Tires R4s are better in the snow than R3 turfs

[jonnmero]

This is one of the biggest myths in tractor tire chains of "falling between the cleats" If you make them "tight", they will do little to help your traction. They need to be loose as in "no tensioners" or at least loosened tensioners so the chains can "work" as they come around and make ground contact. When loosened, they look like they fall between lugs on top of the tire but coming around to make ground contact, a loosened chain will "hang" and will be the first thing to make ground contact.
Your larger problem is clearance. A big tire needs a big link (at least 3/8") to be effective. Without wheel spacers of some type, you may not be able to put this large a chain on your tractor. If indeed that is the case, then you need a smaller link and I would go to the previous recommendation of the Norwegian type chain.
The simplest chain for you would be the 2 link ladder If you can fit them on w/o hitting the tractor. Big tires usually mean expensive chain but 2 link ladders would mitigate some of the cost of going to more exotic designs.

The chains in the picture are 'floating chains' i.e. they fit relatively loosely around the tire, just tight enough not to fall off or hit the fenders or other on the tractor. I don't know if these are 'Norwegian chains', but from what I hear it is the local chain factory who invented the system. They are not produced here anymore as Norwegian salaries are way to high. But they still have a tremendous reputation, and are called Tellefsdal.

 

[arrow]

The chains in the picture are 'floating chains' i.e. they fit relatively loosely around the tire, just tight enough not to fall off or hit the fenders or other on the tractor. I don't know if these are 'Norwegian chains', but from what I hear it is the local chain factory who invented the system. They are not produced here anymore as Norwegian salaries are way to high. But they still have a tremendous reputation, and are called Tellefsdal.

Nice paint job on the Foton. Didn't even know what it was but what a nice color for that tractor. Yes , those chains are super effective especially on ice or hard pack.

 

[RoyJackson]

Sounds like you could use something similar to my KWB snow chains. Great on asphalt as well. They are Austrian, but I think (but can't guarantee) that they are available in North America as well. The circumferential part should help to avoid the chain falling in between the cleats.
View attachment 413942

Nice chains...couldn't find any US dealers though.

 

[check]

This is what I have (v-bars), but man are they rough on pavement!

 

[newt92]

For my uses on snow,

2305, I run HDAPs on the front and loaded ags on the rear. Tractor handles my 60" snow blade pretty good. First year I had this tractor I ran my R4s and tractor was just helpless..

2520, I run my R3s in the winter, they are amazing IMO, not loaded and use my loader and 6' rear blade. I used to use my R4s to which the rears are loaded, and found myself spinning all the time..

 

[jonnmero]

Nice chains...couldn't find any US dealers though.

Might be possible to get them directly from Austria? Or maybe find someone to import them?
They are also a cinch to get on, takes all of 5 minutes after the first fit.

 

[RoyJackson]

Might be possible to get them directly from Austria? Or maybe find someone to import them?
They are also a cinch to get on, takes all of 5 minutes after the first fit.

I think the shipping costs would be prohibitive.

 

[jonnmero]

I think the shipping costs would be prohibitive.

Paid about USD 700 equivalent for the rear wheel set. That included a 25% government penalty for buying anything. But the joy of good quality lingers long after the itch from the sting of a high price is forgotten Or something to that effect.

 

[Reg]

If you do it correctly you can arange the chains on the R4s so that they ride over the lugs and not in the valies. Granted they do not have as high a percentage of chain on the ground as R3s but you can have plenty enough if done right. I learned it the HARD way.

That doesn't work for very long, at least not on the 17.5Lx24 R4s on my small tractor.
Those wretched "laws of Fizzzix" INSIST on the chain finding the path of least resistance, i.e. they soon get knocked off the lugs, nestle down between them and STAY there and stay VERY SLACK.
I have a set of 18x20x44 R3s that I have put the same set of Peerless Duo chains on and there is no comparison, the R3s with chains work BETTER in snow and ice for GRIP.

I can often SHOVE snow better with the R4s, but this is because they are loaded with 1100 lbs or so of fluid. The R3s, as "turf" tires are for dry season, primarily mowing, so those aren't loaded.
1/2 ton of more weight to the ground makes a BIG difference to snow shoving.
1/2 ton LESS weight to the ground makes a similar BIG difference to lawn damage.
YMMV, etc.

 

[Reg]

This is one of the biggest myths in tractor tire chains of "falling between the cleats" If you make them "tight", they will do little to help your traction. They need to be loose as in "no tensioners" or at least loosened tensioners so the chains can "work" as they come around and make ground contact. When loosened, they look like they fall between lugs on top of the tire but coming around to make ground contact, a loosened chain will "hang" and will be the first thing to make ground contact.
Your larger problem is clearance. A big tire needs a big link (at least 3/8") to be effective. Without wheel spacers of some type, you may not be able to put this large a chain on your tractor. If indeed that is the case, then you need a smaller link but more cross chain (2 link).
The simplest chain for you would be the 2 link ladder If you can fit them on w/o hitting the tractor. There are designs that use a smaller link purposely for clearance problems. Big tires usually mean expensive chain but 2 link ladders would mitigate some of the cost of going to more exotic designs.

The REAL purpose of leaving chains slack, or "floating", is to enable them to self clear.

It has nothing to do with hoping that an imaginary loop will somehow jump out of the gap between lugs and magically find a lug peak to rest on for a few degrees of tire rotation.

 

[Reg]

I am going to be ordering up a set of these non v-bar chains for my tractor with R4's:
DUO-Grip tire chains for farm tractors

I have a similar set that I use on 18x20x44 R3s, they work much better on those than on the similar size 17.5Lx24 R4s.
At the time there were two different vendors, one was tirechains.com - I don't remember the other one, other than it was a web order place with a similar name.
Here's where memory loss REALLY BITES - I don't remember which one I bought from, other than it was the one selling Peerless brand chains and they were drop shipped directly from Peerless in MN.
Around $300, but it was a few years ago.
Not absolutely certain that the Peerless are that much better just because of their point of manufacture, though I probably favored them because of that at the time.

 

[Garandman]

This thread promises to rank right up there with AK vs M16, 9mm vs 45ACP, Mustang vs Camaro, Ariens vs Honda, or the Pickup Wars.....

I grooved my R4's and got a ballast box because I learned A. the L3200 needs spacers, and B. my three neighbors with Kubotas don't have chains.

I never heard of that kind of snow [corn or meal].

Corn snow is Granular or Frozen Granular - large granules that freeze together at night.

Meal is likely Loose Granular: smaller granules that don't stick together. Ski reports use these and other terms to describe the surface snow. Corn is very common in the spring. Meal or LG is liking skiing in quicksand.

i was surprised to learn there are three ski areas in Iowa.

 

[jonnmero]

The REAL purpose of leaving chains slack, or "floating", is to enable them to self clear.

It has nothing to do with hoping that an imaginary loop will somehow jump out of the gap between lugs and magically find a lug peak to rest on for a few degrees of tire rotation.

From what I was explained so is the floating property of chains to distribute tire wear evenly as this avoids the chain to rub constantly in the same places. That kind of wear would no doubt have been a problem in countries where chains are used on tractors all winter.

 

[Creamer]

I am mystified. Claims of R3s being better on ice and snow than R4s? With my loader on and no weighting in the back I don't move on ice on level ground without the FWD engaged. Even with a 6' back blade hanging on I still have a very hard time getting things moving and certainly have no push. My tires are older - probably original - Firestone diamond tread. On the front I have R4s which will quickly dig a hole trying to move the backend.

The only way I push snow is with momentum and finesse certainly not with power and traction. Of course I have never used chains (I have them) because I do not want the pavement damage in the area that is paved or grass damage when it thaws in the winter.

That is not to say i don't have a lot of fun pushing snow in high gear and turns on a little snow or ice are great - crank the front wheels and hit one rear brake and I do a 180 and am going the other way in less than a second. that is much faster than having to do a turn! Of course I am accused of all kinds of things when people see me.

 

[super55]

Wow,

Apparently I'm the only one that prefers to use R1's over R3s or 4s. I've used all three at one time or another. Turfs will by far give you the most bite on hard packed snow or icy conditions but are completely useless if trying to get through any depth of snow. The industrials don't have a wide enough bite and the pads are too wide so they don't bite all that well.

With the R1s on the kubota I had that thing would just keep moving. I wouldn't spin out moving banks and if I had to get to the wood stack I could just drive through up to 2' of snow without any issue even to the point that the axle was plowing snow as I moved along. They were all that bad on hard pack snow either but they are a world of difference compared to the other two in deep snow.

 

[Reg]

I don't have a lab environment in which I can experiment by changing ONLY ONE variable at a time.
The switch between R4s and R3s is ALSO between ballasted and empty and between chains that stay on the tire surface or drop into the gaps between lugs.
In both cases I have left them free to self clean, the R3s become no better than the R4s in deep snow if tightened, they just load up - as expected.

ALL THAT combined the R3s with chains give better traction than the R4s with chains AND 1100 of fluid - I attribute that to the fact that they stay ON the tread and that advantage outweighs the 1100 lbs of additional wheel weight.

Before ballasting the R4s I had noticed that the R3s were a bit better on ice without chains.
Sure, they load up sooner in snow, but on ice their additional edges help.
Tread EDGES are what initially "bite" - however weakly the more the better, this is why siping works, to some degree.

Yeah this is apples vs oranges, but I have somewhat separate uses for both apples and for oranges.

Bottom line; R3s with slack chains beat the other alternatives I have available to me.

 

[Reg]

Wow,

Apparently I'm the only one that prefers to use R1's over R3s or 4s. I've used all three at one time or another. Turfs will by far give you the most bite on hard packed snow or icy conditions but are completely useless if trying to get through any depth of snow. The industrials don't have a wide enough bite and the pads are too wide so they don't bite all that well.

With the R1s on the kubota I had that thing would just keep moving. I wouldn't spin out moving banks and if I had to get to the wood stack I could just drive through up to 2' of snow without any issue even to the point that the axle was plowing snow as I moved along. They were all that bad on hard pack snow either but they are a world of difference compared to the other two in deep snow.

Perhaps a MINOR point, but R4s can typically take on more liquid ballast than R1s - size for size equivalence, figure 40 to 50% more.
This can help a LOT when shoving or stacking snow.
Kubotas are at a weight disadvantage anyway, so an additional few hundred pounds would probably help more on those.
R1s are NOT rated for use with a loader.

 

[jonnmero]

Wow,

Apparently I'm the only one that prefers to use R1's over R3s or 4s. I've used all three at one time or another. Turfs will by far give you the most bite on hard packed snow or icy conditions but are completely useless if trying to get through any depth of snow. The industrials don't have a wide enough bite and the pads are too wide so they don't bite all that well.

With the R1s on the kubota I had that thing would just keep moving. I wouldn't spin out moving banks and if I had to get to the wood stack I could just drive through up to 2' of snow without any issue even to the point that the axle was plowing snow as I moved along. They were all that bad on hard pack snow either but they are a world of difference compared to the other two in deep snow.

Nan, nah, not so quick, mate! You're not a lone swallow here
Chains are good, but, as you say, in deep, wet-ish snow nothing beats the R1s! Okay, the road gets a bit chewed up in spring, but some compromises have to be made. And my little Foton with 24" rear wheels and 14" front makes it uphill where the Ford with 30" rears wouldn't make it downhill.

 

[arrow]

The REAL purpose of leaving chains slack, or "floating", is to enable them to self clear.

It has nothing to do with hoping that an imaginary loop will somehow jump out of the gap between lugs and magically find a lug peak to rest on for a few degrees of tire rotation.

I don't have to hope for a thing. What is "real" is what works. Loose chain on certain lugged tires has been a game changer as it relates to traction for many here as opposed when they have been tightly snugged. As far as a "few degrees" is concerned, apparently "a few degrees" is all it takes making the difference between spinning and traction. As I look back on the ice I've traveled on, I'll remember that I am just "imagining" all the bite marks I see.

 

[71bronco]

Perhaps a MINOR point, but R4s can typically take on more liquid ballast than R1s - size for size equivalence, figure 40 to 50% more.
This can help a LOT when shoving or stacking snow.
Kubotas are at a weight disadvantage anyway, so an additional few hundred pounds would probably help more on those.
R1s are NOT rated for use with a loader.

R1s may flex a little more with a load but I've had no problems even when maxing out my 724 loader. I've drug logs out of my woods that i know only R1s had the traction to make it. Deep snow and mud.
I plow with a 7.5' loader mounted plow on 220' concrete drive and 200' of gravel drive and can still push with snow coming over the top of the plow.

Jeff