Seized engine? Need some advice.

[ihuntbear]

but the trans should be in forward gear to make the engins spin backwards

 

[Sawdustsmb]

This is getting interesting!! How cold is it there - could a bit of water get into anything and freeze. Had a bachhoe tranny freeze once. wouldn't take much.
Bob

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Trying to get an engine to turn over by pulling it when it is stuck asking for disaster. If something got into the cyl and you try pulling it you will bend a rod,break a piston of bust the head.
Bill

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

If you think about it . The tractor was running fine untill your son moved the throttle. Could it be that something screwed up in the injection pump. I have never heard of a pump locking up an engine but that was the last thing that changed. Keep us posted and good luck.
Bill

 

[Garybake]

Pull the front cover off the engine and check the gears or timing chain

If you have already accessed lower end (oil pan) and have rod cap side play (Mains rarely sieze at low speed without effecting rods first[oil feed path]) then it is time to determine lower or upper engine problem (do not rotate more than a few degrees without timing gear alignment or sprocket). If still locked up at lower end replace timing marks you made before removal and start working back crank drives to ultimate point of split trans/engine at worst. Sorry I did not repost sooner (Holiday). When one of your babies are sick it seems like forever until you know what is wrong.
Good Luck my curiosity is peeked.
Gary
Do not forget you have a loose crank bolt to torque AFTER fix.

 

[Johnp33]

When an engine is locked up, first thing is to check for end play, of the crank if you have end play that shaft is OK.
You have the oil pan off then I would like mentioned check for lateral movement of the rod caps on the crank. If the rod will not move sideways there is a problem there. Then put a bar on the crank bolt with a pipe and a weight on it to load the crank in one direction, then check for lateral movement of the rods. if one is tight then that cylinder is seized.
If it is not the crank then you should be able to rock it back and forth. If you can see the cam from the bottom check it for end play.
Tractors are not my specialty but they are all the same when it comes to diagnosis.
Removing the fan belt is always done if it is a noise problem and the starter for a seized problem. as well as the hydraulic pump, anything else you can remove as well.
Play safe!

 

[Kernopelli]

Double shift today....couldn't turn down the holiday overtime $$$ ( I might have something expensive and unexpected come up :laughing: ) so wasn't able to look at anything today. Excellent advice! Will probably be OT tomorrow too but will post as soon as I get a chance to post what I find.

 

[irvingj]

"...will post as soon as I get a chance to post what I find."

Thanks!

This is better than a good mystery novel!:thumbsup:

 

[Don87]

Double shift today....couldn't turn down the holiday overtime $$$ ( I might have something expensive and unexpected come up :laughing: ) so wasn't able to look at anything today. Excellent advice! Will probably be OT tomorrow too but will post as soon as I get a chance to post what I find.

Updates?

 

[Kernopelli]

Double shifts all week and worked the first day of my "weekend". Yesterday was spent playing catch up on other things but I got out in the garage today (don't have to be at work until 11pm) ...and....mystery solved! I checked the crank for end play and it was good. Checked rods for lateral play and #1 and #2 were fine, get to #3 and doesn't budge regardless of how I try. The piston was sitting right at TDC so I felt forced to pull the head. Got it off and with some persuasion was able to get the rod cap off then knock #3 piston up and out of the top and presto...crank spins free. You can see that there was a heat issue. I haven't seen 360* on the journal yet but I didn't see any gouging....just bluing from heat. Not sure why this end wasn't getting oil? I am surprised after seeing this as there is no question that this was the issue but wouldn't have thought that it could seize.....and remain seized without more signs of damage. What course of action is advised from here?

 

[Don87]

Double shifts all week and worked the first day of my "weekend". Yesterday was spent playing catch up on other things but I got out in the garage today (don't have to be at work until 11pm) ...and....mystery solved! I checked the crank for end play and it was good. Checked rods for lateral play and #1 and #2 were fine, get to #3 and doesn't budge regardless of how I try. The piston was sitting right at TDC so I felt forced to pull the head. Got it off and with some persuasion was able to get the rod cap off then knock #3 piston up and out of the top and presto...crank spins free. You can see that there was a heat issue. I haven't seen 360* on the journal yet but I didn't see any gouging....just bluing from heat. Not sure why this end wasn't getting oil? I am surprised after seeing this as there is no question that this was the issue but wouldn't have thought that it could seize.....and remain seized without more signs of damage. What course of action is advised from here?

Where are the bearings? Still stuck to the crankshaft?

 

[Kernopelli]

Where are the bearings? Still stuck to the crankshaft?

No, they came off relatively easily. I haven't looked at them closely yet since they landed right in a catch pan of oil and coolant I had set back under the engine and honestly I haven't fished them out yet but it doesn't appear as if they galled the crank. I may be jumping the gun on this of course since I've only seen the area of the journal that was visible from the top at that time. I have 3 discs with small ruptures and multiple bulges that I have been dodging surgery on for several years. After yesterdays chores and crawling around today, my back is shot and as soon as I freed the engine up I took some quick pics, came in the house and called it a day.

 

[rasimmo]

I would like to see the bearings also. How many hours on the engine? With a problem like that, I would change all the rod and main bearings. You should at least check clearences on them. I kinda think you were a little lucky. Had that piston stopped anywhere other than TDC it probably would have still turned over. To continue running it like that would have been a major failure eventually. The image of a rod sticking out the side of the block comes to mind.

 

[Don87]

No, they came off relatively easily. I haven't looked at them closely yet since they landed right in a catch pan of oil and coolant I had set back under the engine and honestly I haven't fished them out yet but it doesn't appear as if they galled the crank. I may be jumping the gun on this of course since I've only seen the area of the journal that was visible from the top at that time. I have 3 discs with small ruptures and multiple bulges that I have been dodging surgery on for several years. After yesterdays chores and crawling around today, my back is shot and as soon as I freed the engine up I took some quick pics, came in the house and called it a day.

That's weird. Usually if it locks the engine, the bearings and crank are galled.

Would love to see pics of the bearings and crank if possible.

Some might say different, but if I were rebuilding that engine , to keep for myself........I would replace that rod due to the heat.

 

[Kernopelli]

I would like to see the bearings also. How many hours on the engine? With a problem like that, I would change all the rod and main bearings. You should at least check clearences on them. I kinda think you were a little lucky. Had that piston stopped anywhere other than TDC it probably would have still turned over. To continue running it like that would have been a major failure eventually. The image of a rod sticking out the side of the block comes to mind.

14XX hrs.

That's weird. Usually if it locks the engine, the bearings and crank are galled.

Would love to see pics of the bearings and crank if possible.

Some might say different, but if I were rebuilding that engine , to keep for myself........I would replace that rod due to the heat.

I will try to get some more pics and it'll fill in some unknowns for me too. Have to agree on the "weird" part and basically what I was getting at when I said I wouldn't have thought it would seize without more signs of damage. Hey, maybe those signs are there and I just haven't seen them yet but so far eveything about this has been a surprise to me. If there's no O.T. tomorrow I'll fish the bearings out of the pan of fluids and spin the crank 360* for a full look at the journal....really should have stuck it out and done that today, been dragging this out too long already!

 

[E/S]

I would also pull the other rod caps, you will have a lot more info that way.

E/S

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Things just aren't adding up here. If the bearing seized to the crank it shouldn't have fell off the crank. It should have been welded to the crank and the bearing should have spun in the rod. Yours didn't. The blueing you are seeing on the rod is from the machining process. Are you certian there was nothing on top of the piston. Take a close look at the combustion chamber of the head on #3. Some pics of the journal and of the bearing will show more. Keep us posted and good luck.
Bill

 

[Doppelgangar]

Agree with you bill I don't think that is the problem either.

The colout you see is from the factory and its part of the process.

If this was the problem you will be able to turn the crank shaft now.

 

[Garybake]

Check your main bearing that feeds oil through crank to that rod journal in that it did not prevent oil feed hole to rod for some reason. I would like to see crank journal (180) before reccomend in block repair saving you a lot of work. Being it was low inertia shut down crank journal may be surfaced inside block if bearing shell did not transfer material and no nicks from rod removal as it needed a little persuasion. How do oil rings look on that piston from lack of cylinder wall splash off rod end and lube? Low speed should be fine.
Nice Job! You saved yourself a bundle.
Gary:thumbsup:

 

[whodat526]

What course of action is advised from here?

i would blow air trough the crank then change the thermostat and but in new rod bearings and be done with it