Question?

   / Question? #41  
I don't think you ruffled any feathers, everyone here is a grown man just trying to help we all know that you are your own man too and must choose what you think is best. If you need a second machine go dedicated, my 140 will cut more than 2 skid steer machines.
 
   / Question? #42  
cbturf said:
Check out the wikipedia link it spells out all of the physics on the deal. It can be confusing but it really does work.

Calculations
Calculation of the required max. power output for the diesel engine, rough estimation:

(1) Check the max. powerpoint, i.e. the point where pressure times flow reach the max. value.

(2) Ediesel = (PmaxキQtot)?#951;.

Qtot = calculate with the theoretical pump flow for the consumers not including leakages at max. power point.

Pmax = actual pump pressure at max. power point.

Note: η is the total efficiency = (output mechanical power input mechanical power). For rough estimations, η = 0.75. Add 10-20% (depends on the application) to this power value.

(3) Calculate the required pumpdisplacement from required max. sum of flow for the consumers in worst case and the dieselengine rpm in this point. The max. flow can differ from the flow used for calculation of the diesel engine power. Pump volumetric efficiency average, piston pumps: ηvol= 0.93.

Pumpdisplacement Vpump= Qtot ndiesel 0.93.

(4) Calculation of prel. cooler capacity: Heat dissipation from hydraulic oil tanks, valves, pipes and hydraulic components is less than a few percent in standard mobile equipment and the cooler capacity must include some margins. Minimum cooler capacity, Ecooler = 0.25Ediesel

At least 25% of the input power must be dissipated by the cooler when peak power is utilized for long periods. In normal case however, the peak power is used for only short periods, thus the actual cooler capacity required might be considerably less. The oil volume in the hydraulic tank is also acting as a heat accumulator when peak power is used. The system efficiency is very much dependent on the type of hydraulic work tool equipment, the hydraulic pumps and motors used and power input to the hydraulics may vary a lot. Each circuit must be evaluated and the load cycle estimated. New or modified systems must always be tested in practical work, covering all possible load cycles. An easy way of measuring the actual average powerloss in the system is to equip the machine with a test cooler and measure the oiltemperature at cooler inlet, oiltemperature at cooler outlet and the oilflow through the cooler, when the machine is in normal operating mode. From these figures the test cooler powerdissipation can be calculated and this is equal to the powerloss when temperatures are stabilized. From this test the actual required cooler can be calculated to reach specified oiltemperature in the oiltank. One problem can be to assemble the measuring equipment inline, especially the oilflow meter.

In the simplest terms if you apply force T to a lower RPM horsepower goes up.

Thanks cbturf. Now my head hurts and I see the angle you're coming from with you wanting to be a mech engineer in the past. I still don't see a machine out there putting out more hyd. hp than the engine hp, especially with the loss of oil flow to the lift, tilt, and boom cylinders as they move up and down. I do appreciate your dissertation on hydraulic theory and how a pump could out produce an engines net hp if it was set up that way.
 
   / Question? #43  
cbturf said:
J,
I know it seems like we are trying to poke holes in the machine you are looking at but I assure you there are a LOT of good guys on this site. Where else will you find a bunch of guys with whom you are potential competition so willing to help you out. I am very confident that every piece of advice you have gotten here is everyones honest attempt to steer you in the right direction and I hope you take it all into consideration. That being said Burlingtons web siteleaves out a critical part of the HHP equation. All hydraulic systems have some loss. The 89 HHP they advertise has no factor for efficiency loss. I would seriously look into other machines and if this one seems best then make your purchase. One thing that I like is how the cimaf heads that Robbie is peddling around here, is they tune your head to your flow and pressure. If you are producing more flow and pressure you will need larger displacement motors in your head or you will generate more heat further taxing your coolers, on the other hand if your motors displacement is to high you will not achieve full rotor speed and you will loose efficiency there too.

Now you guys now a little bit of how my brain works...I went to school to become a mechanical engineer. As if there is not enough to look at it deciding wich machine to buy without trying to make sure all of the engineering is done to your spec. I might go get me an 8-5 and stop eating dust and bathing in hydraulic oil every day, nope I'll keep mulching I would be chewing on a gun barrel by noon the first day if I were stuck in a cubical somewhere.

Well said. I'm just interested in equipment and as a former salesman want to see someone make an informed decision that is best for them. Good luck.
 
   / Question? #44  
jasimpson said:
On ASV web site the total gallons for hydraulic fluid is 20 gallons. The Case had a total of 17 gallons with a 6.5 gallon reserve. I am not seeing a reserve on the ASV website please correct me if I am wrong. Please let me know if I am wrong on any information. Thanks Again.

The resevoir is 20 gallons and the system has about 26-28 gallons total.
 
   / Question? #45  
DD,

I am a mechanical engineer!!! I went to the University of TN before and after my time in the Army. I am a geezerly 37 years old and could not work with a roof over my head so I bought a Hydroseeder two years ago and a mulcher a year ago and here I am. By the way the dissertation was a cut and paste job...after all of my time in the brush both in the Army and in my mulcher I have lost a lot of the physics stuff. I still know what I am looking at, but computers do all of the hard math these days.
 
   / Question? #46  
Well..the decision is made and good luck with it. I do hope it works for you.

You did ask our opinion but you had you mind made up before the first response. What do we know...we only have thousands of hours of seat time in mulchers, I'm sure the factory reps knows more.

Any problems you have won't be in the first few months so enjoy it while you can...
 
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   / Question? #48  
QwikDraw said:
Any problems you have won't be in the first few months so enjoy it while you can...

This is very true. They all cut great when new!

As for Case, I almost got one the other day. A nice enough machine for sure.The waranty was 3yr/3Khrs as well. Let us know how it goes. I instead went with a Cat 272c XPS 2 Speed with Loegring OTT & AMICS .only $51K total 0% interest 36mo with hourly cost at less than $1 vs $11-15hr. Could not be more impressed.

As for heads if quality of cut matters sell or return the magnum. If you are only knocking down brush it is good. Could have saved over 7K with the RotoAxe . Saved almost 900# of weight and wear and tear on the front end. Increased floatation/ reduced ground pressure. Saved almost more than 75% on routine maintenance. Could have increased production by at least 25%. Reduced heat build up. And a few more benefits that I have left off. Homework pays off. Machine will be ok Head will be costly. Do not lowball prices and charge accordingly. This is tough high maintenance work.
 

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