars that hold it level prevents it from raising. The 3pt hydraulics lever is all the way down. Like this stock picture shows:

This is used to prevent the drawbar from rotating: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/countyline-drawbar-lock-cat-1

 

[John_Mc]

Yup, I used the 3 pt to tow stuff many times. like farm wagons loaded with 120 bales of hay, my utility trailer loaded with logs, etc. The bars that hold it level prevents it from raising. The 3pt hydraulics lever is all the way down. Like this stock picture shows:

Did you make those bars that prevent the 3 Pt hitch from rising, or is that a commercially made product?

My log forwarding trailer is a pain in the butt to get connected to the tractor's fixed drawbar, which is how I normally use it. I've tried it using a 3 pt hitch three point hitch receiver similar to the photo below. The trailer has a pin hitch, so I just put in a receiver insert with no ball installed.


It works OK most of the time, if I load enough tongue weight on the trailer. However, "most of the time" isn't good enough. Occasionally, the 3 pt hitch will rise, which can cause some issues.

Similar problem when using my dump trailer, which has a 2" ball. the fixed draw bar is so low that it can cause problems when pulling the trailer over rough terrain. So I use the 3 pt hitch receiver all the time with that. I either need to figure out how to attach a ball hitch the the fixed drawbar, but have the ball raised a few inches, or use the 3 pt hitch with smething to prevent it from rising.

 

[Hay Dude]

I pull a trailer with my tractor.

Since this photo was taken, I’ve made an adapter to run my 10K trailer turn signals from the tractor, too.
I use an a 2&5/16” ball with an extended shank. Bought a 20K version in case I move up to a higher GVWR trailer.

 

[RayIN]

Did you make those bars that prevent the 3 Pt hitch from rising, or is that a commercially made product?

My log forwarding trailer is a pain in the butt to get connected to the tractor's fixed drawbar, which is how I normally use it. I've tried it using a 3 pt hitch three point hitch receiver similar to the photo below. The trailer has a pin hitch, so I just put in a receiver insert with no ball installed.
View attachment 4889071

It works OK most of the time, if I load enough tongue weight on the trailer. However, "most of the time" isn't good enough. Occasionally, the 3 pt hitch will rise, which can cause some issues.

Similar problem when using my dump trailer, which has a 2" ball. the fixed draw bar is so low that it can cause problems when pulling the trailer over rough terrain. So I use the 3 pt hitch receiver all the time with that. I either need to figure out how to attach a ball hitch the the fixed drawbar, but have the ball raised a few inches, or use the 3 pt hitch with smething to prevent it from rising.

Those support arms are sold at many farm stores and online. Note they are adjustable to set different drawbar heights. They were made for the old Ford and Ferguson tractors.
If you want to just back under the trailer and raise the drawbar, and drive away, all you need is the drawbar lock to keep it from rotating, problem is, this allows tail-heavy trailer weight to lift the hitch.
All are for CAT 1 use.

 

[jyoutz]

Those support arms are sold at many farm stores and online. Note they are adjustable to set different drawbar heights. They were made for the old Ford and Ferguson tractors.
If you want to just back under the trailer and raise the drawbar, and drive away, all you need is the drawbar lock to keep it from rotating, problem is, this allows tail-heavy trailer weight to lift the hitch.
All are for CAT 1 use.

Almost all modern tractors have a drawbar fixed below the axle. That’s far safer to tow from than a 3ph that’s above the axle.

 

[RayIN]

Almost all modern tractors have a drawbar fixed below the axle. That’s far safer to tow from than a 3ph that’s above the axle.

The drawbar is below the axle with a 3-pt hitch. The adjustable links are made that way for a purpose. Those old tractors did have an under-belly drawbar option.