Shortening folding ROPS on BX24

[ray66v]

The ROPS height is dictated by an international, not USA, standard and was really established by manufacturers being sued and having the negative publicity of machinery deaths.

"In the United States, standards for ROPS design and utilization for tractors were first developed in 1967 by the American Society for Agricultural and Biological Engineers. ROPS legislation was passed in 1975, with OSHA requiring that all tractors manufactured from 25 October 1976 onwards be equipped with ROPS. In 1985, the development of a new voluntary safety standard by the American Society of Agricultural and Biological Engineers (S318.10) encouraged an initiative by American tractor manufacturers to equip new tractors over 20 horsepower with ROPS."

 

[Underwhere]

I had a lot of fun tonight.
About another 2.5 hours cutting sqaures and cleaning up metal to provide support.

I like it.

 

[Underwhere]

It’s your tractor and as long as you don’t hire a person to drive it there is no problem. The ROPS height is dictated by an international, not USA, standard and was really established by manufacturers being sued and having the negative publicity of machinery deaths. Manufacturers place the decal as a CYA item. Height is dictated by the 90th percentile human bottom height and was established by testing with dummies and rolling machines down hills and examining the results. In my fatal accident investigations the first thing I checked for was ROPS label, modifications, and seat belt use, condition. But that only meant something if there is an accident. I’ve been asked by dealers getting a machine in on trade and finding an altered ROPS if the alteration was okay and always had to say no even if I felt there was no issue. The dealer could use their own judgement but the company’s liability is too high. If there is an accident the suer always goes for the deepest pockets and in every fatal accident there is a suit. You might say I’d never do that but you are dead and insurance companies, relatives you never knew of, they all come out of the woodwork.

Thanks for that info.

I'm curious. How do most rollover accidents happen?

Not just tipping over but all the way over where the top of the ROPS makes contact with the ground.

I'm sure you must see a lot where a seat belt and ROPS were not used. Have you ever seen ROPS fail when needed (and it was being used) ?

 

[4570Man]

Can anyone link a single case where someone has been killed in a rollover or even hurt where a shortened rollbar made the difference? If I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard that BS I’d be rich. Option one is to leave the ROPS alone and the likely outcome is you won’t be bothered to fold it up for your brief across flat ground trip because you’re not going to flip over anyway. Option 2 is to shorten it 3 inches so you can drive in the garage and it will stay up all the time. IMO option 2 is way safer.

 

[Underwhere]

Can anyone link a single case where someone has been killed in a rollover or even hurt where a shortened rollbar made the difference? If I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard that BS I’d be rich. Option one is to leave the ROPS alone and the likely outcome is you won’t be bothered to fold it up for your brief across flat ground trip because you’re not going to flip over anyway. Option 2 is to shorten it 3 inches so you can drive in the garage and it will stay up all the time. IMO option 2 is way safer.

That's my logic but I don't have the insight that some of these guys do.

I figure that I'm much better off having the ROPS up 100% of the time (even if it's modified) than be one of the guys who uses theirs 25% of the time because they think it's too much of a hassle.

I really see a ton of people using machinery with ROPS down or missing in my town.

 

[4570Man]

That's my logic but I don't have the insight that some of these guys do.

I figure that I'm much better off having the ROPS up 100% of the time (even if it's modified) than be one of the guys who uses theirs 25% of the time because they think it's too much of a hassle.

I really see a ton of people using machinery with ROPS down or missing in my town.

I think this issue is blown way out of proportion. There’s WAY more hazards involved with a tractor than worrying about shorting a ROPS as long as the weld job is good and it wasn’t shortened a drastic amount in relation to the operators height. I’d be more worried about a tree randomly falling on my head, getting struck by lightning, the engine exploding and a piece of shrapnel hitting me in the head. Then we could look for actual hazards. People are incredibly poor at risk assessment.

 

[ultrarunner]

If my BX23 rops was 1" shorter it would fit easily into the garage with rops up.

I know, from personal experience it will also fit as-is with rops up!

It was getting dark and starting to rain so I opened the door and drove in... just as the rops hit and the front end lifted did I realize my mistake...

 

[dragoneggs]

Nice job Underwhere... no criticism from me here. Someday I might shorten my ROPS a bit too, to get in my garage without lowering. I don't regularly park my BX there so it is not a priority but I have come to an unexpected halt a couple of times when I forgot. Seems I have learned my lesson so it is lower on my priority.

I think if I do shorten it, I would probably go with an internal sleeve design (for esthetic reasons) vs. external doublers (or diamonds in your case). But I have to say your doublers 'look' great and far more pleasing than scabbing on rectangular ones! :thumbsup:

Now for the purpose of a diamond shaped doubler vs rectangular... they are generally meant to gradually transfer the load/stress. This is very important in fatigue situations... not so important in a static or a one time loading situation. I could go on about structural design engineering but bla, bla, bla...

Thanks for posting your pics! Oh, and nice welding too. :thumbsup:

 

[ray66v]

The U.S. government is currently testing an auto deploying ROPS.

Look for this costly solution to possibly be mandated in the future due to, among other things, operators leaving their folding ROPS down during use.

 

[dougtrr2]

I started this thread and just now realized I never did a completion post. Sorry about that. I do not have a welder so I cut three inches(?) off the bottom and redrilled the holes. So you can get it shorter by either method; cut the top and reweld or cut off the bottom and redrill. I am glad I did and I don't think I have lowered it since I shortened it. And I do wear my seat belt at all times now.

Doug in SW IA

 

[Underwhere]

I started this thread and just now realized I never did a completion post. Sorry about that. I do not have a welder so I cut three inches(?) off the bottom and redrilled the holes. So you can get it shorter by either method; cut the top and reweld or cut off the bottom and redrill. I am glad I did and I don't think I have lowered it since I shortened it. And I do wear my seat belt at all times now.

Doug in SW IA

Cool. Any pics?
Maybe I went through a lot of wasted effort.

 

[check]

Nice job Underwhere... no criticism from me here. Someday I might shorten my ROPS a bit too, to get in my garage without lowering. I don't regularly park my BX there so it is not a priority but I have come to an unexpected halt a couple of times when I forgot. Seems I have learned my lesson so it is lower on my priority.

I think if I do shorten it, I would probably go with an internal sleeve design (for esthetic reasons) vs. external doublers (or diamonds in your case). But I have to say your doublers 'look' great and far more pleasing than scabbing on rectangular ones! :thumbsup:

Now for the purpose of a diamond shaped doubler vs rectangular... they are generally meant to gradually transfer the load/stress. This is very important in fatigue situations... not so important in a static or a one time loading situation. I could go on about structural design engineering but bla, bla, bla...

Thanks for posting your pics! Oh, and nice welding too. :thumbsup:

Gheez, Mark, I didn’t know you knew all that s__t! I’m going to have to pay more attention to your postings from now on! LOL

 

[check]

Fortunately, I got my tractor before I built my garage, so I was able to build it with 9 foot ceilings and plenty of clearance underneath the overhead door. I have, however forgotten to lower the robs a couple times when I was driving into my 10‘ x 20‘ plastic garage. Oops! Fortunately I only do it once a year when I go in there to get the snowblower mounted.

 

[Diggin It]

I wouldn't mind doing it, but can't while still under warranty.

I'll have to do something about the shed door though before too long.

 

[dragoneggs]

I wouldn't mind doing it, but can't while still under warranty.

Smart man.

 

[MHarryE]

"In the United States, standards for ROPS design and utilization for tractors were first developed in 1967 by the American Society for Agricultural and Biological Engineers. ROPS legislation was passed in 1975, with OSHA requiring that all tractors manufactured from 25 October 1976 onwards be equipped with ROPS. In 1985, the development of a new voluntary safety standard by the American Society of Agricultural and Biological Engineers (S318.10) encouraged an initiative by American tractor manufacturers to equip new tractors over 20 horsepower with ROPS."

You are talking history. Currently ROPS standards ISO 5700 (Static ROPS Test Standard) or ISO 3463 ( Dynamic ROPS Test Standard) are the specifications for ROPS. Back in the 1967 where you first quoted I was an engineer for Allis-Chalmers. My early near death tractor rollover was on an Allis-Chalmers B. As an industry we wanted a design standard and regulation so everyone was on an even playing field. The majors like Allis, Deere, Case, IH, didn’t want imports coming in with non-ROPS tractors and destroy the market. Also we wanted a standard we could design and test to. Sure an owner could remove or modify but by doing that the liability was off us. Later as an engineer at Caterpillar I learned ASAE and SAE used the Peoria Proving Grounds for rolling tractors, dozers, etc. down a controlled slope to determine requirements. Now the SAE spec refers to the ISO standard so every country doesn’t require their own spec but the ISO standard is based on the SAE original.

 

[MHarryE]

Thanks for that info.

I'm curious. How do most rollover accidents happen?

Not just tipping over but all the way over where the top of the ROPS makes contact with the ground.

I'm sure you must see a lot where a seat belt and ROPS were not used. Have you ever seen ROPS fail when needed (and it was being used) ?

I’ve only seen ROPS fail due to metal fatigue. Personally I’ve never been to an accident and found anything worse then slightly deformed ROPS. I remember at least 2 accidents where the ROPS was the cause of death. Both were working on the edge of berms where the ground gave way and not wearing seat belts, they tried to jump clear. There is no way to tell if the operator would have survived if they were not ROPS equipped. I’ve investigated one accident where the operator was wearing a seat belt yet was killed. Power shift transmission, ran out of fuel going uphill. Brakes so far out of adjustment they wouldn’t hold. No engine, no hydraulic pressure, clutches released and off he went backward down the hill. We estimated his speed over 50 mph when it rolled and he suffered a fatal head injury. Even with that type of impact I measured the permanent ROPS deflection at 2 inches max. The owner had flipped the machine upright at the time I arrived. We added diesel and drove it away after adjusting the brakes.

 

[ultrarunner]

ROPS are more than roll over protection...

I was clearing a wooded area and heading back on the Dozer and the blade was not engaged and WHAM... a large Bay Tree on the high bank toppled and hit the ROPS... the Dozer was barely visible buried under the tree canopy.

I would not be here today if not for the Caterpillar ROPS

 

[BleedingOrange]

Can anyone link a single case where someone has been killed in a rollover or even hurt where a shortened rollbar made the difference? If I had a dollar for every time I致e heard that BS I壇 be rich. Option one is to leave the ROPS alone and the likely outcome is you won稚 be bothered to fold it up for your brief across flat ground trip because youæ±*e not going to flip over anyway. Option 2 is to shorten it 3 inches so you can drive in the garage and it will stay up all the time. IMO option 2 is way safer.

There is an option 3 as well. Do as you wish, and don,t post what you did on facebook, or forums.:laughing:

 

[Underwhere]

I’ve only seen ROPS fail due to metal fatigue. Personally I’ve never been to an accident and found anything worse then slightly deformed ROPS. I remember at least 2 accidents where the ROPS was the cause of death. Both were working on the edge of berms where the ground gave way and not wearing seat belts, they tried to jump clear. There is no way to tell if the operator would have survived if they were not ROPS equipped. I’ve investigated one accident where the operator was wearing a seat belt yet was killed. Power shift transmission, ran out of fuel going uphill. Brakes so far out of adjustment they wouldn’t hold. No engine, no hydraulic pressure, clutches released and off he went backward down the hill. We estimated his speed over 50 mph when it rolled and he suffered a fatal head injury. Even with that type of impact I measured the permanent ROPS deflection at 2 inches max. The owner had flipped the machine upright at the time I arrived. We added diesel and drove it away after adjusting the brakes.

Thanks for sharing.

I think I read this once and have always attempted to abide by it:

If the ROPS is down, don't wear your belt.
If the ROPS is up, make sure the belt is on.

I forget where I read it. I don't even know whether it's good advice.