Reasons to use Super UDT

familyman · Sep 11, 2004

Today I did my 50 hour UDT and filter change. Instead of using Kubota Super UDT I used Traveler brand UDT from Tractor Supply, because it was much cheaper and because someone here had posted that they use it all the time and like it.
I immediately noticed that the power and response were lessened. I can take guesses at why this is so, but I thought I could live with it until some serious digging with the BH and FEL were hampered enough to annoy me.
After digging for a while with the FEL, I got off the machine and found that the BH had drifted nearly to the ground! This has never happened since I bought it.
Needless to say, my next servicing will include Super UDT to get my performance back!
/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gifHas anyone else had a similar experience? /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Charley

gugy · Sep 11, 2004

Charley,I'm sorry I can't give you a answer but not for anything I want to hear the replies to this one.
Gugy

sneaky_pete · Sep 11, 2004

I'm a terrible cheapskate, but IMO oil and hydraulic fluid are the wrong places to economize. The cost of the best products are still inconsequential compared to the investment in a good tractor and repairs down the road.

Kubota Super UDT may be synthetic and the best stuff going, but I guarantee they don't refine or make it themselves, they buy it from an oil company. If you're going to use aftermarket products, stick with the major oil company name brands and you can't go wrong, especially with their fully synthetic products which are far superior to any conventional oil.

TSC buys theirs from some oil company too, but with very low grade specs so they can sell it cheap. Dealer-branded stuff excepted, you usually get what you pay for in oil and lube products.

Pete (in the oil business)

familyman · Sep 11, 2004

Of course your're right, Pete. I've always felt that way and bought that way, especially when it comes to engines and automatic transmissions.
My dealer said that when it came time for service there was no reason to go with Super UDT, just use regular UDT. I took him to mean that the benefits of Super UDT would not be appreciated in a "gear" machine. Live and learn! : /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Charley

Alan L. · Sep 11, 2004

I wasn't even aware that Super UDT is synthetic. My understanding was that the main benefit is it doesn't stiffen up in cold weather, and that there is no benefit for us down here in Texas, at least during the summer. My tractor currently has Super UDT in it, but I have also put regular UDT in there.

Junkman · Sep 11, 2004

My take on this is that if regular UDT were good enough for the tractor that Kubota would install regular UDT in the tractors instead of the higher priced Super UDT. I also don't understand why dealers say that you can use a different product in the machines of a lesser quality than that which was originally installed at the factory. One of the problems that I have experience in the past is knowing what tractors come factory filled and what tractors are shipped dry and filled by the selling dealer. If it is factory installed with Super UDT, then I would use Super UDT as the replacement unless I found another product that stated that it was a direct replacement for Super UDT. I have also never understood the logic of spending between $15,000 and $40,000 for a tractor and then complaining about the maintenance costs of the oils. If you can afford the tractor, then you should be able to afford the proper oil for it. If you (the figurative "you", and not any one poster) are a cheap skate, then why didn't you buy some off brand tractor that will run on motor oil in the hydraulic system. It would be more to your way of thinking cheap. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

familyman · Sep 11, 2004

I'll let everyone know in a few months if the change back to Super is worth it. The difference with the cheap stuff was noticeable right away today. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

familyman · Sep 11, 2004

The Kubota manual specifies that either Super or regular UDT may be used in the L2800.
As I stated, the dealer suggested that I use regular UDT in my machine, and a TBN poster recommended a particular brand, well known to most of us. That's not being cheap, it's being logical. It was also, unfortunately, a mistake.
Based on your reply to me, you have the impression that I am a "cheapskate", and that my way is to think cheap. Also, if you read my post, you will note that I didn't complain about the cost of maintenance. Maybe you should go take a Midol and stop calling people names. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Junkman · Sep 12, 2004

If you read what I have posted, you will realize that I didn't call you or any one else cheap. Here is my statement.

( If you can afford the tractor, then you should be able to afford the proper oil for it. If you (the figurative "you", and not any one poster) are a cheap skate, then why didn't you buy some off brand tractor that will run on motor oil in the hydraulic system. It would be more to your way of thinking cheap.)

As for using UDT or Super UDT, my reply was specifically regarding the tractors that were originally shipped with Super UDT from the factory. It's all a matter of priorities.
Good lubrication is a good investment. You can't foresee all the variables when buying an off brand oil.
Now, why don't you take the Midol and put your glasses on... /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Dargo · Sep 12, 2004

I've been changing the UDT in my tractor and Kubota RTV. The first, and main reason I used Kubota brand was that I was told by my dealer that if I had a failure during the warranty period and I had not used Kubota brand, my warranty would likely be void. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif That was a big enough reason. Between the Super UDT and regular UDT, it has been stated that the Super UDT flows better in cold weather. Well, that would be an exact characteristic of synthetic oil. It does not thicken with cooler temps. Also, if it is synthetic, it would not allow proper break-in of components. That would explain why it would not come from the factory with Super UDT as opposed to regular UDT.
In my personal experience, my Kubota RTV had gotten to where it was darn near impossible to get out of gear once I'd driven it. For example, If I drove it around my place in "M" range and then stopped and decided to put it int "H" range; forget it. I could break the lever off before it would move. I'd literally have to shut the engine off and then get it out of gear. I changed the transmission filters and filled it up with Super UDT at 25 hours, and have not had a single problem since!
You are right, Kubota does not make their own oil. However, when it is under warranty, it is their bat and their ball; so if you want to play with them you have to abide by their rules. Anyway, the Super UDT fixed a problem (a VERY annoying problem) for me, so I'm happy. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

ronjhall · Sep 12, 2004

Charley
Since you live in a colder climate I'll give you some links to Super UDT discussions.
Click Here

I use Super UDT in my B2910.

I also use only the recommended trans oil in my JD F735. They recommend that only their HY-GARD be use in temperatures below 0 degrees.

familyman · Sep 12, 2004

"If you (blah blah blah) are a cheap skate..."
I don't need glasses, your words and intent are plain to all.
As to whether or not I or anyone else on this site "should be able to afford" anything at any time without due consideration for personal economy is a pompous assumption. I know it's hard, your majesty, but try not to sit in judgement of others and make accusations. This forum was designed, I thought, for us to share experiences and insights for the benefit af all. I asked if anyone else has had a similar experience with regard to the difference in performance between two products. Hopefully someone will post a good reply.

familyman · Sep 12, 2004

Thanks Ron. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

sneaky_pete · Sep 12, 2004

( ...The first, and main reason I used Kubota brand was that I was told by my dealer that if I had a failure during the warranty period and I had not used Kubota brand, my warranty would likely be void. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif That was a big enough reason. ... when it is under warranty, it is their bat and their ball; so if you want to play with them you have to abide by their rules. )

Not so; your dealer is breaking a federal law and exposing himself to a potential lawsuit. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act specifically states:

“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name....” (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)).

So, unless your dealer provides you with UDT for free, he cannot void your warranty no matter what brand you use.

For full details, go here

Pete

familyman · Sep 12, 2004

Dargo, my tractor came from the factory filled with Super UDT, as was explained to me by my dealer and the manual. I'm surprised your RTV didn't also. Yes, synthetics slow down the rate of wear, which can be a bad thing for a new engine, but a manual gearbox will probably just break in more slowly. I'm still getting used to the rattling and whining my trans makes. I'm starting to think that it's the nature of the beast and full break in won't reduce it much.

JoeR · Sep 12, 2004

I am so curious to know if changing back to super UDT will fix the problem that I am hoping you do it soon so that I will know the results! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I too considered different brands of hyfraulic fluid, but I am glad I can learn from others before I make a decision.

Thanks for your post and it will be very interesting to know the outcome.

Joe

familyman · Sep 12, 2004

Hey, Joe!
As of this afternoon a new problem has cropped up. The tractor now has a small leak somewhere at the rearend. It's not serious, but it wasn't there before. I checked all the trans drain bolts and they're all dry. The drips are coming off the 4 bolts that hold the drawbar mount to the tractor, but I can't imagine oil leaking from there. It's oozing from somewhere above, and when my dealer picks it up to install the BH subframe (which I can't believe I'm still waiting for -- are you listening, BushHog?!?!?) I'll have him track it down. I hope it's covered under warranty. Keep you posted.

Charley

ZackaryMac · Sep 12, 2004

I know you guys aren't much interested in the older B series stuff, but in my owners manual it shows 9 different manufacturers' equivalent to UDT. Also, it doesn't even mention Super UDT. The manual was likely before the synthetic was around.

v8dave · Sep 13, 2004

Given the new leaks, leak down and poor performance, it looks like the replacement oil may be too thin.

I wouldn't wait until the next next regular service to replace the "mistake." I'd do it now and I'd especially do it before I took it to the dealer. The potential to increase the cost of the mistake is increasing all the while you continue to use the TSC substitute.

YMMV, but, better safe than sorry?

familyman · Sep 13, 2004

I was thinking along those lines, but the way BushHog is (isn't) moving it may be a while before the dealer picks it up. In my e-mail to BushHog yesterday I mentioned that I am relating the BH sub frame baloney to the readers at TBN. Let's see if it wakes them up!
I'm not sure that the oil will have any negative effects besides those mentioned -- but then I didn't think it would do what it's doing either.
A couple of months back I had posted a query as to whether or not our readership thought it would be possible to drain, filter and reinstall the Super UDT at the 50hr servicing. Most posters felt it was not a good idea, but after draining it I'm not so sure. That oil was in beautiful shape -- clean and nearly clear with almost no smell. It seems to me that the three factors effecting hydro oil are 1) oxidation (over time), 2) heat, 3) metal from internal wear. The first two should not be much of a factor for me in three months (50hrs). Which leaves the possibility of filtering to deal with #3. My grandfather had an old car in his barn (a Hudson?) that had some sort of built-in filtering pan or box which contained diatomaceous earth for filtering the oil. He said that he only changed the oil once a year because the filter box kept it sparkling clean. Of course in an engine blow-by would put gasoline and other byproducts of combustion in the oil which might not be filtered out, but blow-by is not a factor in my tractors transmission.
Just some thoughts.