R4 to R1 swap $$$

[ElDorado]

First off this is NOT a R4-R1 thread!!! That's a beat horse!! Now having said that I want to swap my R4s for R1s. My local dealer has a set of R1s. Both sets of tires are low hour tires. In addition I have chains that match the R4s.

My question to y'all is what should I expect for bartering? Other links here indicate about a $500 difference between the R4s vs the R1s, couple this with the chains for the R4s. Who's going to owe who? Should I expect to have to give additional cash?

From where I sit what I have cost more than what he has correct? Therefore worse case scenario would be a straight up trade. I am hoping that we can flop tires PLUS ????

Thoughts???

 

[bp fick]

Did you tell us the tractor you have?

I sold my turfs off my BX on Craigs. Then I ordered a set of wheels/tires from Kubota Whole Goods. If I recall correctly, the R1s were a wee bit cheaper than the R4s I chose, but the price was not earth shaking different.

Yeah, straight up, for the dealers bother, sounds just about right. YMMV. A lot depends on what he has and what he needs for re-sale.

 

[radman1]

If both tires are similar in degree of wear, ideally it should be an even swap IMHO. The R4s cost a little more when ordered new, but the dealer deserves a little break for his business and he will probably be physically doing the tire swap. Most people buy R4s rather than R1s. You may actually be doing a favor for the dealer since R4s are more desireable for most buyers.

The chains is a whole different problem. Dealer may have little to no use for the chains. I would start by just bargaining with the tire swap. Maybe put the chains for sale on craigslist ect?

 

[DmansPadge]

Yeah... yours should be worth more considering both sets have even amount of wear. But I bet the dealer is going to want something for it. And I agree it will probably be better for him to have a set of R4s laying around than a set of R1s... but you know people are in business to make money and he has something you want! Even if you did have a give a little for them it is still your best bet because buying new rims and tires aren't cheap and R1s are becoming more and more scarce on the compacts.

 

[beenthere]

Doubt a dealer will give you cash back. Hope it works out in your favor tho...cash in the pocket.

 

[PILOON]

A dealer will want profit on anything he sells.

Whenever he takes trade ins he needs profit there as well, its called wholesale/retail, so expect him to offer you a wholesale value on your trade ins.

My guess is that you'll be lucky if you get 50% of the used retail value of your tires/rims.

Don't forget he also has to warrantee your used tires when he resells them.
Plus your trades need to be a 'fast mover' or high demand set.

 

[forester2]

Why not buy them outright and sell the R4.s yourself on Craigslist or ebay if you believe there is that big a value difference.

 

[jda1961]

First off this is NOT a R4-R1 thread!!! That's a beat horse!! Now having said that I want to swap my R4s for R1s. My local dealer has a set of R1s. Both sets of tires are low hour tires. In addition I have chains that match the R4s.

My question to y'all is what should I expect for bartering? Other links here indicate about a $500 difference between the R4s vs the R1s, couple this with the chains for the R4s. Who's going to owe who? Should I expect to have to give additional cash?

From where I sit what I have cost more than what he has correct? Therefore worse case scenario would be a straight up trade. I am hoping that we can flop tires PLUS ????

Thoughts???

you are wanting to swap tires not the dealer, so he has the advantage. he may swap even but i doubt it.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Rims ... ?
larry

 

[MossRoad]

Rims ... ?
larry

And Tire Diameter?

 

[ElDorado]

Okay guys, answers to questions:
1) I am talking about a Kioti DK35
2) The dealer has weighted R1 tires/rims. The tractor currently has R4's, rims, no weight, and chains (not installed). Both are OEM - specific for the DK35.

I would rather not buy the R1s outright and sell the R4s if I can help it. I am afraid of ending up with both sets.

I am also having dealer add a Woods BH80 and block heater (if doesn't have). Additionally the tractor may need service. Unsure as this is a used unit I am buying. Additionally I have resigned myself to having dealer pick up the tractor 200+ miles away. All these things working together and I want to have some negotiating room.

As an aside the machine is said to be a 2005 (although serial number reveals 2003) DK35, shuttle shift, 70 hours, garage kept, R4s, chains. Oh and it is in cherry condition.

Thanks!

 

[wolc123]

If you can get him to do an even swap, that would be great as the weight added to R1 tires just about cancels out the extra cost of the R4's. The chains are worth significantly more than the block heater, but when he throws in the labor, you are about even. That said however, if it were me, I would pay up to $100 to get it done, as those weighted R1,s will give that tractor about 3x the traction as unweighted R4's. R4's are good for industrial usage, but for anything else they are going to cause you some dissatisfaction, compared to turfs or R1's as has been discussed countless times on this forum.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I would just ask him. If he wants too much money ask him what you can buy them for.

Let him believe you have some other options on that BH ect. He will be willing to work with you.

Chris

 

[miramadar]

I would just ask him. If he wants too much money ask him what you can buy them for.

Let him believe you have some other options on that BH ect. He will be willing to work with you.

Chris

I agree. If you're going to drop $5k in his hand soon for a backhoe, he shouldn't be too stiff on this trade.

 

[Patches]

If you can get him to do an even swap, that would be great as the weight added to R1 tires just about cancels out the extra cost of the R4's. The chains are worth significantly more than the block heater, but when he throws in the labor, you are about even. That said however, if it were me, I would pay up to $100 to get it done, as those weighted R1,s will give that tractor about 3x the traction as unweighted R4's. R4's are good for industrial usage, but for anything else they are going to cause you some dissatisfaction, compared to turfs or R1's as has been discussed countless times on this forum.

If you're primary tractor use is in the garden/field, R1's are the way to go; if you use the tractor in a wooded enviroment, I hope you have shares in a tire repair shop cause you'll need them. R1's do not play well in a wooded enviroment; far more vulnerable to punctures in both the tread and side walls. This is not even considering using a loader, and or, back-hoe

 

[Diamondpilot]

If you're primary tractor use is in the garden/field, R1's are the way to go; if you use the tractor in a wooded enviroment, I hope you have shares in a tire repair shop cause you'll need them. R1's do not play well in a wooded enviroment; far more vulnerable to punctures in both the tread and side walls. This is not even considering using a loader, and or, back-hoe

I do not believe that at all. My tractor has 750 plus hours of which 2/3 have been in the woods and I have never had a single flat on my R1's. I use the loader for most every task. They sure seem to perform all around better than the other 3 tractors I work with that have R4's and Turfs.

Chris

 

[wolc123]

I have punctured R1's on the front a few times, but since they dont have tubes and are not loaded, I can fix them in about one minute with a repair kit. In 40 or so years, I have never punctured a rear R1 in the woods. The "easily punctured" thing lets folks with R4's feel a little better about giving up all that traction I suppose. The sad thing is, a 2wd tractor with R1's can develop about the same drawbar pull as a 4wd with R4's of equal weight. That is a big waste of a very expensive front drive if you ask me. I would much sooner take my chances of a flat (aint happened yet on the back anyhow) and keep the ability to drag much heavier logs out of the woods with my 4wd.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I have punctured R1's on the front a few times, but since they dont have tubes and are not loaded, I can fix them in about one minute with a repair kit. In 40 or so years, I have never punctured a rear R1 in the woods. The "easily punctured" thing lets folks with R4's feel a little better about giving up all that traction I suppose. The sad thing is, a 2wd tractor with R1's can develop about the same drawbar pull as a 4wd with R4's of equal weight. That is a big waste of a very expensive front drive if you ask me. I would much sooner take my chances of a flat (aint happened yet on the back anyhow) and keep the ability to drag much heavier logs out of the woods with my 4wd.

My 7520 comes standard with either 6 ply R1's or 10 ply R4's on the front. There is no way that they are equal for puncture resistance. And although I did give up about 30% traction by going with R4's, I have had no punctures and my front R4 tires are rated to carry 4710 lbs vs 2320 lbs with the R1's. There are pros and cons to everything.

Do you have a chart or something else that corroborates this statement? When I figured the traction difference between R1s and R4s on my tractor, the difference is about 30%. So a 2WD version would actually be about 15% less than my 4x4 unit. Now that is based solely on square inches of tire tread and depth. I have no doubt that if all the weight forward and rear were put into the equation, that the 15% difference would be much bigger than 15%, I believe more like 35-40%. Somewhere there is a chart with the traction increase of 4x4 vs 2x4. I think that the difference is 40%.

I am glad that your R1's have worked out so well for you.

 

[MossRoad]

To quote the original poster....

First off this is NOT a R4-R1 thread!!!

So let's leave the pros, cons and opinions of R1 VS R4 out of this one.

 

[ElDorado]

Okay guys, after much, too much, doinking around the dealer has my tractor to install the backhoe. I just got back from his shop and the R1's are not as he led me to believe. I would say fronts are 50% and rears are 65% and are NOT fully weighted. There clearly is some fluid in them but I could easily move them around.

My R4's have 80 hours only on them so they are new in my opinion. His R1's are well used with some slices in them.

Anyone care to give input as what the price of his might be worth? What the price on mine might be worth?

Right now I am leaning towards buying R1's outright and selling my R4's outright. Then when the R1's are shot take the money from selling the R4's and buying new R1's. But everything is negotiable, right?

Input???