Question on JCB swing cylinders

   / Question on JCB swing cylinders
  • Thread Starter
#11  
My fear is if I were to drop the bottom plate, both cylinders would come crashing down with it.

That would be the easy part. The hard part would be to then lift both cylinders (at what I surmise to be the same time), get them lined up while then setting the plate.

If perhaps the cylinders would be 'held' from above, then I'm worrying about nothing. I just don't think that's going to happen from what I've seen (or not seen).

I'd have to fabricate some kind of lift (I do have a hydraulic jack for an auto) balance the plate & two cylinders on the plate while lifting and keeping my fingers clear.

I have a small voice in the back of my head that is telling me I'm still missing something about how they come apart.
 
   / Question on JCB swing cylinders #12  
The end of the gland must be threaded so the rod and the plunger can slip right out. Clean it up and you should see a seem 1/4" from the end of the gland. Figuring out the first few I did had me confused as well. Then if you can't pull the rod with the end on it out by hand use the hydraulics to push it out ( to not take it off and then have to use air to push the rod out to dangerous I know from experience.) I have one to do in the next couple day myself on a stabilizer.
 
   / Question on JCB swing cylinders
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Been looking around....

Would I need a "Gland nut wrench" to remove the end cap?

Amazon.com: gland nut wrench

I see 'pins' on these which make me think these would be similar (on a smaller scale of course) of what you would use to unscrew the back of a watch case that has the notches in the outer rim.

I don't see these as being a 'wrench' per se' where they will grab the nut and hold it.

Right? Or is this exactly what I need? (I've not yet cleaned the nuts up to see if there is perhaps a hole for the pins to go into)
 
   / Question on JCB swing cylinders #15  
"I would expect to unscrew the end cap (pardon that I don't know all the correct terms for their respective parts)."

I tried to clarify some terms in the marked up pic.

"Once the end cap is unscrewed, I would anticipate seeing something like the picture above. Some more of the cylinder rod with the "piston" at the end and several gaskets on the piston."

Correct - except those gaskets would be called "rings" or "seals"

"I would imagine, the gaskets get wrestled off somehow, new ones installed and the whole assembly gets reinserted back into the cylinder, screw the end cap in and "done", easy peasy."

Correct, except for the "easy peasy" part - usually not so much, due to heat/cold cycles, time, being put back together previously without anti-seize lube on threads, etc...

"I don't understand the comment above about pulling a 4" piston through a 2" hole?"

This was probably due to Billrog/my misunderstanding of terms - What I meant was that, unless you take that gland (AKA "end cap") out, you cannot just take out the rod because the piston is (hopefully) still attached to the rod, and the hole thru the gland is only the diameter of the ROD, not the PISTON.

"I would think the whole ensemble would come out with the end cap dangling during the process."

Correct.

"I wouldn't need to actually remove the piston from the rod would I ??"

Sorry - I am ***-u-me ing you found the leak because it's EXTERNAL (dripping) rather than INTERNAL (can't see it but cylinder is weak operating, bleeding past the piston seals) - if so, then the main seals you need to replace are the ones INSIDE THE GLAND - and the ONLY way that can be done is to completely remove the rod from the gland once you've removed the "whole ensemble" as above - hyd_cyl_split_piston.JPG

And that requires removal of the piston from the rod, since the welded end of the rod won't go thru the gland and the OTHER end can't either, unless the piston is removed.
Item# 5 is the front wiper seal, #6 is main seal, and there is sometimes another rear seal (not shown in diagram) - ALL these must go INSIDE the gland, which can't happen unless the rod is out of the gland. These are the items that will cause an EXTERNAL leak if bad -

Also, in some cylinders (older Case, for example) the piston is split (see items 12,13,15) - regardless, since it's likely your GLAND seals are bad, the piston has to come off the rod in order to get the rod out of the gland.

From an optimist's point of view, you might NOT have to remove the cylinder BODIES - I didn't when I did the swing on my Case - I centered the boom, pulled the pins that hold the rod ends to the swing tower, unscrewed the glands, broke hydraulic connections so pistons could move, hooked a comealong into the rod eye and pulled the entire rod/gland/piston out of the cylinder tubes.

Next - big vise, big table, smooth metal "shoes" over vise jaws, grab ONLY the flattened sides of the rod end, 1-1/2" impact socket/big air impact gun, remove nut retaining the piston, slide the gland off the rod, match up new parts in kit to what was removed, reverse the procedure to re-assemble.

NEVER touch the rod with anything metal - any part of the rod that isn't perfectly smooth will cause you to start OVER with new seals :confused:

Also - the Case cyl's use an internal rod seal (item#6) that's usually a BEAR to get in and out - it goes into a deep groove inside the gland. Getting the old one out will usually take a couple of "hook picks", something like this

Pick and Hook Set 7 Pc

Getting them out isn't usually as hard as getting the new one back in - my method for that is (1) dunk the seal in nearly boiling water for maybe 10 seconds to soften it - (2) as soon as it's not painful to touch the seal, grasp it on one side with thumb/finger, then use SMOOTH-JAWED (no sharp edges or serrations) pliers and grasp the OTHER side of the "donut", and TWIST the seal (in the same plane, this will cause the part between your fingers to become smaller diameter, with a small "inside out" half-circle where the pliers are) - then, holding the seal in this "omega" shape, insert the part held in your fingers into the big groove in the gland, twisting the pliers back and forth til MOST of the seal is where it belongs - finally, smooth out the seal with a finger so ALL of it is in the groove.

Re-assembly - wet a finger with hydraulic fluid and pre-lube the seal and wiper before attempting to insert the rod back into the gland.

I may have forgotten a step or two, feel free to ask about anything that isn't clear... Steve
 
   / Question on JCB swing cylinders #16  
I have that spanner "wrench", haven't used it yet (built my own, different size for each size cylinder)

As near as I can tell, you WON'T find little holes in yours - that's what the BIG A** hex nut is for.

IMO, your next step should involve a 3000 psi pressure washer so you can better see what you have... Steve
 
   / Question on JCB swing cylinders
  • Thread Starter
#17  
I'm all over the pressure washer. Have one at father in laws house next door so right now, I'm trying to research the other items that will take longer to organize.

For example.... I found this monster wrench

36" Adjustable Wrench | OTC Tools

Something like 36" long, 31 pounds and....$826 (ouch) Although I presume that is list price and am presuming if I go that route, it could be had for less.....but......still.......ouch!
 
   / Question on JCB swing cylinders #18  
Unless I just wanted one of those for "bragging rights", or intended to go into watch repair :laughing: I'd see if anyone close has a CNC plasma table they're trying to pay for - I would think a simple "open end wrench" with maybe a foot of 2" wide, all cut from 1/2 to 3/4" steel, then a cheater pipe over that "short handle" - shouldn't cost more than $100, maybe less.

You may get lucky - I wouldn't get too excited shopping for tools (OK, I lied :rolleyes:) until it's CLEAN enough to see more.

Also - watch for little set screws around the periphery of the gland, thru the sides of the cylinder body - Case used these in most cylinders, keeps 'em from backing out. Also messes up threads in the gland if you don't take 'em out first... Steve
 
   / Question on JCB swing cylinders
  • Thread Starter
#19  
I just had a "omg, I could have had a V8" moment....

You are correct in that the cylinder is leaking on the outside. It's a slow leak but it's there none the less.

I was thinking "remove everything, slap some new seals on the piston and put some new seals on the screw in cap"

I was thinking the seals would be on the outer/threaded portion.... enter my V8 moment....

It's the INNER hole that is leaking, not the threaded portion. It is because of the inner thread leaking that the whole package needs to come apart so the inner seal can be replaced.

duh....

By the way, I do appreciate all the help.

This has me wondering if perhaps I might contact my hydraulic shop, see if they would simply take care of the guts if I can pull them out of the machine.

I really, really, really don't want to fight the cylinders out. If I can pull their innards, drop them off to be fixed and slide them back in..... that would be nice.
 
   / Question on JCB swing cylinders #20  
Probably the less painful way to go - if you do, re-read my previous comments along that line - also, if your father-in-law doesn't have a floor jack you can borrow, I would suggest NOT using a bottle jack - not enough support to avoid the whole (heavy) sub-assembly from tilting off the jack.

The way that JCB is made, it doesn't appear that you can take things out "piece-meal" - and that lower plate plus TWO fat cylinders ain't gonna be "pinky finger" work :eek:

A smooth surface and a floor jack (a transmission jack would be even better) should keep all your "digits" attached... Steve
 

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