Question on JCB swing cylinders

   / Question on JCB swing cylinders #31  
Oh, and if you're gonna do very much work on that hoe, one of the best things you can do for yourself is get one of these

Air Impact Hammer Kit

And, if necessary, a compressor to run it - I took the LEAST useful chisel with mine, used a thin cutoff disk on a side grinder, and cut the end off square - (or you can buy mushroom head bits too) - almost all the pins on my hoe are 1.5 to 2 inch diameter - I take off the snap ring, hold that air chisel up to the end of the pin and pull the trigger til it falls out. (watch for zerks in the end tho, might need to work around that.)

They're also great for rattling some of the rust out of big bolts, etc, so they'll turn again... Steve
 
   / Question on JCB swing cylinders
  • Thread Starter
#32  
Yep, got one of those when I bought my (first) compressor. I'm on my second compressor now and bought an oiled verses oil-less.

Aside from that.... I found a service manual. Big help. I think this answers most of the questions regarding the trunnions! (had I only seen this earlier)
 

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   / Question on JCB swing cylinders
  • Thread Starter
#33  
I found this. Looks like you take it to the mark with the engine cold.

Interesting thing for me is, my dipstick isn't a traditional dipstick.... it's more like a coiled spring (think of a sink snake) Hard to describe. I have never ever seen a mark on the stick to get a reference point.
 

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   / Question on JCB swing cylinders #34  
Looks like your piston threads onto the rod and is held from coming off by a snap ring - has a spring plunger "shock absorber for end of travel. Also, it appears your gland is two piece, should make it easier to get those inner seals in place.

Didja find any directions yet about dropping those cylinders? I'm curious what your JCB guy was talking about "dropping the whole thing" - still looks to me like the upper trunnion plate is part of a REALLY heavy piece, that comment still makes no sense to me.

Sooo, now does my suggestion about balancing the cylinders before you set them into their sockets on the lower plate make more sense? Although if those trunnions really are that deep, it might not matter as much -

I was hoping you already had a compressor, good deal - I have one of the airless ones for portability, my genny will run it anywhere - but it's too loud to use if you don't have to, about 5 years ago I replaced my 2 horse 20 gallon with an industrial 5 horse (real horsepower) 80 gallon 175 psi unit - wife and I agree that if EITHER one of us AND the compressor dies on the same day, there's no question which one'll get planted and which one'll get replaced :D

Dunno what to tell you on the dipstick, never saw a roto-rooter version. Have fun with the manual, it's usually good to be fore-warned... Steve
 
   / Question on JCB swing cylinders #35  
He gave a last tip about (what I think he called a key) under the first or second gasket on the piston. I think this key or pin is to keep the end nut locked (but am unsure until I see it)
Yes, I told you about this "allen key" in post #25, but if your sending out the cylinders for rebuild, you won't need to worry about it, but inform "the shop" about it if its not a JCB shop, just in case.
A one foot piece of plywood on top of your jack should help to lower that plate for balance.
 
   / Question on JCB swing cylinders
  • Thread Starter
#36  
Just had a light-bulb go off:

What if I detach the hoses. Leave the ram ends pinned to the hoe. Maybe set a vertical support on the opposite end of the ram. Remove the bottom plate, leaving the cylinders 'hanging' in mid air with their main attachment point being the attachment to the hoe itself (with again, maybe another support on the opposite side.

This will allow the plate to be removed without everything crashing down on my head.

Pull one cylinder out at a time.

When reinstalling, take one cylinder at a time, pin it to the backhoe (leaving the body of it 'hanging' in the air again)

Main issue with this is how to then align the cylinders forward/backward so they'll align with the bottom plate at the same time.

This might be the easiest way to deal with this (other than the alignment at the end of the process)

One reason I'm cautious about dropping these at once is health. About 15 months ago, I weighed 185 pounds. About six months ago, I weighed 128 pounds. Today, I'm back to 150 but still don't have all my strength back. (gotta love doctors when they see you as a walking dead and bring you back to life!! Go Vanderbilt Medical Center!)

I'm thinking that I'm most comfortable with this idea.

I kind of hate that this thread has carried on and on......but at the same time, I greatly appreciate the different input and thoughts.
 
   / Question on JCB swing cylinders #37  
Richard, if it gets you going without anything going wrong, then everybody wins - no problem :thumbsup:

Skyhook, good call on the piece of plywood - most jacks these days have such wimpy little platforms - I have an old Walker 1-1/2 ton that's spoiled me for most of the newer stuff - platform is just over 7" square, I used to balance VW engines on it while R&R them, never dropped one :thumbsup:

I bet I've looked at that exploded view at least 20 times, never did see any little un-numbered blobs anywhere - sure would have been nice if that allen screw were documented anywhere but the grapevine :rolleyes:

Richard, sorry to hear about your health problems - guess I'm blessed, I'll be 70 this month and so far the only major hiccup has been major rotator cuff repair/complete biceps re-attachment (plus 3 little pins for anchor points - took me out of most of the fun activites for a year, but now it's good as new :thumbsup:

The problem(s) I foresee with your new removal plan -

(1)it doesn't look like you would have enough "slop" in the rod end pins to allow the cylinder body to drop down far enough to clear the upper trunnion joints - plus, unless you can drop both ends evenly, something would likely bind up -

(2) On mine, the boom needs to be centered in order to allow both rod ends to swing away from the boom far enough to clear -

(3) usually those pins are hard enough to get out WITHOUT having a bind on them -

(4) I had my full strengh when I did mine, and it was still really hard to move rods in and out without hoses hooked back up and pump running.

You did get me thinking about options though - you might be able to get away with your method if there is something directly above the REAR of each cylinder -
(0) - Boom centered, bucket on the ground
1 - ratchet strap around rear of each cylinder individually, holding that end UP, hoses off.
2 - Drop the lower plate (only)
3 - Floor jack centered under one trunnion - this may work better if you take a piece of scrap wood as thick as the depth of the trunnion, hole saw the center to slip fit the trunnion, trim the board to "snuggle" down into the jack platform - this should improve control while removing
4 - Support the cylinder on its lower trunnion, with jack and "snuggle board" -
5 - NOW, remove the pin from the rod end, swing rod end clear of swing tower and drop that cylinder straight down (gently)
6 - Repeat for the other side.

Re-installing - Ask your rebuilder to COLLAPSE both cylinders so the rod ends don't stick out enough to interfere with the swing tower - looks like there may not be enough room to "splay" the cylinder bodies enough to clear the swing tower on both sides - then...

1 - using your "snuggle jack", raise each cylinder up into its upper trunnion socket and leave maybe 1/8" of play or less (not too tight to swing the cylinder)

2 - Again, support the rear of the cylinder with a ratchet strap so the lower trunnion is clear, and lower the jack

3 - Repeat for the other side

4 - Now, with just some minor wiggling, you should be able to jack up the lower plate and get it lined up with both lower trunnions and the 4 studs - run all four nuts up snug for now.

5 - hook up all hoses - remember there will be AIR in the system, so be VERY sure you don't get any body parts near any "pinch points" - from hear on, unless you're "super-McGuyver", you'll probably need a helper -

6 - Now that you have both cylinders trapped you can remove the ratchet straps - run a short length of rope thru one of the rod end eyes (better to get that ROPE in the wrong place than your fingers)

7 - Pull sideways on the rope just enough so the rod end clears the tower, and "feather" the swing control back and forth til you get the eye lined up with the pin hole. You may need to go back and forth several times til most of the air gets out of the system - both cylinders will try to move, one in and the other out. Watch for any interference with the one you're NOT trying to pin. That other one will probably NOT have enough space to splay wide enough to just STAY out of your way. Once you get some extension on the cylinder, you can move the rope to the shaft so it's out of the way of the pin hole. This will continue to keep your fingers out of the way.

You will also need to rotate the rod end with a lever (through the pin hole) til it will slide into the pin slot on the swing tower.

8 - The second cylinder should cooperate more than the first, since you won't need to worry much about the other side once it's pinned.

If you haven't already, finish tightening the nuts holding the lower plate. At this time I'd put 4 MORE nuts on to protect those threads.

Once again, be VERY careful where you put your body parts during this, especially when the pump is running - I had two of my millwrights injured in the last few years from NOT paying close enough attention during similar operations. I've been doing this kind of stuff in heavy industry for the last 35 years and running a full maintenance crew for the last 10, seen more crap than I ever wanted to...

Hope that helps you work out a method - gotta quit for now, for some reason Firefox seems to be hogging memory and it took me over an HOUR to get this much written - :thumbdown: ...Steve
 
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   / Question on JCB swing cylinders #38  
heres a pic of mine (#5), yours "may" not have one but usually JCB's have them.

2v9ox90.jpg
 
   / Question on JCB swing cylinders
  • Thread Starter
#39  
I'm not going to doubt it and, thanks for the picture....I'll print it and take it to the shop.

that said, I started getting things organized yesterday. Tried to break some crud off with the pressure sprayer.... tough going! I think I'm going to remove the cylinders and then spray them again.

I did find what I believe to be the source of my drip....


Preparations: Cut field yesterday. Did initial pressure wash of back end of machine (went over a lot of the machine)

Got three of the four bolts loosened that hold the plate under the cylinder. Last nut is TOUGH!

Hoses off....draining some of the fluid into a container.

Straps holding the 'hose' end of cylinders up so when the plate is removed, the back side will be supported along with the ram being supported in the hoe.

Floor jack is out there & waiting. Getting ready to eat breakfast and then get dirty. :)
 

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   / Question on JCB swing cylinders #40  
Richard, best of luck - that last nut is doing what I expected ALL of them to do - being at the bottom of the hoe I'm surprised ALL the threads aren't damaged, that's why I suggested the extra nuts to keep those last few threads from damage.

Skyhook, thanks for the diagram of your cylinder - two quite different designs, yours uses that allen in the groove at the inner end of the rod to keep the piston from backing off - looks like Richard's uses a snap ring of some sort. As you said, since it's going to a rebuilder it doesn't matter... Steve
 

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