Revolvers

[firefighter9208]

I've got three great mouse guns that I use for backup:

Browning Auto .25ACP

SIGARMS P-232 .380

Beretta BobCat - .22LR

Target the CNS only with these and you'll be fine.

A 22 LR or 22 Mag can do a lot of damage bouncing around from bone to bone inside the intended target. May not blow a hole out the backside, but can cause some pretty massive internal bleeding.

Chris

 

[DieselPower]

The main problem with small caliber weapons isn't that they don't do internal body damage. The problem is will they even make it that far. Don't forget that in the winter time someone can be wearing quite a bit of clothing, not to mention what they might have in a pocket that the bullet might hit. I want the round to get to the perps body no questions asked.

 

[Soundguy]

I don't think I'd want to be the guy who is stopped for speeding and opens his wallet holster to retrieve his driver's license for the trooper!

I think a 'shoot-thru' wallet holster is what is illegal.. not a simple square flap 'wallet' holster..

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

A 22 LR or 22 Mag can do a lot of damage bouncing around from bone to bone inside the intended target. May not blow a hole out the backside, but can cause some pretty massive internal bleeding.

Chris

22 is plenty lethal. When my stepfather was young. they used to deer hunt ( florida) with 22... He indicated it wasn't a problem unless you were one of those guys that shot up the ham.. then had to track the blood trail or something... Just hit a vital spot.. ...

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

The main problem with small caliber weapons isn't that they don't do internal body damage. The problem is will they even make it that far. Don't forget that in the winter time someone can be wearing quite a bit of clothing, not to mention what they might have in a pocket that the bullet might hit. I want the round to get to the perps body no questions asked.

It's not only a problem with small caliber weapons. I've seen first hand where 38's and similar rounds were deflected or stopped, or went from 'kill' shots' to 'wound' shots from things like badges, large coins, metal cigarette/cigar holder/tube, small book in a vest pocket... etc.

if you size your gun and penetration needs for worst possible scenerio and assume that every assailant has the equivalent of 2A body armor under their clothing. then you might as well carry a rifle..

That's also why it's good to have more than a 1-shot firearm. Even a perp with a parka on, and a pocket full of silver dollars, and other goodies can be taken down from extremety damage or face shots. since average self defense shots are fires inthe 6-10' range... accurate shooting is not totally out of the question.. especially since when dealing with small carry weapons like we are discussin.. the are pretty much point and click.. IE.. shooting down the arm... wherever your finger is pointing.. the bullet goes.

If you still have penetration concerns with small calibers.. use FMJ or S/WC instead of HP/JHP

Soundguy

 

[DieselPower]

The FBI has dedicated quite a bit of study to the subject and came up with a test protocol for ammunition. It includes penetration test into Bare Gelatin and then Gelatin covered by the following, Heavy Clothing, IWBA Heavy Clothing, Plywood, Steel, Wallboard, Auto Glass. Try passing this test with a 22.

Synopsis Of The FBI Ammunition Test Protocol

And a example of a FBI Protocol test performed with 38 Spl +P 135 Grain Speer Gold Dot Hollow Point bullets. http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bullet_tests.htm

 

[silverdollar6]

Friend and I used to hunt ground hogs with pistols years ago, He used a 38 special and I used a 22 magnum. One day we took a shot at an old bathtub back in the woods that was made of some kind of metal, the 38special made a pretty good dent but did not penetrate, the 22magnum went through the side and almost through the other side.

 

[GaryM]

I think a 'shoot-thru' wallet holster is what is illegal.. not a simple square flap 'wallet' holster..

soundguy

Right SoundGuy, what is illegal is a holster, or other device, that allows the firearm to operate while it's still in the holster. If you have to draw the firearm before firing it's fine with the BATF boys.

Many of the pocket holsters have a leather or Kydex flap on the outside that serves to conceal the outline of the pistol while it's in your pocket. When you draw, the holster stays in your pocket as the pistol slips out.

I have two pocket holsters for my Kahr PM40 and one for a Baretta 21A. Just ordered one for my S&W 642. Pocket holsters are great!

 

[MossRoad]

Friend and I used to hunt ground hogs with pistols years ago, He used a 38 special and I used a 22 magnum. One day we took a shot at an old bathtub back in the woods that was made of some kind of metal, the 38special made a pretty good dent but did not penetrate, the 22magnum went through the side and almost through the other side.

I don't doubt you, but I'm pretty sure the 38 special has way more ooomph than a 22 mag.

 

[TheHammer]

I think a 'shoot-thru' wallet holster is what is illegal.. not a simple square flap 'wallet' holster..

soundguy

Soundguy,

You're right - that was just my attempt at humor. Apparently the ATF doesn't think too highly of them either. From NAA's website:

Why has the wallet holster been discontinued?

"The wallet, in and of itself, is a benign piece of folded leather. The minirevolver is a time-tested, high-quality small firearm but, when you join one with the other, watch out! _ you've just created what ATF defines as 'any other weapon', a rather nefarious classification which includes pen guns, cane guns and other disguised weaponry. While legal to own, AOWs require registration and payment of special taxes similar to those for fully-automatic weapons. Possession of an AOW without meeting these requirements subjects the holder to a felony charge (which further exposes us to the liability of a lawsuit).

The distinction between the WH and the folding holster grip or the belt buckle, as it has been explained to us, is that the WH weapon is operable from its disguised state (no need to remove it from the wallet in order to fire it). Both the HG and BB require that the gun be additionally manipulated (opened, removed) before it is functional, and so suffer no 'special' classification. The WH was a very popular accessory and it's a great disappointment that we're unable to offer it for sale."