Road material

[Jlblake]

What have you got to lose, besides your time and $135? Even the best operator was green the first time that he tried something.

That's the question. I appreciate the optimism. Just want to make sure I don't have much to lose.

 

[Jlblake]

Depending on your cost for materials, how much work is involved reshaping the road prior to stone, and then placing and grading the stone, 10k might not be far off. The other point is, if you are building the road yourself, might be better to buy the box blade. The road will need to be maintained, so renting 4 or so days will buy a good used one. If I was doing it myself, I'd buy the box blade. You'll find other uses for it as well. Just my opinion.

Of that $10k, how much would you estimate the cost of material to be? I agree on buying the box blade. That helps with weather issues and so forth too. I have other uses for it as well. I'm just watching YouTube videos...looks easy. Often I find things are not as easy as the video makes them appear.

Seems like the road needs to be leveled basically, drainage needs to be considered and then new top put down and compressed. It can't be that easy.

 

[Jstpssng]

There was a member who started posting questions last winter about various projects that he wanted to attempt. He seemed pretty green when he started, but with suggestions from the TBN mass he worked his way through and now has enough experience so that now I see him answering questions. Just go slow, if you aren't sure of something ask a question here and you generally will get some good suggestions.

 

[old and tired]

...I have a brand new 5065E just waiting to do some more work...

This is why some of us own a tractor... 10k is a bunch of profit for someone else. If I were you, I would get to know how to do the work beforehand... don't jump in without a plan. Got photos of your road?? How bad is it?

When I work on my road, it gets torn up pretty ugly before you finally smooth it out. Lots of time I think WTH am I doing but in the end (hopefully) it works out well. What is the base now? Any big rocks (road bed) showing? I have some areas that I can not work up because it solid big rocks, I just add more stone on top.

My road to the creek that I built, I really need to re-work the top of it... just need to find some time to get it done. I need to regrade it, improve the ditches, make it wider - that will be a mess but in the end - it will be a better road.

 

[Jlblake]

There was a member who started posting questions last winter about various projects that he wanted to attempt. He seemed pretty green when he started, but with suggestions from the TBN mass he worked his way through and now has enough experience so that now I see him answering questions. Just go slow, if you aren't sure of something ask a question here and you generally will get some good suggestions.

Hopefully I'll get to that point one day. Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[Jlblake]

This is why some of us own a tractor... 10k is a bunch of profit for someone else. If I were you, I would get to know how to do the work beforehand... don't jump in without a plan. Got photos of your road?? How bad is it?

When I work on my road, it gets torn up pretty ugly before you finally smooth it out. Lots of time I think WTH am I doing but in the end (hopefully) it works out well. What is the base now? Any big rocks (road bed) showing?

You're right, that is why I bought a tractor. Not sure why some of these things are intimidating but they are...a little bit anyway. The current road really isn't that bad, just has some rough areas. Most of the base has washed out on one area but it's pretty good in another...roughly half. There are holes on both sides. The drive is a huge loop so drainage and surface is different on one side than the other. The side that is worst is primarily dirt now. I think I can do this, I just need to start it and get to the point where I see the progress. How do you compact yours?

 

[TractorGuy]

Have you checked with your county to see if they have a private road program? Ours will bring out a road grader for$96 per hour.

 

[EddieWalker]

I really like crushed asphalt as it re glues itself under the hot sun and is especially effective on hills as it won't wash downhill.
Even the city uses it on hilly gravel roads as it saves them tons of maintenance.
I did my drive 20 years ago with it and still performing just great, in fact I plan to add a load within the next week or so in areas that were never done that first time.
Around here it is actually cheaper than crushed stone to buy but transportation is the same for both.
A 12 wheel load runs +/- $400.

This might be a regional thing, but this is the very first time I've ever heard anybody recommend crushed asphalt who has actually had it. When they redid the road in front of my place, my neighbor got some of it for his place. He spread it about 4 inches thick and a few hundred feet long with his full sized backhoe. He drove over it repeatedly to compact it. When he was done, it looked pretty good and I was thinking about getting some too. But in less then a week, it started to crack and fall apart. 2 years later, you can hardly find where any of it is, it just kept cracking up and flaking away to the point that a few good downpours started washing it away.

One of the businesses along the road had them do a parking lot with it. That didn't last a year before it started to crumble and fall apart. Then they dug it all up and had a paving company install new asphalt while it was hot and then used rollers on it.

When asphalt is installed originally, the oil is heated up to be super sticky. Then rolled while hot to compact and make it solid. When using old stuff, you cannot get it to compact because you have to add the right amount of oil, and whatever else is in that mix, and then heat it up to the right temperature.

Under no circumstance would I consider using it, no matter what it costs, even if it was free.

 

[Tomtint]

This might be a regional thing, but this is the very first time I've ever heard anybody recommend crushed asphalt who has actually had it. When they redid the road in front of my place, my neighbor got some of it for his place. He spread it about 4 inches thick and a few hundred feet long with his full sized backhoe. He drove over it repeatedly to compact it. When he was done, it looked pretty good and I was thinking about getting some too. But in less then a week, it started to crack and fall apart. 2 years later, you can hardly find where any of it is, it just kept cracking up and flaking away to the point that a few good downpours started washing it away.

One of the businesses along the road had them do a parking lot with it. That didn't last a year before it started to crumble and fall apart. Then they dug it all up and had a paving company install new asphalt while it was hot and then used rollers on it.

When asphalt is installed originally, the oil is heated up to be super sticky. Then rolled while hot to compact and make it solid. When using old stuff, you cannot get it to compact because you have to add the right amount of oil, and whatever else is in that mix, and then heat it up to the right temperature.

Under no circumstance would I consider using it, no matter what it costs, even if it was free.

We have a local gravel company here that had some a few years ago.. I got a few tri axle loads to make some parking spots for my tractor and other equipment.. I wouldn't do it again. It never really compacted like I had hoped and it still spills rocks into my lawn today. Last year I picked up a couple loads of milling that I spread at the bottom of way asphalt driveway where it hits the gravel road... I put it down about 3-4" thick and sprayed it with used vegetable oil that I got from a friend ho owns restaurants.... that stuff packed and bonded like a highway.

 

[Peter 315]

We have a local gravel company here that had some a few years ago.. I got a few tri axle loads to make some parking spots for my tractor and other equipment.. I wouldn't do it again. It never really compacted like I had hoped and it still spills rocks into my lawn today. Last year I picked up a couple loads of milling that I spread at the bottom of way asphalt driveway where it hits the gravel road... I put it down about 3-4" thick and sprayed it with used vegetable oil that I got from a friend ho owns restaurants.... that stuff packed and bonded like a highway.

Used vegetable oil, No wonder you have mice problems.......:laughing:

 

[3Ts]

A neighbor many years ago worked at an asphalt plant and told me that the trucks dump bed that they use to deliver the asphalt for road projects are insulated and heated. If the asphalt is not hot on delivery, it will not compact and has to go back to the plant.

And as previously mentioned, it has to have the right portion of oil mixed with it.

 

[TractorGuy]

When I did our road with crushed concrete the county guy said they would not use ground asphalt. He said they use to use it but lack of performance and ecological concerns put a stop to it.

 

[Tomtint]

Used vegetable oil, No wonder you have mice problems.......:laughing:

I would probably be able to point to that as the problem with the mice if mr driveway wasn't 1200 feet long..and that may be a understatement

 

[old and tired]

...How do you compact yours?

Drive over it repeatedly to compact it, put gravel in the FEL (extra weight) and drive back and forth over it.

Potholes, you want to break them up and add extra gravel (or whatever you use) then drive over it a bunch to pack it down. You want the road higher so water doesn't collect in the path. I would buy a box blade instead of renting. I love used implements, only bought a new PHD since it was cheaper than a used one...

Learn how to back drag with your FEL in float to smooth out stone. Hydraulic Top-N-Tilt makes learning how to use a box blade a bit easier... Read and enjoy this thread: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/122762-beginners-guide-using-box-blade.html

 

[Engineer42]

Costs of materials varies by regions, and type of materials. We could do an example. Say you are going to use crushed concrete. Around here, it's about $10 a ton. 800lf x 12ft wide, and 4 inches thick, right? 800 x 12 / 9 x 4 / 17 = 250.98 ton. When compacted properly using a vibratory roller and applying water to aid in compaction you will lose a 1/4" per inch in depth, so you will end up with 3 inches compacted. You said 3 to 4 inches was what you wanted right?

So at $10 a ton, and we will round to 250 ton to make it easy, that's $2,500.00. That's not delivered. The trucking is where it gets expensive. Depending on distance, it's going to run around $12 to $17 a ton. Let's average that out to $15. So now we're at $25 a ton. 25 x 250 is $6,250.00.

800lf of roadway, 12' wide. Let's say they use a grader and roller. And you're gonna let JC wet it for you for compaction after the fact. Saves money. So a grader around here with a competent operator is between $100 to $125 per hour. Roller will be $50 to $60 per hour. Then there's mobilization. Depending again on distance, it may be $300 minimum. So we'll use that.

You don't describe conditions other than rough if I recall. So let's figure it cheap. 2.0 hrs to shape your existing road and roll the sub grade. We'll use the cheaper hourly rates, $100 & $50. 2 hours @ 100, and one @ 50, so $250.

So 250 ton, figure 22 ton per load, round that out to 11 loads. That's time. Unless the material is close, sitting and waiting for each load. So the grader knocks it down, and if he's competent, he's shaping while waiting for each load. They may only charge for roller run time, but doubt it. Best guess, you're looking at 10 hours for equipment, at 150 an hour. That's $1,500.00.

So $6,250.00+300.00+1,500.00=$8,050.00.

I could be wrong.

 

[Jlblake]

Costs of materials varies by regions, and type of materials. We could do an example. Say you are going to use crushed concrete. Around here, it's about $10 a ton. 800lf x 12ft wide, and 4 inches thick, right? 800 x 12 / 9 x 4 / 17 = 250.98 ton. When compacted properly using a vibratory roller and applying water to aid in compaction you will lose a 1/4" per inch in depth, so you will end up with 3 inches compacted. You said 3 to 4 inches was what you wanted right?

So at $10 a ton, and we will round to 250 ton to make it easy, that's $2,500.00. That's not delivered. The trucking is where it gets expensive. Depending on distance, it's going to run around $12 to $17 a ton. Let's average that out to $15. So now we're at $25 a ton. 25 x 250 is $6,250.00.

800lf of roadway, 12' wide. Let's say they use a grader and roller. And you're gonna let JC wet it for you for compaction after the fact. Saves money. So a grader around here with a competent operator is between $100 to $125 per hour. Roller will be $50 to $60 per hour. Then there's mobilization. Depending again on distance, it may be $300 minimum. So we'll use that.

You don't describe conditions other than rough if I recall. So let's figure it cheap. 2.0 hrs to shape your existing road and roll the sub grade. We'll use the cheaper hourly rates, $100 & $50. 2 hours @ 100, and one @ 50, so $250.

So 250 ton, figure 22 ton per load, round that out to 11 loads. That's time. Unless the material is close, sitting and waiting for each load. So the grader knocks it down, and if he's competent, he's shaping while waiting for each load. They may only charge for roller run time, but doubt it. Best guess, you're looking at 10 hours for equipment, at 150 an hour. That's $1,500.00.

So $6,250.00+300.00+1,500.00=$8,050.00.

I could be wrong.

If you're even close, I don't have much margin for error. If material and delivery is a close estimate @ $6,250, I'd be saving a little under $4k. That's a lot of money but if I screw up the road, the material is still there. In order to fix anything I screwed up, wouldn't I basically need to pay to move material back around and recompact it...essentially the $4k I saved?

 

[Jlblake]

Have you checked with your county to see if they have a private road program? Ours will bring out a road grader for$96 per hour.

I have not checked with the county. Thanks for the tip.

 

[TractorGuy]

I have not checked with the county. Thanks for the tip.

It makes a big difference if you have a road grader shape and smooth before you have the materials laid. That way you don't have thickness differences in holes.

I just had a short piece done but I think it's been a couple years and it's still holding. I've smoothed some washboard out a couple of times but haven't had to do that in a year.

 

[Egon]

The performance of reclaimed asphalt depends on how much original asphalting material is retained. The type of original asphalt will also make a difference. Cold climate asphalts like where Pillon lives are designed to be softer and more flexible allowing reclaimed asphalt retaining more asphalt. Hot climate asphalts are designed to be less flexible in the heat. The reclaimed product will have little binding property.

 

[Jlblake]

How long should a new / refurbished road last? If I spend $10k to have 800 feet of road rebuilt, how long should I expect it to be before I have to do it again?

Thank you all for the help! Priceless!