Putting in a gravel driveway

[future_vision]

I am planning a gravel driveway for a new build and have a few questions since I've never had a gravel driveway before. I have started on some preliminary work which I think is necessary. so far I've scraped all the organic materials from the entire driveway. In some places I am as much as 12 inches below grade on one side. The driveway itself is roughly at the top of a slope. Here are my questions going forward. Note that I am in New England. Soil tends to be sandy or sandy loam as you get below the pure organics.

1. I am assuming that the finished driveway needs to be above grade and crowned so water rolls off either side. Is that correct?
2. Because there is a small slope is there something I need to do on the high side for water management?
3. There is an area of the driveway that 5-7 ft lower than the rest of the driveway. I want to bring this up to level. I was going to add some boards attached to some rebar on both sides and fill in lifts compacting in between. What is the best material to fill with?
4. I've seen gravel driveways done a number of ways. I am debating about either going with various sizes of rock and then gravel to build the foundation for the driveway or using 6" geocell. Geocell is not particularly cheap but seems like it would give the driveway a more stable foundation. Which way is the best to go?

Using a Kioti DK6010 SE to get this done.

 

[future_vision]

Surprised there is no feedback. Better place to ask something like this?

 

[old and tired]

Might have been an off day...

Also, seen a few driveway question in the recent days...

So. #1 yes, correct
#2 it depends, you should watch and wait to see just how much it does erodes. If any. Water will find away around it if it's a problem.
#3 I used "T" post and after 30 years, still hanging strong. Make sure you give the water another way to drain, do not let it drain over this edge.
#4 No idea about the Geo-what-ever... big rocks for the base while building. Dress it with crush-er Run after the house is done...

 

[dodge man]

I just saw your post now, I’ll throw some ideas out.

In your item number 3 you sound like you’re going to put “forms” in to hold the dirt in the low area. I’d skip that. Just start wider than the driveway and gradually narrow up as you get higher, that way you will have nice slopes on the side. Having the area contained won’t really help with compaction and will just want to blow out as you get higher.

If you have places water will run across the driveway that will probably be ok as long as there isn’t a lot of water and it just sheet flows across. If that’ll be to much water or cause erosion you will need to put a culvert across the driveway and put some shallow ditches in to drain the water to the culvert on the high side.

Geocell or a fabric to stabilize things? I’m a retired land surveyor and worked for a civil engineering firm for years. We often specified things to stabilize soils. For a driveway I’m not sure it’s worth it unless you have bad spots. They would be areas that would want to rut and sink even after you build your driveway.

For small areas we would have them dig out the bad area and have them but oversized rock in. This is about the size of a golf ball or a little bigger. You could just build your driveway starting with larger rock than top it with regular gravel. We always did a proof roll with a loaded dump truck to look for soft areas. If your tractor is heavy enough you might discover bad areas just driving around on it.

Yes if you can crown the driveway that’s good.

 

[paulsharvey]

"I am planning a gravel driveway for a new build and have a few questions since I've never had a gravel driveway before. I have started on some preliminary work which I think is necessary.
so far I've scraped all the organic materials from the entire driveway. In some places I am as much as 12 inches below grade on one side. The driveway itself is roughly at the top of a slope. Here are my questions going forward. Note that I am in New England. Soil tends to be sandy or sandy loam as you get below the pure organics."

I am assuming that the finished driveway needs to be above grade and crowned so water rolls off either side. Is that correct?

Pretty much, yeah, but it can be crowned or sloped for sheet flow; but I would want it approx 2" above the surrounding grade.

Because there is a small slope is there something I need to do on the high side for water management?

You can have the whole drive slope towards the lower side, between 2%-6% and allow sheet flow

There is an area of the driveway that 5-7 ft lower than the rest of the driveway. I want to bring this up to level. I was going to add some boards attached to some rebar on both sides and fill in lifts compacting in between. What is the best material to fill with?

Good clean fill material, sloped at no greater than a 1:3 slope, 1:4 is better. Is this lower area a creek or other area were we need a pipe? If we build our embankment up, were does the water go


I've seen gravel driveways done a number of ways. I am debating about either going with various sizes of rock and then gravel to build the foundation for the driveway or using 6" geocell. Geocell is not particularly cheap but seems like it would give the driveway a more stable foundation. Which way is the best to go?

Need more details; length, budget, how far is the trucking to get roadbase? Geocells and geogrid is typically used to overcome/bridge unsuitable materials, 6" of decent roadbase (not Washed gravel), over compacted subgrade should work just fine


Using a Kioti DK6010 SE to get this done.

What impliments are available, and have you considered renting a roller, something like a 2 ton-5 ton vibratory roller

Some things not mentioned;
Trees; keep them min 4ft from drive, prefer 8 ft;
Culverts; if needed, sized long enough to be well clear of driving surface, and large enough for major rain events; 15" is a good diameter general, but creeks would need bigger; make sure they atleast a min of 4 ft beyond your driving surface (20 ft min for a 12 from driving surface)
Width, radius, turns; 12 ft wide is a good number, with an absolute min clear span of 16ft obstacle to obstacles;
Water; any springs, creeks, seeps, that need dealt with?
Road connection, do it per permit if you have one; if not; 25 ft radius and maybe 16 ft wide throat up by the road; think of pulling a trailer, at night, in the rain, and pulling in; if a culvert is needed at the road, again, per permit, or 32 ft long; you Donr want to end up with the passenger side of a trailer in the ditch

 

[paulsharvey]

Paul, try again!!!!

I kind editted it a bit to try to make it clearer, and thought about copying and pasting the "driveway pricing" thread

 

[paulsharvey]

I highly recommend some stakes, string, and marking paint, and lay this thing out. Consider FedEx, sewer truck, ambulance/fire truck, material delivery, propane, ect.

 

[paulsharvey]

There are a Lot of options
A: dirt; cheap to free; can be fine for many people/conditions/soil types; sometimes a dirt or sand drive can seem fine, until a heavy vehicke breaks though; can always be improved later; on a slope, erosion can get Very bad fast; its entirely depended on your local soils/slopes/drainage; DIY friendly with tractor/skid steer; or nothing ar all

B: wood chips on dirt; cheap to free; works well many times But it will need removed if improved; can attract termites; can float in heavy water; can wash; Need to have a free source, like a power ROW clearing contractor; not easy to grade;

C: improv stabalized; carpet/conveyer belts/ect; can actually work very well; look ghetto as heck, really need to be removed if you make improvements

D: sand-clay/ball field clay; cheap (if locally available); doesn't wash too bad; can be added to with more clay/rock/ect; can actually be paved over; gets slimy in rain; stains vehicles/clothes/tracks into house; if you get it delivered, you can easily spread/grade with tractor/skid steer/mini hoe

E: gravel/roadbase; can get pricey with trucking, but if close locally, it's pretty cheap; properly installed will last a long time, can be added too/redressed/regraded/paved over; some roadbase (limerock) will wash pretty bad; washed graded gravel doesn't really bond into a homogenous base; even if you add a few loads of rock every 5 years, it's still probably far cheaper than asphalt or concrete; if delivered can easily be spread/shaped with tractor/skid steer/whatever

F: crushed concrete; very good material; can be priced near roadbase depending on trucking; very dusty; water doesn't hurt it, unless it's high volume/high velocity; can be added too/paved over; often has some wire, and can lead to flat tires; easily spread and shaped intialy; can be hard to regrade later

G: RAP/millings; getting very expensive, ($900/load locally, and that's off the roadway); pretty much only available near a milling job or an asphalt plant; water doesn't really affect it much; less dusty than crushed concrete; can be paved over; don't believe it's a magical material; it doesn't turn back to asphalt in the summer

H: chip seal over one of the base materials; cheaper than asphalt; protects the base from water; eliminates dust; pretty good traction; it's very thin, and won't last as long as asphalt; don't see. to be many contractors still doing it; requires a tack truck or atlwast a tack wagon, and a rock spreader, and traffic roller; Not DIY friendly; can be paved over in the future; can be re chip sealed.

I: asphalt; cheaper than concrete /pavers; dust free, not affect by rain/minor run off water; you do need to patch and crack seal as needed; can be milled or overlayed; fairly easy to cut or demo if needed; not DIY friendly, however, you really can Pave a small area with a dump trailer, box blade, and a plate tamp; in 90% of cases asphalt will be laid on top of another base material; but full depth asphalt, using asphalt as a base is also done in areas where time or water are critical issues; that gets extremely expensive when you start talking about 6-9" of asphalt.

J: concrete; if done correctly, with good subgrade it should outlast you, but is very expensive; poorly done concrete costs just as much, but will be a mess as quick as anything else; unaffected by petroleum/most chemicals; unaffected by water; cutting/demo very expensive; can Not be overlayed; can be very good looking; needs cure time after pour. Pretty DIY friendly, and can be done in sections/phases; many contractors; concrete plants deliver on ready mix trucks; can be pumped in some pretty bad terrian; can be groved to improve traction on slopes;

Few odd ball options;
Soil cement; has to be the right native soils (sandy, low organics); can be paved over; water doesn't break this base down; if soils are right, you are only importing the Portland cement to mix in; can't really be regraded after it cures; can reflect cracks though asphalt
Geostabalized grids; pretty costly, has to be paired with an aggregate base; can help bridge bad subgrade, but eventually the subgrade will rear its ugly head; don't know if it needs removed or top coated with additional base to Pave over?
Pavers; probably the most expensive, and to do properly for long life, they need to be on a good base; often grow mold/slime; will settle individually; can often remove a few broken ones to repair or remove and replace to trench under the drive; can also be mortared in[/QUOTE

 

[paulsharvey]

So the naming conventions get weird; we don't use gravel, crushed stone, or crusher run here; we use limerock roadbase. It is a soft rock that is mined either by blasting, drag line, or plain track hoe, and is very soft for the most part, and runs from powder upto fist sized. There are also granular base materials, almost never used, and the normal #57/83/ect washed rock, clean 'gravel' that is a hard rock that is cracked, and fines washed off, for use in concrete, or as a non-compacting pipe backfill or other specific applications. Although not really available around here, you also have smooth, river rock type gravel, that frankly is suitable for landscaping. Being all marbles, and no fractured sides, not suitable for a roadbase, driveway, or use it concrete.

Crushed concrete is a great material at times; but we don't just use it from every crusher, has to be pre-approved, for the specific reason; 10.of us all stand here and say "crushed concrete", I garrantee we each are talking about a different material; one guy is thinking large construction entrance rock, no fines, no small rock, basically soft ball to base ball; guy 2 is thinking of the stuff that comes out as powder to maybe BB sized, works fantastic for a brick paver base material; I'm here thinking of powder to maybe 1.5" mix if material, that works good under asphalt. As often as not, I think guys mean #57 stone when they say crushed concrete, as all 57 stone around here is basically from recrushed, graded, and washed recycled concrete.

The ideal base material for a standard base is going to be approx equal parts of many grades (sizes), starting from dust, on up, to somewhere around 1, 1.5, inches, upto maybe the size of your fist. Do to it's nature, this type of material requires moisture to compact and achieve max density. Too much water can often lead to pumping while trying to comoact, the base moving up-down-side, and then it needs a chance to dry. This kinda material dumped into a wet hole, or if it gets a heavy down pour of rain before being compacted can be a real mess, but once in place/compacted, resists rutting.

If you are dealing with wet areas, a washed stone/gravel is a good material, as it can be dumped and spread, it will be unaffected by the water, it is essentially compacted by default as soon as it's dumped in, and can be topped with a proper base material. Another (non approved, but works) approach to a wet area, is roadbase, compacted till pumping, and then scarify, add a couple bags of Portland cement, regrade and compact and get the Frick off it, and let the Portland do it's thing.[/QUOTE

 

[IXLR8]

This may be a bit over the top for your needs, but I found this helpful.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2015-10/documents/2003_07_24_nps_gravelroads_sec1_1.pdf

 

[paulsharvey]

Based on your profile, if accurate, and 7 acres, I'm guess driveway is almost 500 ft?

To go 6" thick with roadbase/limerock/crusher run/1.5" minus, whatever it's called in your area; you'll need approx 111 cubic yards; or around maybe 180 tons. That's about 10 loads of material.

I would have everything "boxed out", and start dumping first truck at road, balance that, have 2nd truck back up as far as possible, spread/balance that, and once everything is more or less spread, i would work to finish the final shape of the driving surface.

"gravel" drives do require additional rock every 4 or 5 years, but it very well might just be a load or two. Don't focus on a one and done attitude, and over spend.

 

[paulsharvey]

On the ditch/swale topic, ideally you would want a minor swale on each side, with a invert a couple inches below the bottom of your rock/base/gravel. You wouldn't need one if the elevations naturally slope away from the road, say, dropping 8" within 8 ft of the road, unless the topography creates ponding in specific areas. You certainly don't want your drive to be the low point, and channel water down it.

If money is tight, you can absolutely get by with a 10 ft driving surface (or even 9 ft), but I would still keep the 16 ft clear area, and have any swales, drop offs, ect keep back off the edge. It will save maybe 20-30% on material, but it's much nicer to have one 12 ft wide, for any deliveries.

Once you have the roadbase/gravel/rock inplace, graded, and compacted, make sure to seed/hay the shoulders to prevent erosion.

 

[future_vision]

I just saw your post now, I’ll throw some ideas out.

In your item number 3 you sound like you’re going to put “forms” in to hold the dirt in the low area. I’d skip that. Just start wider than the driveway and gradually narrow up as you get higher, that way you will have nice slopes on the side. Having the area contained won’t really help with compaction and will just want to blow out as you get higher.

If you have places water will run across the driveway that will probably be ok as long as there isn’t a lot of water and it just sheet flows across. If that’ll be to much water or cause erosion you will need to put a culvert across the driveway and put some shallow ditches in to drain the water to the culvert on the high side.

Geocell or a fabric to stabilize things? I’m a retired land surveyor and worked for a civil engineering firm for years. We often specified things to stabilize soils. For a driveway I’m not sure it’s worth it unless you have bad spots. They would be areas that would want to rut and sink even after you build your driveway.

For small areas we would have them dig out the bad area and have them but oversized rock in. This is about the size of a golf ball or a little bigger. You could just build your driveway starting with larger rock than top it with regular gravel. We always did a proof roll with a loaded dump truck to look for soft areas. If your tractor is heavy enough you might discover bad areas just driving around on it.

Yes if you can crown the driveway that’s good.

For #3 that is essentially what I was thinking. The forms would be set up and I would back fill on the outside. Once I get driveway materials in and compacted I might attempt to remove the forms or maybe just leave them.

As for the geocell it was an idea. Part of it is stability and durability. The other part is that you can use a variety of fill. We'd probably go with some type of relatively cheap standard gravel. I forget off the top of my head what that is called.

 

[Rockbadchild]

I am planning a gravel driveway for a new build and have a few questions since I've never had a gravel driveway before. I have started on some preliminary work which I think is necessary. so far I've scraped all the organic materials from the entire driveway. In some places I am as much as 12 inches below grade on one side. The driveway itself is roughly at the top of a slope. Here are my questions going forward. Note that I am in New England. Soil tends to be sandy or sandy loam as you get below the pure organics.

1. I am assuming that the finished driveway needs to be above grade and crowned so water rolls off either side. Is that correct?
2. Because there is a small slope is there something I need to do on the high side for water management?
3. There is an area of the driveway that 5-7 ft lower than the rest of the driveway. I want to bring this up to level. I was going to add some boards attached to some rebar on both sides and fill in lifts compacting in between. What is the best material to fill with?
4. I've seen gravel driveways done a number of ways. I am debating about either going with various sizes of rock and then gravel to build the foundation for the driveway or using 6" geocell. Geocell is not particularly cheap but seems like it would give the driveway a more stable foundation. Which way is the best to go?

Using a Kioti DK6010 SE to get this done.

good preliminary work

1) yes
2) yes ditching or culvert for the water to leave the area and avoid washouts
3) I don't know why you would want to have it level you will spend lost of money to achieve this, why not leaving a dip? yes you still built up the road 1m (3ft) or so but unless you have to for what ever reason then ok but I wouldn't is there a way for water lo leave that low point? ... For fill, used what is the cheapest, ether rocks or what we call pit run (unprocessed sand) that what we used in my region it is cheep and offer lots of drainage and compactions then 4'' minimum of 3/4 inch minus on top for road base... I wouldn't do a retaining wall either they are troubble .
4) for geocell that would be used only on each side of the road and filled with gravel and compacted the center not the entire width of the road and between each geocell it would be filled with sand, this a a effective method to raise a road vertically and minimize its footprint.


FYI folks see below for what is geocell, they are made to stop erosion and built up roads while minimizing foot prints, effective as retaining walls.

 

[future_vision]

Based on your profile, if accurate, and 7 acres, I'm guess driveway is almost 500 ft?

To go 6" thick with roadbase/limerock/crusher run/1.5" minus, whatever it's called in your area; you'll need approx 111 cubic yards; or around maybe 180 tons. That's about 10 loads of material.

I would have everything "boxed out", and start dumping first truck at road, balance that, have 2nd truck back up as far as possible, spread/balance that, and once everything is more or less spread, i would work to finish the final shape of the driving surface.

"gravel" drives do require additional rock every 4 or 5 years, but it very well might just be a load or two. Don't focus on a one and done attitude, and over spend.

Not a bad guess. My math has it at closer to 600' of driveway at 12' wide. Entrance into the property is closer to 20' wide. Then we have a 55x38 "pad" in front of the garage that would also be the same material as the driveway although I have considered going with concrete. Not sure if that will cost more but probably since I can't do it myself.

 

[future_vision]

good preliminary work

1) yes
2) yes ditching or culvert for the water to leave the area and avoid washouts
3) I don't know why you would want to have it level you will spend lost of money to achieve this, why not leaving a dip? yes you still built up the road 1m (3ft) or so but unless you have to for what ever reason then ok but I wouldn't is there a way for water lo leave that low point? ... For fill, used what is the cheapest, ether rocks or what we call pit run (unprocessed sand) that what we used in my region it is cheep and offer lots of drainage and compactions then 4'' minimum of 3/4 inch minus on top for road base... I wouldn't do a retaining wall either they are troubble .
4) for geocell that would be used only on each side of the road and filled with gravel and compacted the center not the entire width of the road and between each geocell it would be filled with sand, this a a effective method to raise a road vertically and minimize its footprint.


FYI folks see below for what is geocell, they are made to stop erosion and built up roads while minimizing foot prints, effective as retaining walls.

View attachment 940295

Thanks for the feedback. The driveway doesn't have to be perfectly level but that dip is pretty significant so it would need to be filled some. IU was leaning towards level especially for large trucks that are bringing building supplies. At some point we might have a large horse trailer and I feel like a large dip, spanning maybe 15', would not be good for that.

For the retaining wall it is not really a retaining wall. I am putting fill to the outside of the forms I was going to put up for support. The land slopes toward the back of the property so runoff is good.

As for the geocell. I haven't seen used on just the outsides of the drive. That would certainly save some $$. For a 12' driveway wou are thinking 4' of geocell on each side and leave the middle 12' open?

As for the geocell fill why sand and not gravel?

 

[Blue Mule]

I had to install about 600 feet of gravel "driveway" to access my house and detached garage. The terrain is very rolling and variable. The two most important things I did that have helped maintain my driveway for 8 years now are: 1) I installed geotextile fabric, the really thick heavy duty kind, on the entire length before adding any crushed stone and 2) I dug storm water run-off ditches on the sides of the driveway where it ended up below grade to keep water from rushing across it.

 

[future_vision]

I had to install about 600 feet of gravel "driveway" to access my house and detached garage. The terrain is very rolling and variable. The two most important things I did that have helped maintain my driveway for 8 years now are: 1) I installed geotextile fabric, the really thick heavy duty kind, on the entire length before adding any crushed stone and 2) I dug storm water run-off ditches on the sides of the driveway where it ended up below grade to keep water from rushing across it.

I thought about runoff drains but I was thinking along the lines of perforated pipe along the edges that empty into the ditch in the front or send it to an underground shallow well for irrigation.

What materials did you use on top of the fabric for your driveway?

 

[Blue Mule]

I thought about runoff drains but I was thinking along the lines of perforated pipe along the edges that empty into the ditch in the front or send it to an underground shallow well for irrigation.

What materials did you use on top of the fabric for your driveway?

Here in KY we have "#2 stone" that's larger than golf balls and I started with a layer of that. Then drove on it for a few weeks to work it in. Then covered with "#57 stone" that's quarter to half dollar sized crushed stone and let that get worked in. Then topped it off with "dense grade" which is everything from powder to small gravel. It all fit together like a cake and formed a solid road to drive on.

Most of the time it holds up well. The only time I have trouble is when we get thunderstorms that drop 2 inches of rain in one afternoon.

 

[Quaffer]

Yes if you can crown the driveway that’s good.

Depending on how wide the driveway is a constant slope to one side might be easier to maintain than a crown in the middle.