Runnign 100 amp service to garage

[whitedogone]

All this talk of POWER COMPANY OWNED EQUIPMENT. :laughing:

 

[jonnysteals]

I work for a Utility Co. in NY, dealing with customers on this very issue. Try checking your Utilitiy's website for information on "service installations". Most have an online book for "General Specifications", which for my company, would answer almost all your questions listed here. If they don't, contact their New Business Dept., between that and the local electrical inspector, you'll have your answers. Be aware that every utility has their own set of rules, for instance, my Co. won't connect you if you used the 2.5" conduit, you would need 2" or 3" instead. But the next Company over insists on 2.5" conduit & won't allow 2" on their system. The Utility has the right, per NEC code, to demand things above & beyond the code books, so check with them before you buy anything.

This was the best advice. i found my local electric company new service 100 page document and it was very informative. It was actually written so everyone can understand it.

If it were my decision, I would not install cable with inadequate insulation to be utilized in conduit with the size main breaker that you are using. So since you have said a 100 amp breaker will be installed, and that you have motor loads that can be considerable at start up (air compressor), I would buy cable that could handle the 100 amp load plus a small cushion. Looking at my calculator, that means #1 or 1/0 in aluminum with at least 75 degree centigrade insulation, (XHHW, THWN-2 or similar spec) for the current carrying legs. I suspect that it can be bought at the same price or maybe less than the direct burial cable and is better suited to this application.

You can read about cable size, insulation, etc. at Product Catalog in the aluminum building wire section.

So this would mean about 300 feet of this cable and 100 feet of #4 for the ground, assuming that the meter is at the pole. For single phase residential service, the ground bus is normally established at the meter box and disconnect.

Can anyone explain what this is; I dont understand the differences. I understand they are used to derate the wire but I am confused still. I believe this system is used for rating the allowable amps based on the wires actual temperature? Whis is the important one to look at 60,75,or 90C.
Allowable ampacities shown are for general use as specified by the National Electrical Code, 2008 Edition, section 310.15.
60°C - When terminated to equipment for circuits rated 100 amperes or less or marked for 14 through 1 AWG conductors.
75°C - When terminated to equipment for circuits rated over 100 amperes or marked for conductors larger than 1 AWG.
90°C - Wet or dry locations. For ampacity derating purposes.



I will have to call around to my elctrical supply house. I didn't see any of it at home depot website. I plan on going to an electric supply house and telling them my plans and having them tell me what I need. I do not want to buy something that I can't use/isn't approved.


Here is what I found from reading the electrical company handbook.
Apparently I can not go to home depot and buy the standard meter socket. The power company has an approved meter socket list and the meter needs to have a specific sticker on it as well. The meter box has to be located between 3-6 feet off of the ground. For anything up to 200 amps you must use a 200 amp meter socket. Nothing smaller than 200 amps will be activated. The ground wire can not come in threw the meter box. The only meter they will connect is a ringed meter. The minumim size service they will connect is 100amps and the minimun size wire is #2 aluminum.

Here are the apprived meter box's
The approved meter socket catalog numbers are shown below:
RESIDENTIAL (SINGLE POSITION)
200 Ampere (to be used with 100, 150, or 200 Ampere disconnects)
Single Position, Single Phase, 200 Amp., Overhead
DURHAM CUTLER HAMMER MIDWEST SQ-D
UHI-RS213B-CV UHI-RS213B-CVCH UHI-RS213B-CVMEP UHI-RS213B-CVSQD
MILBANK SIEMENS/LANDIS&GYR
U7040-RL-KK-DPL UAT417-XPCV
Single Position, Single Phase, 200 Amp, Side Wired, Underground
DURHAM CUTLER HAMMER MIDWEST SQ-D
UHI-RS223A-CV UHI-RS223A-CVCH UHI-RS223A-CVMEP UHI-RS223A-CVSQD
MILBANK SIEMENS/LANDIS&GYR
U1980-O-KK-DPL UAS877-PPCV
Single Position, Single Phase 320 Amp, Overhead/Underground Delmarva Power Only

Here is what the power campany recomends for 150 amps(lowest they have; they dont list 100 amp) single phase electric. 2 2/0 wires 1 #1 neutral in 2 inch conduit. There is nothing mentioned about the ground size so I would stick with the #1 for ground as well. The conduit must be 24 inch below ground and the 90 degree turns must be 9.5 inch radius. WHere the conduit runs down the pole and building it must run straight down 12 inches before it begins to turn.


My question is how can you run the ground then. My thoughts is that the conduit runs right into the bottom of the meter socket. The two hots and neutral get hooked to to the top of the meter socket(neutral in middle). My load one's get hooked up to the bottom to the appropriate slots. THen from the meter box the wires will run into my breaker box. I am assuming that they dont run back thre the line conduit to my breaker box but threw the back of the meter socket/out a differnt hole somewhere?Do the grounds connect to the two ground rods and run up the same conduit that leads to my meter socket but exit out a t fitting before the meter socket?

I really appreciate your guys help on this. I know I am asking a ton of stupid questions but I am trying to learn this stuff as I go along and want to make sure its safe. I learned alot about how this worked and is no longer a black magic. My only real questions are how the grounds run into the building and how do the load wires run from the meter to the breaker box.

Obviously all of this will be permitted and inspected before my lectric company will power any of it.

 

[jonnysteals]

All this talk of POWER COMPANY OWNED EQUIPMENT. :laughing:

They power company will not own the lines they will be customer owned by me. The own the main grid lines on the telephone pole but thats it. THey only thing they do is connect the line feeds to the meter socket and then connect my lines to the grid. THen they pop in a ringed meter and call it a day. I don't follow/understand what your statement means. Care to explain?

 

[whitedogone]

They power company will not own the lines they will be customer owned by me. The own the main grid lines on the telephone pole but thats it. THey only thing they do is connect the line feeds to the meter socket and then connect my lines to the grid. Then they pop in a ringed meter and call it a day. I don't follow/understand what your statement means. Care to explain?

So, at what point does the power co. equipment end and your equipment end? If the power co had a pole set 1/2 mile down the road and I told them I was going to run underground from that point up the road to my meter base would that be fine with them? Would that 1/2 mile of underground be yours or theirs? It's the same thing you're saying. You must have a very strange power co if they allow you to run their laterals. I've never run into a poco anywhere in the country that would allow that.

 

[MarkV]

So, at what point does the power co. equipment end and your equipment end? If the power co had a pole set 1/2 mile down the road and I told them I was going to run underground from that point up the road to my meter base would that be fine with them? Would that 1/2 mile of underground be yours or theirs? It's the same thing you're saying. You must have a very strange power co if they allow you to run their laterals. I've never run into a poco anywhere in the country that would allow that.

Yep that is the way it is here. The power company's responsibility stops at the meter. I went buried and they provided the cable and inspected before the backfilling. Make sure you understand were their system stops because they will have rules you can not avoid.

MarkV

 

[hr3]

They power company will not own the lines they will be customer owned by me. The own the main grid lines on the telephone pole but thats it. THey only thing they do is connect the line feeds to the meter socket and then connect my lines to the grid. THen they pop in a ringed meter and call it a day. I don't follow/understand what your statement means. Care to explain?

Jonny,, Slow down and only take about 2% of what you are reading applies to what you are doing.. Hook up with a " REAL" electrician here or where you are to get the answers to your questions..

Your on the right track !!

 

[jonnysteals]

I base that statement on my house I live in. It was built in the 90s and on the conduit on the telephone pole it says customer owns utilities with a orange sticker. Hopefully I can get this all worked out so I can get electric out to my garage. I'm sick of extension cords.

 

[Qapla]

I'm not going to try and give you advice since I am not an electrician. However, I do have a few questions to clarify what you are talking about.

You mention a "pole", a "meter can/box", a "building/garage/shop" and a "breaker panel".

Is the meter on the pole or on the building? This makes quite a difference in what is needed on the pole. If the run is continuous from the weather-head, down the pole, into the ground and to a meter on the building, seems like only three wires would be needed at that point since the "ground" is picked up at the meter and the ground rod(s).

If the service runs from the weather-head to the meter on the pole and then to a breaker panel in the building, the top side of the meter from the weather-head to the meter would be three wires. There would be ground rod(s) at the base of the pole connecting to the meter according to your power company/county/city codes/requirements. Then 4 wires would run from the bottom of the meter to the breaker panel.

The "bonding" of the ground and neutral buses in the breaker panel and any additional ground rod(s) at the building would be according to your local codes/requirements.

At least that is the way it seems to me.

I do know that here, if you are the property owner and it is for "private use" (not commercial) you can pull the permit and do the wiring yourself - as long as it is done to code and passes inspection. This is not here-say or conjecture - I know because I have done my own wiring and it all passed inspection.

 

[jonnysteals]

Crap you are right. This is a completely new service. I had originally based my plan off my brothers garage the he has attached to his electrical panel with a subpanel in his garage.

The telephone pole is 50 feet from my garage. The electric company wants the meter on my garage. I only need two hots and a neutral in between the pole and garage. The breaker box will be located directly behind the meter on my garage but just located inside my garage. I am sorry for the confusion. I am brainstorming my electric service and had to change modify my plan based on suggestions I received here.

I may have to look at pulling the permit myself. A friend of mine has been an electrician for 5 years but is not certified. Hopefully this week an real electrician will call me back with a reasonable quote so he can do it all and I won't have to worry about it. I appreciate all the help guys.

I'm not going to try and give you advice since I am not an electrician. However, I do have a few questions to clarify what you are talking about.

You mention a "pole", a "meter can/box", a "building/garage/shop" and a "breaker panel".

Is the meter on the pole or on the building? This makes quite a difference in what is needed on the pole. If the run is continuous from the weather-head, down the pole, into the ground and to a meter on the building, seems like only three wires would be needed at that point since the "ground" is picked up at the meter and the ground rod(s).

If the service runs from the weather-head to the meter on the pole and then to a breaker panel in the building, the top side of the meter from the weather-head to the meter would be three wires. There would be ground rod(s) at the base of the pole connecting to the meter according to your power company/county/city codes/requirements. Then 4 wires would run from the bottom of the meter to the breaker panel.

The "bonding" of the ground and neutral buses in the breaker panel and any additional ground rod(s) at the building would be according to your local codes/requirements.

At least that is the way it seems to me.

I do know that here, if you are the property owner and it is for "private use" (not commercial) you can pull the permit and do the wiring yourself - as long as it is done to code and passes inspection. This is not here-say or conjecture - I know because I have done my own wiring and it all passed inspection.

 

[ray66v]

Copper service entrance is best, and it's all I have used. But, since aluminum, is allowed, and it is less costly, nothing wrong with using it for this purpose.

Around here in Ohio, I would not ever bury any wire, (except low voltage), without conduit. But, soil in you area, has a lot to do with the degree of need for the extra protection.

Aluminum service entrance wire has a bad rap mostly from failures related to direct burial. i.e. rocks piercing the jacket due to frost. This problem is easy to avoid, use conduit.

I have a nice big roll of 3/0 copper for sale, if you want to go 200 amps. :thumbsup: