Rimguard vs. Methanol

[beppington]

After reading Rimguard's website, I'd probably just use windshield washer fluid. It's a little lighter than Rimguard, but you can run down to WalMart, Pep Boys, wherever, to get it.

Rimguard's website says windshield washer fluid is "somewhat toxic", whatever that means, but hey every car sprays it all over your own windshield, which is right around the corner from your own open side window, so how bad can it be.

As always, my :2cents:

 

[IslandTractor]

I'd still say that RimGuard is the preferred tire ballast so long as you either have the dealer install it before delivery or you are near a dealer to have it installed. I had it in my first tractor and thought it was a good choice especially because of the high weight per volume compared to other non CaCl alternatives.

However, for field or owner added ballast, WWF or methanol/water mix just seems a lot easier and has fewer downsides than anything else.

The RimGuard website unfairly critiques WWF/meth/water IMO. The subtle introduction of the "flammability" issue is just sleazeball negative advertising with no data to support it. They just throw around worrisome terms and hope some of it sticks in the consumers mind.

 

[baronthered]

Don't worry bout the methanol. The only time you need to worry about flammability is if it's over round 40 proof. In tires mixed with water no problem.

 

[Mace Canute]

Just to put things in perspective regarding the flammability of methanol, the auto ignition temperature (the minimum temperature required to ignite a gas or vapor in air without a spark or flame being present) of gasoline is about 535 degrees F. The auto ignition temperature of methanol is about 725 degrees F.

Fuels and Chemicals - Auto Ignition Temperatures

Here's a chart that gives good freezing points versus concentrations of methanol.

 

[Wacky]

Thanks to all for the replies. My new 2610 has the Methanol mix, I was wondering if it was good enough. I did not opt to have the front tires filled, just thought it was a waste due to the size of the tires. Was this a good idea or not? I do operate on steep inclines.

 

[Diamondpilot]

We run WWF around here. I buy it in 55 gallon drums for about $40 at the oil supply house. I then use a 12volt pump designed for a garden sprayer to put it in with some bits of hose and a valve I got at Napa for filling tires. Took less than a hour to put about 25 gallons in each wheel. No issues yet.

Chris

 

[crazyal]

Personally I would stick with rim guard. The reason why Methanol is added to windshield washer fluid is not to keep it from freezing, methylated spirits are used for that. It's added to clean things like road grime and bugs from your windshield. Secondly if you get a flat you'll be dumping a large quantity into the ground, it is toxic. When sprayed on a windshield it evaporates, rarely much more than an once is used at a time.

 

[IslandTractor]

if you get a flat you'll be dumping a large quantity into the ground, it is toxic. .

It does not persist in the ground and is minimally toxic to plants when spilled on them. The toxicity of methanol is primarily associated with direct ingestion by humans (?other mammals) in quantities that may not seem large (10-40ml of pure methanol) but these quantities would be very unlikely to be ingested by any animal as the leaking tire fluid would drain immediately into the ground. It does not persist in the soil. Basically, except for the toxicity induced by hepatic metabolism, methanol is really no more toxic than ethanol. I'm not sure there are studies to quote but it is likely no worse for the environment than spilling a similar quantity of wine (15% ethanol) into the ground.

 

[gauthier]

The only reason I would care if I got methinal on the ground would be it would mean I got a leak,

 

[DiezNutz]

Rimguard's website says windshield washer fluid is "somewhat toxic", whatever that means...

Bad news for those roving gangs of tire ballast thieves that are just waiting to strike, siphon tubes in hand...

 

[crazyal]

It does not persist in the ground and is minimally toxic to plants when spilled on them. The toxicity of methanol is primarily associated with direct ingestion by humans (?other mammals) in quantities that may not seem large (10-40ml of pure methanol) but these quantities would be very unlikely to be ingested by any animal as the leaking tire fluid would drain immediately into the ground. It does not persist in the soil. Basically, except for the toxicity induced by hepatic metabolism, methanol is really no more toxic than ethanol. I'm not sure there are studies to quote but it is likely no worse for the environment than spilling a similar quantity of wine (15% ethanol) into the ground.

If you would like to open your eyes up try reading this:

Consumer Products Regulation Affecting Automotive Windshield Washer Fluid

WWF is toxic. It has a high level of VOCs in it. It's not just the Methanol.

 

[Duffster]

If you would like to open your eyes up try reading this:

Consumer Products Regulation Affecting Automotive Windshield Washer Fluid

WWF is toxic. It has a high level of VOCs in it. It's not just the Methanol.

From the fine folks that brought us CARB. :confused2:

 

[IslandTractor]

If you would like to open your eyes up try reading this:

Consumer Products Regulation Affecting Automotive Windshield Washer Fluid

WWF is toxic. It has a high level of VOCs in it. It's not just the Methanol.

1) Are you serious? Plants emit hundreds or thousands of times more VOCs than all man made VOCs
2) Methanol is itself a volatile organic compound and is the only substantial ingredient other than water in WWF. What are the other VOC's you are concerned about?
3) WWF is toxic only if ingested (methanol remember).
4) EPA says methanol has basically no impact on fish or terrestrial animals from environmental exposure (as opposed to actual ingestion).
5) Even in California they spray WWF by the millions of gallons all over roads
6) We are talking about contained use of methanol in tractor tires where there might be a small risk of leakage but where for practical purposes it will rarely get into the environment at all.
7) TBN members fart more VOCs in a day than would be released by leakage of WWF or methanol/water from their tractor tires in a year.

 

[wedge40]

1)rarely get into the environment at all.
7) TBN members fart more VOCs in a day than would be released by leakage of WWF or methanol/water from their tractor tires in a year.

Hey!!! my farts are clean. No VOC's here.

 

[crazyal]

1) Are you serious? Plants emit hundreds or thousands of times more VOCs than all man made VOCs
2) Methanol is itself a volatile organic compound and is the only substantial ingredient other than water in WWF. What are the other VOC's you are concerned about?
3) WWF is toxic only if ingested (methanol remember).
4) EPA says methanol has basically no impact on fish or terrestrial animals from environmental exposure (as opposed to actual ingestion).
5) Even in California they spray WWF by the millions of gallons all over roads
6) We are talking about contained use of methanol in tractor tires where there might be a small risk of leakage but where for practical purposes it will rarely get into the environment at all.
7) TBN members fart more VOCs in a day than would be released by leakage of WWF or methanol/water from their tractor tires in a year.

So your argument is that other things also emit VOCs and the chance of it leaking out is not all that great. Not much of an argument when a slightly more expensive yet safe alternative can easily be had.

 

[Mace Canute]

crazyal, do you use ethylene glycol or propylene glycol in your vehicles?

 

[IslandTractor]

So your argument is that other things also emit VOCs and the chance of it leaking out is not all that great. Not much of an argument when a slightly more expensive yet safe alternative can easily be had.

My argument is that given the specifics of methanol use in tractor tire ballast that worrying about VOCs is beyond silly. This country produces over 2.5 Billion gallons of methanol a year. Worrying that ten or twenty gallons might possibly get spilled into a field is hard to comprehend in the big picture especially when millions of cars are spraying it on their windshields on a regular basis.

The "slightly more expensive" alternative can cost five or six times what self installed WWF costs as for practical purposes RimGuard can only be installed by dealers with relatively special equipment. I have nothing against RimGuard and in fact used it in one of my tractors but WWF is an economical and effective substitute that many people use successfully.

 

[gauthier]

When did every body get so worried about a little gas or methinal spilled on the ground? Must be one of those suburbinite things,people got a 30 hp 4 wd tractor on a 2 acre lot?,,yeah,guess if thats the only room I had,wouldn't want to spill much on that...

 

[Johnny_B]

When did every body get so worried about a little gas or methinal spilled on the ground? Must be one of those suburbinite things,people got a 30 hp 4 wd tractor on a 2 acre lot?,,yeah,guess if thats the only room I had,wouldn't want to spill much on that...

Hey...it's only about 23 HP and it's 3 acres :thumbsup: Methanol spillage, no problem. As for spilling gas, that's a different story for a different day.

Everyone is talking about Rim Guard not being toxic and/or methanol being toxic. They are both toxic, but they are not of concern at the amount being used (especially if you are using highly diluted methanol in WWF). So don't let "toxicity" or "environmentally friendliness" be your deciding factor.

Methanol (CH3-OH) breaks down naturally in sunlight to carbon dioxide (CO2) and water (H2O).

Rim Guard is calcium chloride (CaCl) with some proprietary rust inhibitors (see link below), and CaCl crystals are sold as de-icer at Lowes and Home Depot.

CaCl has a reported LD50 of 1000 mg/kg based on oral ingestion and methanol has an LD50 of 5600 mg/kg based on oral ingestion. It takes 5x more methanol to exibit death to 50% of the test organisms than calcium chloride (LD50 = a lethal dose to 50% of the test population - this is how chemicals are classified for toxicity). On this dose based example, CaCl is more toxic. (However, methanol is almost certainly more acutely toxic).

Here is the MSDS for Rim Guard (click on the MSDS .PDF file on the right column).
BallastStar - RIM GUARD Spec Sheet

Here are the MSDSs for methanol and CaCl that show the oral LD50:
METHYL ALCOHOL

CALCIUM CHLORIDE, PELLETS

 

[k0ua]

WoW no-one ever said that RimGuard was actually Calcium Cloride with some propriatary rust inhibitors before.. looks like it might be more toxic than methanol after all! hat about the "beet juice" rumor.? I have always heard the RimGuard was mostly beet juice, not according to the MSDS sheet.

WASTE DISPOSAL METHOD: Follow all applicable regulations if applicable. Not listed as a hazardous waste.
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PRECAUTIONS TO BE TAKEN IN HANDLING AND STORAGE: Avoid direct contact with skin and eyes. Avoid fumes in confined spaces.
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OTHER PRECAUTIONS: Properly dispose of all saturated clothes, gloves and shoes. Observe good personal hygiene.
===================================================================================================================================
SECTION VIII - CONTROL MEASURES
===================================================================================================================================
VENTILATION REQUIREMENTS: Use local exhaust to capture fumes when handling in confined spaces.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT: Use of gloves, boots, and long sleeved shirts and pants is required to avoid contact. Use splash
goggles when eye contact may occur. Minimize breathing vapor, mists or fumes. For misty condition, wear NIOSH approved mist
respirator.
===================================================================================================================================
SECTION IX - ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
===================================================================================================================================
ADDITIONAL MANUFACTURER WARNINGS: Warning Keep away from zinc as in galvanized iron.
Store and transport this material in closed containers. Protect from physical damage. Do not store in metals which this solution
corrodes.
-----------------------------------

And I dont like the Zinc reaction.
Very Enlightning post, Thanks.
Well does anyone know anything bad about the Propylene Glycol? other than it cost's an arm and a leg:laughing: