SCUT's with backhoes

[blacktruck]

While I appreciate all the replies, none of them answer my question. Of course I understand that a BH of that size is gong to have a fairly limited ability compared to a full sized unit, or even a small excavator. I also understand that this size tractor is more intended for hobbyists or home owners. But why does someone who needs that small of a tractor also need a backhoe, where the person who needs or wants a larger tractor, into the CUT range, not need a backhoe as much? I doubt your average CUT buyer also buys a dedicated backhoe, or excavator. Maybe once you get into a full sized or Utility tractor you more likely have multiple pieces of equipment and that equipment becomes more specialized but at that point you are more than likely also using that equipment as a source of income either directly ( landscaping, site work, etc.) or indirectly ( farming etc)

How much backhoe work does your average homeowner do?

My wife and I own 2 properties. Our primary residence which is about an acre in the Suburbs, and 4 acres of rural property with a Barn and a small apartment we use for weekends etc. It has a small orchard, and a fairly large creek running through it and I have no use for a backhoe. Unless I am missing out on the utility of one. I can see and have used a front loader for multiple things over the years and I am always amazed at the new things people come up with to use them, but a backhoe seems to me to be much more limited to digging, and some lifting chores.

What am I missing about so many SCUT's being sold with a BH?

Here are my thoughts on your question sir.
I can only base this from my own experiences so that is my perspective. I was raised around farm equipment and spent many years operating everything on the farm. My life took me away from the farm many years ago and I worked in several places in the US and around the world and did okay. I bought mine because I own several acres of ground most of which is rented out but I keep a few acres for me and have two houses on this property. I have only used my BH infrequently. I have used it to dig some water and electrical lines in. I have moved some concrete and dug some footings. I could have easily rented something to use for these tasks but I prefer to work on my schedule. The sum total of this is that I wanted one and could afford it. Probably not as many younger folks are in that position. I do work with mine but could also get the same work accomplished by hiring the jobs to be done or renting equipment. One of the guys responded by calling them the Swiss Army knives if the tractor world. If you are going to use it commercially, you might want to get a small track hoe or some other piece of equipment but for around the smaller homestead, there is probably not a better piece of equipment.

 

[Diggin It]

A BH on a SCUT is a glorified hand shovel.

As a counterpoint, check out the Youtube channel ...

It's a cool looking toy that's small enough to fit in a single car garage. They rarely get used enough to lose paint on the bucket. And they are too small and light to do any real work.

Basically SCUTS are powered wheel barrows with a powered hand shovel on the back.

Disagree. And I don't need to refer to a Veedeeot, nor will it fit in a standard garage.

My farmer neighbors with their BIG JDs and Cases sure appreciate that I have one too.

 

[snymat68]

It's the same reason why people buy huge 4WD SUV's and 4 door pickup trucks with a 4 foot bed. Then they drive the big gas guzzler around the suburbs, 98% of the time with no load or cargo and 1 person in the vehicle.

They want to feel like they have something special for those "just in case" moments where they can drive to the garden centre and pick up a bag of peat moss or chauffeur 40 screaming kids in the back seats to soccer practice. Or back into peoples cars in shopping mall parking lots with their rusty ball hitches hanging out 3 feet past the bumper because it's too rusty to take out of the receiver hitch.



It's a cool looking toy that's small enough to fit in a single car garage. They rarely get used enough to lose paint on the bucket. And they are too small and light to do any real work. Then people write in to the forums complaining how they can't get their 1,500lb machine to lift 4,000lbs and asking how to bump up the hydraulic circuit pressures to increase lift capacity.

Basically SCUTS are powered wheel barrows with a powered hand shovel on the back.

Tell us how you really feel.

 

[Mosby2015]

My intention for this thread was not to put down or ridicule anyone. It was simply a question based on my own observation that the dealers, at least those local to me, seem to stock most of their SCUT units with BH's installed and rarely if ever are their stock unit CUT's or utility tractors stocked with BH's.

I have no doubt there are plenty of SCUT BH owners who have done major projects with their tractors.

Maybe in other parts of the country tractor dealers stock their lot differently than they do where I live, Suburban Maryland, and Rural Virginia.

 

[GeneV]

My intention for this thread was not to put down or ridicule anyone...

No worries Mosby, threads here sometimes take on a life of their own.

 

[GeneV]

It's the same reason why people buy huge 4WD SUV's and 4 door pickup trucks with a 4 foot bed. Then they drive the big gas guzzler around the suburbs, 98% of the time with no load or cargo and 1 person in the vehicle.

They want to feel like they have something special for those "just in case" moments where they can drive to the garden centre and pick up a bag of peat moss or chauffeur 40 screaming kids in the back seats to soccer practice. Or back into peoples cars in shopping mall parking lots with their rusty ball hitches hanging out 3 feet past the bumper because it's too rusty to take out of the receiver hitch.



It's a cool looking toy that's small enough to fit in a single car garage. They rarely get used enough to lose paint on the bucket. And they are too small and light to do any real work. Then people write in to the forums complaining how they can't get their 1,500lb machine to lift 4,000lbs and asking how to bump up the hydraulic circuit pressures to increase lift capacity.

Basically SCUTS are powered wheel barrows with a powered hand shovel on the back.

When I was researching tractors, I watched a bunch of youtube vids of scut loaders and tlb's...comparing models, watching reviews, what people were using them for, etc. I have to admit, some of those tractor owners, omg, why do you have this?!! I don't wanna belittle anybody, but there's some guys on youtube doing literally nothing with their tractors other than polishing them and collecting implements for them. Quick attach plow with hydro angle to plow a tiny driveway. Really?!! Tiller and plow and grapple and this and that, and...his property is a postage stamp in a cookie cutter burb. I mean, no offense, but that's straight up midlife crisis stuff right there. Not that there's anything wrong with that, do yo thing, pimp! I don't judge honest, if it makes you happy, whatever.

Me personally, I was looking for a 4wd tractor with loader for my hilly 2.6 acres because using a wheelbarrow was getting old and I ain't getting any younger. I found a good deal on one that came with the backhoe, so I was like what the heck...even if I park the hoe in the shed most of the year, occasional use justifies an extra $2K over the span of how long I'll have this tractor. I could tell you, I've only had this thing a couple months and that loader AND backhoe has seen some action and saved me a metric shyte-ton of time over doing it by hand. To call these merely over-glorified wheel barrows and hand shovels is like calling full-size loaders and excavators over-glorified scut tlb's.

In conclusion, yes, some people purchase these little beasts for the cool factor. Others use the **** outta them.

 

[blacktruck]

When I was researching tractors, I watched a bunch of youtube vids of scut loaders and tlb's...comparing models, watching reviews, what people were using them for, etc. I have to admit, some of those tractor owners, omg, why do you have this?!! I don't wanna belittle anybody, but there's some guys on youtube doing literally nothing with their tractors other than polishing them and collecting implements for them. Quick attach plow with hydro angle to plow a tiny driveway. Really?!! Tiller and plow and grapple and this and that, and...his property is a postage stamp in a cookie cutter burb. I mean, no offense, but that's straight up midlife crisis stuff right there. Not that there's anything wrong with that, do yo thing, pimp! I don't judge honest, if it makes you happy, whatever.

Me personally, I was looking for a 4wd tractor with loader for my hilly 2.6 acres because using a wheelbarrow was getting old and I ain't getting any younger. I found a good deal on one that came with the backhoe, so I was like what the heck...even if I park the hoe in the shed most of the year, occasional use justifies an extra $2K over the span of how long I'll have this tractor. I could tell you, I've only had this thing a couple months and that loader AND backhoe has seen some action and saved me a metric shyte-ton of time over doing it by hand. To call these merely over-glorified wheel barrows and hand shovels is like calling full-size loaders and excavators over-glorified scut tlb's.

In conclusion, yes, some people purchase these little beasts for the cool factor. Others use the **** outta them.

Interesting stuff. Now that I am shopping again for one, I also was checking out the videos being posted and noticed the same thing. There are a few guys that have no purpose of having the tractors other than finding tasks they can make a video about. Whuda ever thunk that making a video about the things we do could have cash value? Random thought here but the comedy skit done a few years ago by Bill Engvall and Jeff Foxworthy comes to mind. The one where they are discussing their decks. Same principle still applies in many aspects of real life to some people. Substitute tractor and backhoe for decks and you get the idea.

I use my backhoe on occasion, not regularly but it is there for me when needed. I probably could not make an argument for having it based on actual dollars but after ten years with one, I would not trade for a tractor without one. If the question were why does the dealers seem to have so many in stock, that is based on the demographics of the area. If the dealer has them, it is driven by a market analysis that says to get some in stock. The actual use of the hoe is of no concern to the dealer. They want to sell what we will buy and for many it is a tractor with loader and a backhoe.

 

[Diggin It]

When I was researching tractors, I watched a bunch of youtube vids of scut loaders and tlb's...comparing models, watching reviews, what people were using them for, etc. I have to admit, some of those tractor owners, omg, why do you have this?!! I don't wanna belittle anybody, but there's some guys on youtube doing literally nothing with their tractors other than polishing them and collecting implements for them.

Interesting stuff. Now that I am shopping again for one, I also was checking out the videos being posted and noticed the same thing. There are a few guys that have no purpose of having the tractors other than finding tasks they can make a video about. Whuda ever thunk that making a video about the things we do could have cash value?

One of the main reasons I avoid them. I have no interest in adding to their clickbanks.

Another is that I just don't trust the site integrity, period.

 

[Code54]

Basically SCUTS are powered wheel barrows with a powered hand shovel on the back.

Have to disagree. I have a Kubota mini ex and a BX25 (comes with the backhoe). I did a job recently at some townhomes and took the BX25. It was slower than the mini digging 3 foot deep trenches BUT did ZERO damage to the lawns I crossed and gave me the front loader so move material. Perfect tool for the job. I sometime use the BX around our house so I don't damage the lawn, can drive on cement without leaving "tracks", or can sneak it into a flower garden without damage. Is the mini a way better digger - sure it is but there are times where a small tractor is the perfect tool for the job.

 

[Oldoak]

I was thinking of gettin a backhoe for my CUT after I had it for a few years, even had dealer order, but then I discovered for just a little more I could buy a 2 year old mini-excavator with more capability and versatility.

It pays to investigate before jumping in. You certainly could do a lot more with an excavator than with a backhoe mounted on a CUT. But keep in mind. Now you have a second machine to maintain and the time and expense that goes with it.

I would say you got a good deal, a two year old mini excavator for just a little more than the prices of a new backhoe for your CUT.

 

[butasha]

Kinda new here and dont really know what size tractor constitutes a CUT but our smallest tractor is a JD 3038 that we keep a backhoe on. The small size of the JD 3038 lets us work pens and tight locations. I am not as young as I once was and my shoulders do not like digging with a shovel. I agree that a small excavator is more agile but our main place is a couple miles across and we can just hop on the JD 3038 and be anyplace on the ranch in a few minutes. The thought of crawling across to the back pens on an excavator is not my idea of fun. The JD 3038 wont win a race but it will sure get to the other side much faster than the excavator. Agreed once the excavator gets there it will work circles around my JD3038 backhoe digging holes in the ground. But then when the digging is done the excavator is basically done and the JD3038 still has work to do.

 

[mikester]

Have to disagree. I have a Kubota mini ex and a BX25 (comes with the backhoe). I did a job recently at some townhomes and took the BX25. It was slower than the mini digging 3 foot deep trenches BUT did ZERO damage to the lawns I crossed and gave me the front loader so move material. Perfect tool for the job. I sometime use the BX around our house so I don't damage the lawn, can drive on cement without leaving "tracks", or can sneak it into a flower garden without damage. Is the mini a way better digger - sure it is but there are times where a small tractor is the perfect tool for the job.

My electrician neighbor has a SCUT TLB and uses it to get into tight spaces for burying residential cables. He only goes down two feet so for him it makes sense to have a general purpose machine that he can easily trailer to a work site behind his panel van and mow his lawn with after.

Add a thumb on the BH and its great for moving small rocks or pulling small shrubs and trees in the garden. Put on a set of forks and try unloading a 500-1000lb tree in a 36 inch root ball from the back of a pickup? Pucker up and keep it in 4WD.

For the average homeowner a SCUT TLB is still a powered wheelbarrow and a cool toy to have in the garage. If it floats your boat, all the power too you. I like having toys too!

 

[billwleod]

Tractor Dell and cdaigle430, both of you have very good points.

And maybe at this point I am beating a dead horse, so I will leave this alone after this.

But my question is why do the people who buy the smallest tractors need a backhoe, where the people who buy the next size up don't seem to need them, at least not as much, based on the way the average SCUT v. CUT is equipped on the dealer lot? So if I decide I only need an 18-20hp SCUT I need a back hoe, but if I buy a 20 or 22hp CUT all of the sudden I no longer need a backhoe? Even though based on weight, capacity etc, more than likely the 20hp CUT would be more capable than the 20hp SCUT. So why don't more people purchase a backhoe when they buy the larger sized tractors?

Seems like no real reason, maybe just a way to make the SCUT's more profit for the dealer? Or maybe a way the tractor manufacturers' make their baby tractors look more like big boy tractors? So they are more appealing to buyers who think they need or want more tractor than they actually do?

Thanks again for everyone who took the time to respond.

When I was shopping for a CUT I had a dealer tell me they did not put a backhoe on them prior to selling them as once installed, they had to be sold with the tractor and could not be removed.

My backhoe increased the cost of my tractor by over 30%. And as others have pointed out, many CUT are sold to handle 3 point implements as they need a bigger and heavier tractor.

I could have bought two TLB SCUT for the cost of my CUT with loader and backhoe.

My backhoe gets used periodically and is very appreciated when I need it. If I had to pay someone for the work I have used it for, it has paid for itself. I could have planned and rented a mini excavator for the tasks and still have some money in my pocket up to this point. Down the road will tell.

The backhoe is factory and comes off in less than 10 minutes as I switch over to a chipper all the time.

The loader gets used more than anything.

My regrets are that I should have bought a bigger tractor and loader that would have handled a ton on the forks, and bought the tractor 20 years earlier.

I have hand dug trenches and stumps in my earlier years an moved a lot of dirt and wood with a wheel barrow and trailer.

Well worth the investment for me.

 

[searcyfarms]

reason...............price it a lot of it, adaptability/weight is another, biggest reason, by the time someone gets a scut and moves up to a cut they realize how little use/value the scut with a b/h on it really provides and a cut wont be much better - i wouldnt waste the money personally i would just rent a mini excavator for the few occassions someone really needs to use one you will be far money ahead and they work so much better than the little gadgets on a scut/cut

 

[dougtrr2]

I bought my Kubota BX24 with a backhoe and loader. I don't use the backhoe a lot, but the times I have it has been well worth it. I bought it in one sense because "it looks so good on the back". But mainly because it wasn't something you can go back five years later and add. I think maybe the reason they are not purchased for the larger tractors is economics/justification. I bought my backhoe as a "toy", (no real need for it, just wanted it). People buying larger tractors may have to do more of an economic justification for the additional purchase.

Doug in SW IA

 

[blacktruck]

reason...............price it a lot of it, adaptability/weight is another, biggest reason, by the time someone gets a scut and moves up to a cut they realize how little use/value the scut with a b/h on it really provides and a cut wont be much better - i wouldnt waste the money personally i would just rent a mini excavator for the few occassions someone really needs to use one you will be far money ahead and they work so much better than the little gadgets on a scut/cut

I appreciate your fiscal concerns and your points for not having one. I can't speak for others but I have no plans to ever move up to a CUT. The work I have done with mine has went well and I was satisfied with the results. If the scope of my work is beyond the abilities of me or the tractor then I would hire it done. For me having my money tied up in a piece of equipment I use infrequently is okay. I use it on my schedule and for whatever duration I feel is enough to do the task. It's worth it to me.

I bought my Kubota BX24 with a backhoe and loader. I don't use the backhoe a lot, but the times I have it has been well worth it. I bought it in one sense because "it looks so good on the back". But mainly because it wasn't something you can go back five years later and add. I think maybe the reason they are not purchased for the larger tractors is economics/justification. I bought my backhoe as a "toy", (no real need for it, just wanted it). People buying larger tractors may have to do more of an economic justification for the additional purchase.

Doug in SW IA

I bought mine with the same mindset. When I was buying my tractor, I asked if I could get the BH at a later date. Not happening that way so if I thought I wanted one, the time was right then to make the choice and then figure out what to do with it. After ten years of having it, I have no regrets of my purchase and my next one will also have one (I'm in the market for a new one again). I have used mine several times for different tasks that might have been accomplished without one but as I get older, I am not looking to build anything big or do large tasks, just work around the homestead that keeps me busy. Is it a toy? Could be. I could get by without one but choose not to. I enjoy running the tractor and loader and backhoe every chance I get. Economic justification for having a backhoe on a SCUT, absolutely none I can think of.

 

[4570Man]

I don’t think you’ll find many if any backhoe owners that wish they didn’t have them. There’s no shortage of complainers that they’re too expensive. I’ve had 3 and used all of them plenty. Now I want a midi trackhoe but they’re ungodly expensive.

 

[fried1765]

I was thinking of gettin a backhoe for my CUT after I had it for a few years, even had dealer order, but then I discovered for just a little more I could buy a 2 year old mini-excavator with more capability and versatility.

I thought it has been known to snow in every single month up there in the arrowhead.
Can you also plow with that mini-excavator?

 

[bird dogger]

In 1985 I bought my first compact tractor, a JD750 MFWD. Tractor, loader, mower, back blade and backhoe. Co-workers thought I was nuts spending that much money on the rig. Soon after, though, I was beginning to get asked to do small jobs for others and even contractors that couldn't get their equipment into back yards, barns, woods, etc. Within about 5 years the backhoe attachment alone had made enough money to pay for itself and probably the whole rig. And all on only 20HP at the engine! Some of the jobs that I can remember: Countless stumps and shrubbery removed. Landscaping jobs. Prep work for sidewalks and steps. Footings dug for backyard garage, deck, sunroom additions. Two separate septic systems installed in difficult conditions. Water lines dug in below the frostline to horse barns & corrals. Underground leaks in waterlines repaired. Electrical trenches, French drains, and drainage ditches dug. Old posts and fence lines pulled. I'll surely remember more after I post this but the drift is there. All jobs by word of mouth and usually because contractors couldn't access the area with their machines, the jobs were too small, they needed it done right away, and/or they didn't want the mess that a big rig would make in their site. Almost forgot about the egress window wells being installed and the digging needed for them. I even dug out under an existing carport to put footings under the new walls and the concrete floor. Not enough room to list all the wife's landscaping jobs...…...

 

[snymat68]

A few things I've used my backhoe for this Summer. Not to mention a lot of trenches I've dug.
They're not for everybody, but they're definitely a useful tool to have in the toolbox!