R1 versus R4

[Builder]

So, I guess your point is not logically consistent... or else construction site people just cant figure out, or dont care, what they need to deal with slippery conditions better.

No, no, no...... It's your assertion that construction sites rarely require max traction.

 

[deere755]

Tire choice is different for everyone based on what they will be doing with the tractor. Mowing my yard I get along great with turf tires. I wouldn't want to do dirt work with them. R 1's work great for the field type work I do but they sure tear up my yard I wouldn't want to mow with them. I feel that the R4's are a happy medium for all types of work. Decide what you are going to be doing mostly with your tractor and get the tire that is best suited for your needs. What works for me may not be what is best for you. I have turf tires for lawn mowing and R1's for all the other work I do.

 

[AndyMA]

My Kubota with R4's slips sideways a=on slopes that are damp and clogs up with wet soil easily... it's lawn friendly.
NH with R1's does not slip - slide - or hardly even spin when plowing or pulling. Leaves small mars in the lawn.
If you are doing things with you lawn - don't get R1's - other wise - don't get R4's.

Totally agree with this. I think many people get R4's because of appearance. R1's go. R4's look good. None of my tractors have R4's but I have used plenty that have. I can sure tell the difference and it's not positive in terms of performance.

Andy

 

[milkman]

bp fick wrote "Kubota certainly does offer R1 (Ags), R3(Turfs) and R4 (Ind) on all those models you mentioned."

bp fick,
Out of the 16 Kubota dealerships in Missouri, I spoke with seven of them asking to buy R1's (Ag's) for the BX2660 and BX25. All seven of them said Kubota doesn't offer ag tires for these tractors (but they do for the BX1860...weird). "DP" comes up in their database meaning "depleted item." They said that means Kubota no longer carries that item. They also said that that doesn't mean a dealership in Alaska or timbucktoo may still have some in their inventories. This may have been the situation with your dealer ole friend. I think we were both correct in our statements and I wish a dealer here in Missouri had a set in stock because I would have made the drive to pick them up.

Man oh man is Moss Road & builder making this thread intense or what ???

MissouriThunder

My brother just bought a BX220 that has turf tires, Yesterday he ordered a set of bar tires and wheel through whole goods at the local dealer. The price quoted was $360 for the set, We'll know in a few days if Kubota sells the non industrial tires for the BX. He was told they can no longer get the 18X8.50X8 as they are replaced by the 18X8.5X10, same overall diameter as the former.

 

[missourithunder]

Good morning milkman long time no hear. As far as Ag's and Bar's go, my local dealer said there is a distinct difference between ag tires and bar tires. He said many people assume they are the same tire but they are not. He didn't have a bar tire on hand to show me but he made it clear that ags and bars are different. I'm just saying what he told me.

MissouriThunder

 

[Johndeere3720]

I may only be 14 but I've had hundreds of hours on tractors with all three types of tires. It really depends on the type of job you want to use the tractor for. I know for a fact that R4s work well in mud otherwise most construction machinery would have R1s. I have used R3s but they are mainly a road/grass/garden tire. Ive used them to try and clear some land at my moms place and they filled with the clay dirt quickly. I have considered putting R4s on my yanmar but since the wheels alone cost $500 I'll stick with the R1's. Im lucky enough that the grass at home is on hard clay dirt, so I could take a skidsteer out, spin around, and you could barely notice it was there. For my aplication, I want the R4's for a wider stance since we live on a hill. I like R1s and R4s the same and both are very usefull. Im thinking that most dont like R4s since there tractor is not heavy enogh to get traction but thats just my opinion. I basically want to say that thety both have pros and cons and it really depends on your use. Both tires can otmach each other especially if they have ballest.

 

[tugboat-2]

Now there is a young "man" who even at 14 years of age, seems to have enough experience on the topic to quite sensibly put into words what makes good sense.

Now hold on there boys! Many of you may feel a giggle coming on because this lad is just 14. Read some of his posts and see what you think then.

I'm not laughing at him because he's only 14,..because when I was 14, I already had nearly 6 years of tractor experience so I feel I understand his feelings.

I have R-4s on a JD3520 and I have done many things like digging a lake, working in wet clay and mud, some logging and cut my lawns and plowed a lot of snow. Certainly I've been stuck, but only once had to get a tow, but I don't have a complaint with them.

I do admit it is a "personal" thing as to what you do with those tires and how they work for "YOU" !!!

CHEERS!,
. . tug

 

[Builder]

I may only be 14 but I've had hundreds of hours on tractors with all three types of tires. It really depends on the type of job you want to use the tractor for. I know for a fact that R4s work well in mud otherwise most construction machinery would have R1s. I have used R3s but they are mainly a road/grass/garden tire. Ive used them to try and clear some land at my moms place and they filled with the clay dirt quickly. I have considered putting R4s on my yanmar but since the wheels alone cost $500 I'll stick with the R1's. Im lucky enough that the grass at home is on hard clay dirt, so I could take a skidsteer out, spin around, and you could barely notice it was there. For my aplication, I want the R4's for a wider stance since we live on a hill. I like R1s and R4s the same and both are very usefull. Im thinking that most dont like R4s since there tractor is not heavy enogh to get traction but thats just my opinion. I basically want to say that thety both have pros and cons and it really depends on your use. Both tires can otmach each other especially if they have ballest.

Son, you nailed it!!!

Let's face it, most tractors owned on TBN are too small & light to get decent traction. My small tractor weighs 6,500+ and my larger tractor weighs 19,000, so traction isn't the issue that a little BX or similar tractor would have with R-4's.

I'd like to have a 3rd tractor with R-1's, but that will have to wait till the farm biz grows and the economy rebounds.

 

[Dmace]

Totally agree with this. I think many people get R4's because of appearance. R1's go. R4's look good.

This is just plain wrong.

It's really sad when someone has put down everyone else's choices because they don't match their own.

I did not get R4's because they "look good", when I ordered my tractor brand new my dealer said which tires do you want, R1 (Ag) R4 (Industrial) or R3 (Turf), either choice was the same price. I wanted good traction for snowblowing and excavating my back yard which is wet and muddy but also wanted something that wouldn't tear up my lawn and rode smooth on pavement.

The R1's have good traction but they tear up grass and ride rough on pave and I tried a similar tractor with R1's at the dealer to confirm this before deciding. The R3's were smooth on pave and easy on grass but did not have good traction in mud and snow. The R4 Industrial tires were a perfect medium and I am very happy with them. I have gone through mud deep enough to drag the undercarriage through and snow blow up hill in reverse through snow heavy and deep and have NEVER been stuck. I would buy these tires again in a heartbeat. All four tires are loaded so that helps with traction too.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Son, you nailed it!!!

Let's face it, most tractors owned on TBN are too small & light to get decent traction. My small tractor weighs 6,500+ and my larger tractor weighs 19,000, so traction isn't the issue that a little BX or similar tractor would have with R-4's.

I'd like to have a 3rd tractor with R-1's, but that will have to wait till the farm biz grows and the economy rebounds.

No, it is not nailed by oversimplifying. Sure a heavier tractor has more traction, but not in greater proportion to its weight than does a lighter one. Absent true penetration and interlock with the surface, traction force is just the coefficient of friction times the weight. A small benefit also comes from more rubber in contact, but this is miniscule unless an advantage is taken with the higher contact tire by using a softer rubber. The R4, with hi tread area, is not set up to apply intense areas of down pressure to force into and interlock with the surface. This interlock gives the R1 the advantage on all consolidated surfaces that are not ultrahard. On softer consolidated surfaces the advantage swings further in favor of the R1 because of the directional tread. The shape of the tread causes rearward force to try to move dirt rearward and outward from the tire centerline. This effectively uses a larger area than the tire footprint for tractive force since outward flow of dirt is resisted by the dirt to each side of the tire. So the initial advantage of better interlock with the dirt is augmented as the tire creeps, and maintained and as the R1 tire begins to slip. At this point the R4 traction is dying and the R1 is maintaining... self cleaning, taking new bites and jamming them back and outward. --- Now, backing up R1s have no advantage. And on unconsolidated surface like sand and gravel the smooth hi area tread of the R4 will usually do a little better.
larry

 

[Builder]

This is just plain wrong.

It's really sad when someone has put down everyone else's choices because they don't match their own.

I did not get R4's because they "look good", when I ordered my tractor brand new my dealer said which tires do you want, R1 (Ag) R4 (Industrial) or R3 (Turf), either choice was the same price. I wanted good traction for snowblowing and excavating my back yard which is wet and muddy but also wanted something that wouldn't tear up my lawn and rode smooth on pavement.

The R1's have good traction but they tear up grass and ride rough on pave and I tried a similar tractor with R1's at the dealer to confirm this before deciding. The R3's were smooth on pave and easy on grass but did not have good traction in mud and snow. The R4 Industrial tires were a perfect medium and I am very happy with them. I have gone through mud deep enough to drag the undercarriage through and snow blow up hill in reverse through snow heavy and deep and have NEVER been stuck. I would buy these tires again in a heartbeat. All four tires are loaded so that helps with traction too.

Ain't that the truth. Sure we all have brand preferences, but to put another's tire choice down to the point that their only virtue is they "look good" is just silly.

Like I'm going to buy a tire for a machine I will be using to provide for my family because "it looks good". There ya go.

 

[harpoonalt]

I had almost forgot about this thread, but there are 2 dogs tugging on an old towel out front and that reminded me to check back in. Asking about tires is like the Kubota vs JD. Buy what I have, 'cause it's the best. Get whatever makes sense to you and adjust as you go. Or be smart and buy 3 tractors with 3 sets of tires and not have to worry..................Hey, one dog just got the towel........kinda looking stupid sitting there with that old towel now, but he's happy!

 

[Builder]

No, it is not nailed by oversimplifying. Sure a heavier tractor has more traction, but not in greater proportion to its weight than does a lighter one. Absent true penetration and interlock with the surface, traction force is just the coefficient of friction times the weight. A small benefit also comes from more rubber in contact, but this is miniscule unless an advantage is taken with the higher contact tire by using a softer rubber. The R4, with hi tread area, is not set up to apply intense areas of down pressure to force into and interlock with the surface. This interlock gives the R1 the advantage on all consolidated surfaces that are not ultrahard. On softer consolidated surfaces the advantage swings further in favor of the R1 because of the directional tread. The shape of the tread causes rearward force to try to move dirt rearward and outward from the tire centerline. This effectively uses a larger area than the tire footprint for tractive force since outward flow of dirt is resisted by the dirt to each side of the tire. So the initial advantage of better interlock with the dirt is augmented as the tire creeps, and maintained and as the R1 tire begins to slip. At this point the R4 traction is dying and the R1 is maintaining... self cleaning, taking new bites and jamming them back and outward. --- Now, backing up R1s have no advantage. And on unconsolidated surface like sand and gravel the smooth hi area tread of the R4 will usually do a little better.
larry

You can try to throw all the coefficients & diagonals you want at me. I'm no scientist like you, I just use 2 machines, a dumptruck a pickup and a couple trailers to make a living. You still have me laughing about the "Construction sites rarely require max traction" comment. It did bring a little levity to the jobsite this morning.....

R-4's get the job done very well in situations from hard pavement to mud on top of frost. R-1's are impractical on construction equipment because they're too narrow and too succeptible to damage on tougher construction site conditions.

If I were farming, I'd have R-1's, R-4's don't have enough bar height to paddle through deep soft dirt.

If I were maintaining large expanses of lawn I'd be on Turfs. R-1's & R-4's would damage the lawn surfaces.

Tire choice is different for everyone based on what they will be doing with the tractor. Mowing my yard I get along great with turf tires. I wouldn't want to do dirt work with them. R 1's work great for the field type work I do but they sure tear up my yard I wouldn't want to mow with them. I feel that the R4's are a happy medium for all types of work. Decide what you are going to be doing mostly with your tractor and get the tire that is best suited for your needs. What works for me may not be what is best for you. I have turf tires for lawn mowing and R1's for all the other work I do.

well said. The R-1 guys that think all other tire choices are bad or are "just for looks" need to understand this. No tire is "better" than the other, they were designed for different tasks.

 

[MossRoad]

I know for a fact that R4s work well in mud otherwise most construction machinery would have R1s.

Maybe you should re-think that.

You could have just as easily said "I know for a fact that R1s work well in mud other wise most farm machinery would have R4s. "

The reason most construction machinery has R4s is because they can carry more weight and are less likely to get torn up from debris than R1s, not because they have better traction than R1s... they don't. R1s give superior traction to R4s.

 

[MossRoad]

... R-4's don't have enough bar height to paddle through deep soft dirt.

Must be poor operator skills!

Hey, that's what you told me when I said R4s wouldn't work on our machine in our soils. Hmmmm.... working both sides of the debate now?

 

[Builder]

Maybe you should re-think that.

The reason most construction machinery has R4s is because they can carry more weight and are less likely to get torn up from debris than R1s, not because they have better traction than R1s... they don't. R1s give superior traction to R4s.

And I have mentioned that in previous posts like RIGHT HERE:

"R-1's are impractical on construction equipment because they're too narrow and too succeptible to damage on tougher construction site conditions. "

Maybe you forgot to read that.

 

[Builder]

Must be poor operator skills!

Hey, that's what you told me when I said R4s wouldn't work on our machine in our soils. Hmmmm.... working both sides of the debate now?

I'm not working both sides of anything.

That comment had nothing to do with operator skills, just not enough rubber to form a paddle to get though soft dirt. It's pretty common knowledge that R-1's are what 90% of farmers use for the exact reason I said- more rubber paddle to move through soft dirt.

 

[MossRoad]

I'm not working both sides of anything.

That comment had nothing to do with operator skills, just not enough rubber to form a paddle to get though soft dirt.

Your position on this issue is losing traction, so to speak.

 

[MossRoad]

And I have mentioned that in previous posts like RIGHT HERE:


Maybe you forgot to read that.

I wasn't talking to you, but nice of you to reply anyway.

 

[Builder]

I wasn't talking to you, but nice of you to reply anyway.

I'm addressing an observation you are making. Makes no difference who you quoted.