Root Grapple vs Rock Grapple Help

[StAngerSandman]

Ok, I'm 100% sure I need a grapple. Lots of things that I know I will need to do clearing brush, etc.

I am confused about the multiple types of grapples, and if I am overthinking this (likely am). I know for certain that a lot of the clearing that I need to do is brush, roots, etc. I also have a lot of large rocks (think 6-8" rocks) that I need to clear from parts of the property. I had considered buying a rock bucket to slide along and grab these, but they are not cheap.

That led me to looking at a grapple with a bottom that is closely spaced tines, like the rock grapple below.

However, it seems most people (particularly purchasing the EA grapples) seem to gravitate to the root grapple, where the tines are spaced out more. This seems great for saving weight, but won't accomplish some of what I was hoping to do with this grapple.

I guess this is a long winded way of saying: Is there really a reason (outside of extra weight) that the root grapple is better than the rock grapple bottom? If I get the rock type, would those closer tines have any issues tearing out roots? Seems like they would do the same thing the others do, just likely a little more load by being further together?

I have a Mahindra 2555 tractor, with 3122 lifting capacity to full height per tractordata. Haven't used it enough to test that, but that makes me think a little extra weight on the grapple itself isn't going to be a huge factor for me. 3rd function is already installed.

Any other thoughts? Really want to buy one this week and have it here soon, wife and I took advantage of the 50 degree day today to walk the property, and we are both excited to get going on this, and see why a grapple will make much shorter work of a lot of our initial clean up.

Thanks to all!

Sandman

 

[Cat_Driver]

I've had a few grapples so here is my .02.
Get the grapple that fits your tractor - BY WEIGHT. If you get a grapple too heavy then you can't lift a good size load. I bought a grapple based on durability and when I got it it was so heavy for my tractor I could hardly lift anything with it. I got gid of the tractor and went with a track loader and that solved that problem.

The next grapple I got was based on weight to my tractor and that now has caused a different set of problems. Because it's "light" it is bending out of shape in many ways. The tines are bending, the claw is bent etc. and I'm only lifting the brush. Very dissatisfies with this lightweight grapple.

Next advice I would give, get the tines as close as possible min 2" apart this way you can capture rocks to 2" and above along with any type of logs brush etc - but there again this will add weight sooooooo you need to decide what's more important to you. Lifting capacity or capture capacity or durability. Sadly they don't make a lightweight bulletproof close tine grapple.

Yes a root grapple will tear out roots as this is performed by the points on the grapple once they dig in you lift.

 

[oosik]

I looked a both - rock & root. There is no way on God's green earth that ANY type/size grapple will rip out the roots I have. All I have on the 80 acres is ancient Ponderosa pines. Besides - I have no desire to remove/eliminate any of them.

I use my grapple to move VERY large rocks and chunks of Ponderosa pine( die from bark beetle). I choose a very heavy duty rock grapple. It's the Land Price SGC 1560. It weighs 820#. No matter what I lift - it never gets more than 6" off the ground. This gives me around 3200# MAX lift capacity.

I don't think Land Pride makes this exact grapple any more.

Look at the load lift charts in your FEL OP manual. How high do you plan on lifting and how much weight. What is listed for your FEL under the general spec is, more or less, at an industry accepted height. The load lift charts will give you much more specific capacities. I will lift to greater heights but only with limbs collected from downed pines.

My rock grapple collects, grabs, lifts & transports limbs just fine. Not as good as a root grapple would but a root grapple would wither trying to dig & lift out large( size of an office desk) rocks. I occasionally use the grapple to rip out brush.

A caution here - no matter what you end up purchasing - modify your grill guard. Stobs, sticks, roots, etc will damage your grill, radiator and battery without added protection.

View attachment 640864View attachment 640865

 

[ovrszd]

Interesting topic. Much discussed.

I'd always choose a root grapple. I think it has more versatility.

 

[ns_in_tex]

Another option which might work for you with a root grapple. We added a 12" removeable steel plate to clean up roof shingle debris to top & bottom jaws. Since then we leave the bottom plate on 95% of the time and top plate off so we can still back rake. We find it is much more versatile with the one plate on. Only when we want to get underground roots, do we take it off (4 ea 1/2" bolts). With both on, we can handle large loads of dirt and with only one on we can handle smaller loads of dirt, as well as grade, clean off any area of small debris or use it as a small dozer.

We suggested this to EA years ago, but they have not seemed to run with it.

We built our root grapple more than 15 years ago. Our Kubota now has 3700 hours on it, with a large portion using this grapple. For the last 5 years, we make several trips per year volunteering with tornado disaster relief clean up, 1 to 3 weeks at a time.

Link to a thread we posted in 2004.
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/43470-neals-root-rake-grapple-1.html
Sorry, don't have pictures on this computer of the added 12" plates.

Another thing. It seems most people think a wider mouth opening is better. We agree, although ours has a 64" opening, so this is all I have experience with. Have not seen any this large. Don't know why the others don't come up with it.

 

[LouNY]

I have a rock bucket with a grapple.
It does work in soft well worked up dirt,
you have to shove it into the dirt and under the rock to grapple it,
then shake the dirt out, it the dirt is cloddy you end up carrying a lot of dirt.
To pick up a rock or log on top of the ground you have to curl your bucket down and past vertical
then start shut the grapple while working the curl otherwise the grapple teeth will not close on your load to carry it.
If I was buying another one I'd get one similar to what Oosik has or a similar root/brush style.

 

[kenmac]

I've had a few grapples so here is my .02.
Get the grapple that fits your tractor - BY WEIGHT. If you get a grapple too heavy then you can't lift a good size load. I bought a grapple based on durability and when I got it it was so heavy for my tractor I could hardly lift anything with it. I got gid of the tractor and went with a track loader and that solved that problem.

The next grapple I got was based on weight to my tractor and that now has caused a different set of problems. Because it's "light" it is bending out of shape in many ways. The tines are bending, the claw is bent etc. and I'm only lifting the brush. Very dissatisfies with this lightweight grapple.

Next advice I would give, get the tines as close as possible min 2" apart this way you can capture rocks to 2" and above along with any type of logs brush etc - but there again this will add weight sooooooo you need to decide what's more important to you. Lifting capacity or capture capacity or durability. Sadly they don't make a lightweight bulletproof close tine grapple.

Yes a root grapple will tear out roots as this is performed by the points on the grapple once they dig in you lift.

Exactly why I bought an EA. it's the lightest / strongest grapple you can buy.
I used mine to reclaim a 7 acre pasture. From digging out large rocks to back dragging pulling out roots and trees
The EA grapple handled everything I and my MX 5100 could throw at it.
Just for kicks, I also use it on my CX105 HP McCormick

 

[StAngerSandman]

I've had a few grapples so here is my .02.
Get the grapple that fits your tractor - BY WEIGHT. If you get a grapple too heavy then you can't lift a good size load. I bought a grapple based on durability and when I got it it was so heavy for my tractor I could hardly lift anything with it. I got gid of the tractor and went with a track loader and that solved that problem.

The next grapple I got was based on weight to my tractor and that now has caused a different set of problems. Because it's "light" it is bending out of shape in many ways. The tines are bending, the claw is bent etc. and I'm only lifting the brush. Very dissatisfies with this lightweight grapple.

Next advice I would give, get the tines as close as possible min 2" apart this way you can capture rocks to 2" and above along with any type of logs brush etc - but there again this will add weight sooooooo you need to decide what's more important to you. Lifting capacity or capture capacity or durability. Sadly they don't make a lightweight bulletproof close tine grapple.

Yes a root grapple will tear out roots as this is performed by the points on the grapple once they dig in you lift.

This is kind of what I have been thinking. Having the tines close together (I was thinking 4" apart?) would be ideal, so I can scoop up the bigger rocks, etc., but leave as much dirt as possible. These larger 12" plus openings don't help in any way with the rock scooping, so I would end up needing a separate rock bucket...

I'm not sure if this is a situation where I should buy a rock bucket and a grapple separately (more money and more stuff to store) or get a grapple that will do both. I'm pretty sure I'll be happy ether way once I get going...

 

[StAngerSandman]

I have a rock bucket with a grapple.
It does work in soft well worked up dirt,
you have to shove it into the dirt and under the rock to grapple it,
then shake the dirt out, it the dirt is cloddy you end up carrying a lot of dirt.
To pick up a rock or log on top of the ground you have to curl your bucket down and past vertical
then start shut the grapple while working the curl otherwise the grapple teeth will not close on your load to carry it.
If I was buying another one I'd get one similar to what Oosik has or a similar root/brush style.

Looking at your bucket, I saw a couple like that and thought that the teeth front wouldn't dig as well as as the multiple tines on the one I pictured above.... It seems like that might help some of the things you mention, but I do think having 20 or so tines vs 12 will be harder to dig through the ground and root structures, but not insanely more difficult. I'm strongly leaning toward the MTL RK5 right now, trying to finalize the decision.

 

[JohnnyMX]

Have a W.R. Long grapple that has longer straight lower base with two clamshells. That thing is great for grabbing debris and hauling building materials or things you want to stack up on the jaws. When doing my food plot I had a ton of rocks. I was able to get out the large rocks no issues but the "smaller" stuff fell through. I didn't realize at the time and my dealer never told me they had an option to provide twice the set of lower jaws. I think that would grab anything in the 4-6" range which my tiller would have appreciated. I was also trying to seperate my rocks out of the mix by shaking the grapple.

I may weld something up myself but that seemed like a nice option.

 

[TractorGuy]

In my opinion a root rake would have the short curved tines. Not either of the flat bottom designs you pictured. If you want to rip roots get a 3pt root rake. Tractor loaders are not made for the stresses required for root ripping.

I have the MTL RK5 rock/root grapple. Like any other implement it has a learning curve and pluses and minuses. I like the solid back design. It protects the grill of the tractor without adding anything to the grill guard and is also useful for some grading. I think it is the second picture you posted.

It is built very strong and weighs about 550 lbs for the 60" version. I don't think you would bend or break it with your tractor.

The close together tines will hold smaller debris and rocks but they also capture loose wet dirt. If the ground is wet it isn't that easy to shake the dirt out. I have to raise it up and roll it back and forth to try and leave the dirt behind. It doesn't always clear.

Like was mentioned above to pick up logs or piles it works best to roll it forward and come down from the top before clamping.

 

[oosik]

You find the tines are spaced too wide to pick it all up. A temporary/one time fix. Stretch heavy gauge chicken wire across the tines. Wire them down to the outside tine on each side. This will allow you to get even the fine stuff.

 

[jjp8182]

Just to offer a slightly different perspective: I've actually found that if I can push it over or drive over it the ripper shanks on a box blade tend to do a much better job of ripping out small trees, brush, roots and large rocks than my grapple does (even though it can do a pretty good job itself) .... the box blade also does a good job dragging vegetation into windrows-like lines for more effective pick up with the grapple.

As oosik noted there are ways to work around the tines being too widely spaced as a short-term/temporary solution, but with tightly spaced tines they will be adding extra weight forever more. So it might be worth considering what you'll need/want the grapple for long term as well as for the near term. Also on that note it might be worth checking to see if any equipment rental places in your area have a rock bucket that could be rented at a reasonable rate - may allow you to have both a grapple and a rock bucket to use without having to buy both (or buy a grapple for the near term that is a compromise for the long term).

Of course depending on what sort of brush removal you need to do, something like a post-puller or Danuser Intimdator might be of use. Those kinds of grapples are great for ripping out individual trees/bushes/rocks, but not so great for grabbing piles of material (I currently have both the L-bottom kind and an Intimidator and find the two types compliment each other rather well -- especially when combined with a box blade).

Anyway just a couple thoughts, ultimately you're the one making the purchase and will have a better idea of the tasks you'll need to accomplish.

 

[StAngerSandman]

I have enough of a rock problem in enough places that renting a rock bucket probably isn't a great solution. Feel like I'm going to be fighting this issue often enough that I need something permanent, and available when I have the time... I priced out rock buckets, and they seem to start at $650 MINIMUM, and for the size I would want, probably $750. Given that, I think buying the RK5 for not much more, and getting the grapple functionality ALONG with the rock bucket for a minimal increase in costs seems to make sense... If I decide for some reason I really need a root grapple because this doesn't do the jobs I need, I will deal with that later. For now, I think getting the rock issue solved and having some type of grapple will take me light years from where I am now.

Thanks to everyone for their input!

Sandman

 

[oosik]

View attachment 641220View attachment 641221 All the land out here started as Government issued 360 acre homesteads. The homestead adjoining my North property cleared many, many fields. There are literally miles of these low rock walls. They are six to eight feet wide and about three feet high. I'm told the neighbor had, at least, two rock sleds and two mule teams. It was also recorded that he had five sons. Fairly obvious what these sons did in their youth.

 

[TractorGuy]

I have enough of a rock problem in enough places that renting a rock bucket probably isn't a great solution. Feel like I'm going to be fighting this issue often enough that I need something permanent, and available when I have the time... I priced out rock buckets, and they seem to start at $650 MINIMUM, and for the size I would want, probably $750. Given that, I think buying the RK5 for not much more, and getting the grapple functionality ALONG with the rock bucket for a minimal increase in costs seems to make sense... If I decide for some reason I really need a root grapple because this doesn't do the jobs I need, I will deal with that later. For now, I think getting the rock issue solved and having some type of grapple will take me light years from where I am now.

Thanks to everyone for their input!

Sandman

At one point I considered buying their smaller single lid grapple and welding or bolting some 3/4" expanded metal to it for dirt sifting. I would have likely just ended up with a glob of dirt I couldn't sift though. I re-floored a utility trailer with expanded metal and have used it to sift somewhat. I just dump a load on top then rake it back and forth using a garden rake upside down. The soil underneath is nice and fine.

Even the spacing on the RK5 lets the smaller debris get through. Especially when you try to shake the dirt out. Just a reminder that none are a perfect solution. I think the spacing is 5" so your 4" rocks are gonna fall through if you try to sift the dirt out it collects.

You may find you need a portable sifter which is something I want to build someday. Built ones are out of my budget for something that is more of a want than need. In my case I am not dealing with rocks so my escaped debris will eventually rot.

 

[WoodDuck]

Soil type in your area would weigh in on my decision of tine spacing also. In sandy or loose soil that sifted more readily, narrower tines would catch more rock and debris, while still separating the soil easily. In clay or hard-packed soil, I'd rather have wider spacing myself. Scoop up a load of wet clay and rocks with narrow tines, and you can shake your machine to pieces for several minutes and still have a bunch of dirt with the rocks in the grapple/bucket. (Obviously soil moisture content of the work site makes a huge difference.) I would speak with other owner/operators in your geographic area, and see what they think works best for most conditions. Doing my research and learning from other peoples' mistakes has saved me a lot of $$$ over the years. Getting what you need the first time is usually cheaper in the long run than buying/selling/swapping your way into the correct implement. Best of luck!

 

[oosik]

Good advice - WoodDuck. My grapple has 6" tine spacing. I move soil - fully open jaws - straight down on the ground - apply down force and close grapple. I come up with a VERY large wad of soil and take it wherever needed. I seldom lose anything - ie, fallout thru the tines. I always have to hose out the soil between the tines when I've completed the job. My soil has a high organic content.

If you can find others with grapples - ask why they chose the type they have.

 

[rScotty]

I have enough of a rock problem in enough places that renting a rock bucket probably isn't a great solution. Feel like I'm going to be fighting this issue often enough that I need something permanent, and available when I have the time... I priced out rock buckets, and they seem to start at $650 MINIMUM, and for the size I would want, probably $750. Given that, I think buying the RK5 for not much more, and getting the grapple functionality ALONG with the rock bucket for a minimal increase in costs seems to make sense... If I decide for some reason I really need a root grapple because this doesn't do the jobs I need, I will deal with that later. For now, I think getting the rock issue solved and having some type of grapple will take me light years from where I am now.

Thanks to everyone for their input!

Sandman

Sandman, it sounds like you have pretty much talked yourself into a grapple, but keep in mind that there are other solutions.
I found the same thing that jjp8182 did, that I got the best results by using the 4 or 5 ripper shanks of the box blade to tear up the ground and expose the rocks and roots. Then followed with a regular rock bucket to pick them up while leaving the dirt behind.

In doing that work, I can't think of any time when a grapple would have been an advantage. It doesn't have the power of pulling a box blade, nor does the grapple have the narrow tines of a rock bucket.
BTW, it's usually better not to go with a real wide bucket. Even for narrow ones, a good rock bucket can cost upwards to $1500/1800 in the width you are thinking. Bradco and Hough make some of the better more expensive good ones with round tines. There are less expensive rock buckets that use narrow flat tines and cost much less and don't work as well. We have one of each and have used them for year. Here's a photo showing us doing some work with one of the less expensive buckets - I think it cost $700.

We've also got the big Bradco bucket with round tines, which has 1" less spacing between tines. Believe it or not, that 1" makes a noticible difference, as does the extra foot that the front of the bucket sticks out. That's because you use a rock bucket by picking up rocks and roots on the front one foot of the bucket and then tilting the bucket up so that the rocks roll to the back and the dirt falls thought. Once you get enough rocks in the bucket that new rocks can't roll back then the bucket is essentially full. Like the one in the photo. It's full. You rarely get it that full & that's why I took the picture. Bouncing the bucket is how you get it that full, but it's hard on the loader & bucket.

BTW, I'd always rent before buying. Otherwise you are just guessing. Some rental yards will deduct the rental fee if you end up buying the implement. Agree on a price first though.
Luck,
rScotty

 

[TomIre]

In my opinion a root rake would have the short curved tines. Not either of the flat bottom designs you pictured. If you want to rip roots get a 3pt root rake. Tractor loaders are not made for the stresses required for root ripping.

I have the MTL RK5 rock/root grapple. Like any other implement it has a learning curve and pluses and minuses. I like the solid back design. It protects the grill of the tractor without adding anything to the grill guard and is also useful for some grading. I think it is the second picture you posted.

The close together tines will hold smaller debris and rocks but they also capture loose wet dirt. If the ground is wet it isn't that easy to shake the dirt out. I have to raise it up and roll it back and forth to try and leave the dirt behind. It doesn't always clear.

Like was mentioned above to pick up logs or piles it works best to roll it forward and come down from the top before clamping.

Here's my question on the solid back design. Does it allow you to see a rock OK and can you then pick an individual rock? Or, are you running the tines along the ground and picking up everything in front of you?
Ideally, I would like to pick up an individual rock and place it pretty accurately where I want it. That's probably the primary use I have and second would be picking up brush piles, limbs and logs. A distant third would be clearing brush but I have a tooth bar for my bucket for that.