Selling paper wood vs selling firewood.

[4570Man]

Hardwood paper wood brings $22 a ton locally. This mill is only a paper wood wholesaler so I’m sure it’s worth more somewhere else, but with my current equipment I can only haul about 9 tons so it would have to be worth a substantial amount more to justify the drive. Firewood brings $50 a rick and I’m guessing it’s about a ton. I usually charge for the delivery but it’s not enough to make any money. It’s enough to cover fuel and wear on my truck. That really means I’m getting $28 a rick to cut, split, and load a rick of firewood. There’s a lot of trees they won’t take as paper wood, but I still have to cut firewood for myself and 2 other people. Note, I don’t cut down trees to sell for firewood and I won’t cut down trees to sell for paper wood. All the logs I get are either off my place that needed to come down, a lot that I’m clearing or tree guys that usually pay me to get them. What’s your thoughts in which way is a winning proposition. Another note, my other sources of income are slow this time a year. I don’t need the extra money but I don’t like sitting around and nobody complains about more money.

 

[AndyMA]

I had to lookup what a rick is

Firewood Measurements – World Forest Industries

Around here firewood is only sold by the cord

The face cord was used around here years ago but the consumer protection folks stopped it as many customers were getting ripped off thinking they were getting a cord

Andy

 

[LD1]

I guess my question would be just how picky they are for "paper" wood?

Does it have to be good solid wood? What about a little rot/decay? would that get rejected?

What about bark? Do they deduct you for that? What is the size limits? Why couldnt one load up the stuff thats no good for wood? Brush, etc?

Since its by ton...do they deduct for green/wet wood?

How do they take the wood? By the log? or do you still have to cut to small pieces?

When a tree is cut down...making firewood is inherently wasteful. If this process could make use of more of that "waste"....and taking the customer out of the equation....and not having to cut, split, stack, or handle as many times...$22/ton dont sound bad.

BUT....a rick is NOT a ton on average. Most wood (seasoned) is about 3000-3500# per cord. So a rick would be 1000-1200.

So at $22/ton you would actually only be getting $11+/- per rick.

Too many unanswered questions at the moment to comment further

 

[bcp]

Washington:

Firewood information

The legal measure for firewood in Washington is the cord or a fraction of a cord. Sellers may not legitimately use terms such as "truckload," "face cord," "rack" or "pile." These terms have no legal definition and cannot, therefore, be used as a measure for the amount of firewood being sold. Only packaged wood, such as kindling or a very small bundle of firewood, may be sold by the cubic foot or a fraction of a cubic foot.



Bruce

 

[Diggin It]

$22/ton is nothing. A 10 ton truckload for $220? You couldn't buy fuel for the truck for that. That's truck length logs, right?

I don't have any idea what I use as far as measured units. I cut and pile it, then cut and split as needed. I couldn't imagine cutting and splitting enough to sell at any type of profit when I added in costs of oil and gas to run the tools.

 

[Industrial Toys]

As to your specific question,you would know best for your particular situation and economics.

Here, many guys are selling bagged camp fire wood, for sale in front of gas stations and stores. There is better profit apparently.

Also, some guys buy a truckload of firewood delivered in log lengths for their own use. They claim it's cheaper than going to the bush, dealing with limbs and tops and having to transport the load.

 

[Jstpssng]

We call it pulpwood. You can get rid of wood such as white birch and some aspen (poplar) that people don't necessarily want in their firewood pile. You also won't need to dicker about prices; they pay you for the weight that the scales say. You may have to verify where the wood came from; in this state every load has a slip which accompanies the wood.

 

[4570Man]

I guess my question would be just how picky they are for "paper" wood?

Does it have to be good solid wood? What about a little rot/decay? would that get rejected?

What about bark? Do they deduct you for that? What is the size limits? Why couldnt one load up the stuff thats no good for wood? Brush, etc?

Since its by ton...do they deduct for green/wet wood?

How do they take the wood? By the log? or do you still have to cut to small pieces?

When a tree is cut down...making firewood is inherently wasteful. If this process could make use of more of that "waste"....and taking the customer out of the equation....and not having to cut, split, stack, or handle as many times...$22/ton dont sound bad.

BUT....a rick is NOT a ton on average. Most wood (seasoned) is about 3000-3500# per cord. So a rick would be 1000-1200.

So at $22/ton you would actually only be getting $11+/- per rick.

Too many unanswered questions at the moment to comment further

It’s between 4”-22” inches. Any log thats over 10-14” that’s pretty good will bring more in lumber. They buy it green at that rate. It also has the bark on at that rate. They want it 12’ long minimum so very little cutting. They don’t take bad rotten stuff but I don’t think they reject a little rot. I’m betting a rick of 16” long green oak is a lot closer to a ton than 1100 pounds. They don’t take really crooked stuff though.

 

[AndyMA]

Typical firewood price in Conn
Split seasoned firewood - farm & garden - by owner - sale

 

[oosik]

I really don't understand how a person can get away with selling anything by using an unrecognized unit of measure. Oh, well - there is a sucker born every day. A cord is the only recognized unit of firewood measure around here. Webster indicates that a "rick" is a unit of measure most commonly used for hay or straw - - go figure.

 

[4570Man]

$22/ton is nothing. A 10 ton truckload for $220? You couldn't buy fuel for the truck for that. That's truck length logs, right?

I don't have any idea what I use as far as measured units. I cut and pile it, then cut and split as needed. I couldn't imagine cutting and splitting enough to sell at any type of profit when I added in costs of oil and gas to run the tools.

The other option is pushing it up in a pile and burning it or cutting in 8-10’ lengths and hauling it somewhere else to cut for firewood later.

 

[Gordon Gould]

I have 3 options here similar to yours. Hard wood pulp, your paper wood, at $34 a ton, log length fire wood at $100 a cord, or hardwood pallet logs at $200 per thousand (about 2 cord depending on diameter). The difference in value is very small. None are money makers in small volumes. You either have to want something to do and break even maybe or you have to want to get rid of it and it is worth the work. To me the pulp and pallet logs are better because like Jstpssng says it is a 7 mile each way trip to the log yard and you get your money w/o an argument or big discussion. Also you don't have to dump it out behind the house w/o making ruts in the lawn.

gg

 

[CMV]

Around here, lots on clist sell split firewood (hardwood) by the pickup truck load. $X delivered, $Y if you come get it. Also see a decent amount of individual logs when people have a nice cedar or similar.

Typical examples around here are $160 for a cord, split seasoned, delivered, & stacked. $70 for a "pickup truck load" delivered (would guess a pickup load is around 1/2 cord for an 8' bed?). I would guess multiple smaller loads in a smaller truck would be more $ overall, but more time consuming for deliveries. But we're more densely populated than Crossville so a lot of potential deliveries within a 20 min drive. You'd be lucky to break even just running to Cookeville & back probably if you paid yourself min wage for splitting & loading it

Since you and someone else need wood anyway, you're already processing it. Might be best to do like a lot around here and offer it up on clist for $X per pickup load, you come & get it. The wood is there for your use, people come and take away the excess you processed, but you're not really going out of your way or expense loading & delivering. Extra passive income whenever someone shows up to take a little at a time.

 

[crazyal]

When I was clearing a lot to build on I had a lot of hardwood that I needed to get rid of. Most of it was red maple, so not high value. So I ended up cutting and splitting it. I sold some but would never do it for a living. In fact I doubt I would do any of those options as I would rather let the trees rot and replenish the soil. Some of the local guys use a chainsaw and splitter while others just rent a processor for a day (about $400). A processor may not be too bad but you would need enough wood to keep it busy to justify the added expense. The biggest problem with firewood is people expect too much. More than one person assumed I was going to stack the wood at their house. If you can find a way of off loading it into a pile you might do ok with selling it in log length for firewood. But I have a feeling that people are not going to want it just rolled off the side of a trailer.

 

[4570Man]

I have 3 options here similar to yours. Hard wood pulp, your paper wood, at $34 a ton, log length fire wood at $100 a cord, or hardwood pallet logs at $200 per thousand (about 2 cord depending on diameter). The difference in value is very small. None are money makers in small volumes. You either have to want something to do and break even maybe or you have to want to get rid of it and it is worth the work. To me the pulp and pallet logs are better because like Jstpssng says it is a 7 mile each way trip to the log yard and you get your money w/o an argument or big discussion. Also you don't have to dump it out behind the house w/o making ruts in the lawn.

gg

I get 200 per thousand on low grade logs that don’t meet the criteria for paper wood. I don’t have the option to sell unsplit for 100 a cord otherwise I’d probably do that.

 

[Jstpssng]

You are getting a better price selling it as logs than for pulpwood. (paper wood.) A thousand feet is approximately 2 cords, or 9400 lbs of hardwood.
I may misunderstand what you are saying though, generally even a low grade log needs to be more straight and sound than a stick of pulp.

 

[Diggin It]

The other option is pushing it up in a pile and burning it or cutting in 8-10’ lengths and hauling it somewhere else to cut for firewood later.

How would it work out for a logger to come in, cut and haul away? I see that done quite a bit, but I never ask anyone about money involved.

 

[LD1]

Firewood is a nasty cut-throat business.

When we cut excess, we sell. When we don't get any cut, we dont sell. Just depends on the year, weather, other life circumstances, etc. And IF we sell, when we are out, we are out.

Last year we sold somewhere between 20 and 30 full cords, I don't remember exactly. Sold for $160/cord delivered within a 15-20 mile radius or so.

But there is NEVER a shortage of people on c-list selling truckloads of wood....which I too HATE.

Rick, rack, face-cord are "technically" illegal as others mentioned as they arent a defined unit of measurement.....BUT....at least MOST know its 1/3 cord for pieces cut ~16". And as much as I would prefer someone just to advertise 1/3-cord....it is still MUCH better than "truckload"

What is a "truckload"?
short bed, long bed, or small truck like a S-10 or ranger?
is the bed a standard bed....or is it like the modern trucks that are 4" +/- deeper
Is the load thrown in or stacked
How high is it heaped?

Just too many variables.

I have NEVER had one complaint about selling someone a "cord" of wood. And often get surprised looks at the amount of wood I am delivering, and comments like "thats alot more wood than the last guy we got a cord from"

Too many dishonest people out there. But prices "advertised" range from under $100 a cord to over $200 a cord around here. So who knows what the actual fair market value is. And who knows what the quality of the wood is, and if its even seasoned.

Sold out of wood last year selling for $160, and started having to tell people we were out. That tells me that my price is too cheap. Id rather sell less wood for more money.

 

[Jstpssng]

^^^
I got an email from my cousin a few years ago. He had bought a load of 8' firewood; every stick was 7 feet, six inches. I don't know for sure but it sounded like it was cut with a timber processor and the guy needed to recalibrate his computer. I also don't know what my cousin did, if anything; but suggested that he ask for a rate reduction. OTOH it may have been stacked higher or longer to accommodate the shorter length.

 

[CobyRupert]

But there is NEVER a shortage of people on c-list selling truckloads of wood....which I too HATE.

Rick, rack, face-cord are "technically" illegal as others mentioned as they arent a defined unit of measurement.....BUT....at least MOST know its 1/3 cord for pieces cut ~16". And as much as I would prefer someone just to advertise 1/3-cord....it is still MUCH better than "truckload"

What is a "truckload"?
short bed, long bed, or small truck like a S-10 or ranger?
is the bed a standard bed....or is it like the modern trucks that are 4" +/- deeper
Is the load thrown in or stacked
How high is it heaped?

Just too many variables.

True, there's SO MANY VARIABLES: Type of wood (BTU's), moisture content, small rounds vs. split heart wood, bark, stacked vs. unstacked (and air space as function of smaller rounds vs. split small vs. split larger, air space of "curvy wood" vs. neat square chunks), stacked delivery or dumped, etc.. and PRICE!

With so many other variables it seems ridicules that the unit used for measurement becomes a fuss. Is it okay to say "that much wood right there for $x"?

"Caveat emptor!" (Let the buyer be aware)

Even if it is "a cord", that doesn't tell you very much if you're trying to compare the BTU's to someone else's cord.

I bet I could take a "cord" of wood and stack it so it's .8 cord of wood, or stack it so it's 1.25 cord of wood. So which of the 3 is it?