Should we upgrade for 5 HP? Same model same options ... Hmmmm....

[shooterdon]

Don,

About a year ago I was talking to some folks here about the tractor after I had just purchased it and commented on what others thought were important to their choice in buying tractors.

A gentleman chimed in that he had purchased a 40hp unit that he used from time to time on his property for minor stuff... very minor.

Hearing that was unsettling for me. After all, I was - for the previous 2 years, all about studying how I would best fulfill everything that I could possibly use the tractor for and making determinations to skip this or add that based on what I was learning about as a newbie never owning anything like this ... a lot of that came from right here.

But this gentleman's response after I questioned the fact that he had spent so much money on something that he used so very little. Because that was what I had been working on in my head for the last 2 years...this Gentleman, so very wise and obviously much more a gentleman than I replied:

"Don, when you get to be a certain age, its not the cost. Its not how much you use it, maybe its not the color or the HP... but maybe it's having it when you want it, to do or not do whatever it is you want ... Life is short, being happy is imperative."

Now those may not be the exact words, but that's exactly what I gained from that short but wise conversation.

That concept my friend will never leave my side, and it came from this forum... awesome!!!

When I traded my 24 HP JD 855 i came close to getting the 35 HP LS 3100 series machine. At the time, I was in my late 60's and knew this would be my last tractor. For a few thousand more I decided to go with the bigger 4100 series and got the 40 HP model. In my case, I wanted a SSQA. more tractor lift capacity and a cab. The only thing I need PTO power for is snow blowing so my needs are different than yours.

The point of my original post is trading for another 5 HP does not make a lot of sense to me. I do not believe adding 5 HP is a game changer, but I could be wrong. If I was not happy with what I have (as you are), I would size the tractor for what it needs to do and add a bit more to that specification. In my case, 40 HP engine (34 PTO HP), if i wanted more HP for the blower, I would go with the 55 HP engine with 47 PTO HP. Buy once cry once.

Now, to be honest, my HP is at the low end of what I need but I deal with it. First pass I go a bit slower when we get a heavy dump of snow. On subsequent passes I can keep going slow or take a 2/3 swath. If we were going to get 24" of snow, I would not wait for it to stop snowing and attack it all at one go. Not a big deal for me to go out 3 times during a once in a decade event to deal with a blizzard.

Grass is even easier to deal with, unless you are gone for weeks...months?? Take partial cuts or do it more frequently and reduce the load on the brush hog.

Just checked your specs and it seems a 60" BH would be another option. A good one is less than $2000 and you could use it when the grass is out of control. Same as a 17% increase in power. If you have a lot of grass to cut, you can keep your 72" for normal use. A lot less money than trading your Kubota unless you need a bigger machine of other uses.

https://www.(Temporarily blocked du...Duty-Rotary-Brush-Cutter-p/eta-xdbc-60-sp.htm

 

[pokey1416]

I was in your place awhile ago albeit one model up, with my GL4060. It was the disappointment in loader lift capacity and loader lift height. I thought about upgrading and in the end decided I have personalized my tractor so much that I don't want to start over - so I load a little less in the bucket and order up smaller dump trucks (lower sides). I did use this "excuse" with the mrs. though and bought a dump trailer since I couldn't get over the sides of the dump trucks!!!!

 

[DonaldP]

When I traded my 24 HP JD 855 i came close to getting the 35 HP LS 3100 series machine. At the time, I was in my late 60's and knew this would be my last tractor. For a few thousand more I decided to go with the bigger 4100 series and got the 40 HP model. In my case, I wanted a SSQA. more tractor lift capacity and a cab. The only thing I need PTO power for is snow blowing so my needs are different than yours.

The point of my original post is trading for another 5 HP does not make a lot of sense to me. I do not believe adding 5 HP is a game changer, but I could be wrong. If I was not happy with what I have (as you are), I would size the tractor for what it needs to do and add a bit more to that specification. In my case, 40 HP engine (34 PTO HP), if i wanted more HP for the blower, I would go with the 55 HP engine with 47 PTO HP. Buy once cry once.

Now, to be honest, my HP is at the low end of what I need but I deal with it. First pass I go a bit slower when we get a heavy dump of snow. On subsequent passes I can keep going slow or take a 2/3 swath. If we were going to get 24" of snow, I would not wait for it to stop snowing and attack it all at one go. Not a big deal for me to go out 3 times during a once in a decade event to deal with a blizzard.

Grass is even easier to deal with, unless you are gone for weeks...months?? Take partial cuts or do it more frequently and reduce the load on the brush hog.

Just checked your specs and it seems a 60" BH would be another option. A good one is less than $2000 and you could use it when the grass is out of control. Same as a 17% increase in power. If you have a lot of grass to cut, you can keep your 72" for normal use. A lot less money than trading your Kubota unless you need a bigger machine of other uses.

https://www.(Temporarily blocked du...Duty-Rotary-Brush-Cutter-p/eta-xdbc-60-sp.htm

I’m still giggling to myself (buy once cry once!”)

ok.. so it’s not to myself,I am laughing loud and the folks around me at work are thinking I’m Scrooge after his visits with the ghosts, or I just got a Christmas bonus!

 

[DonaldP]

This brings up a recurring topic regarding HST drive tractors. The foot pedal acts like the gas pedal in a car, but is is NOT the same thing. In a car, the accelerator raises engine rpm to go faster; the foot pedal in a conventional HST tractor doesn't change engine speed but does change the "gear ratio" of the transmission to produce faster ground speed. As with any transmission, gear or hydraulic when you have more speed there is less pulling power. So, when you're heading up the hill and the engine starts to work harder, keeping the HST pedal to the floor is exactly backwards of what to do. You want to BACK OFF the foot pedal some, bringing the HST into a "lower gear" so the engine does't need to work as hard getting up the hill. I haven't run the advanced HST's, such as what you have, but suppose that when the Auto throttle has raised the engine throttle all the way, it's still up you to realize that backing off the foot pedal and slowing down a bit is the best way to get up the hill, that is if you know what you are doing.

If you are not doing it that way, I would seriously suggest a little time spent perfecting your driving technique before throwing money at the situation by replacing the tractor.

This is a perfect example to experiment with!!!

From my past experience I can say this...

When in that specific situation, pushing the pedal to the floor is like milking a cow that's already been milked... nothing happens.

Letting off the gas does not provide a miracle... nor any change in engine or transmission speed /ratio to spur any change in speed or hp to the wheels.

I could let off and re-apply the pedal incrementally ... which puts me in the exact same place as I was before.

The HST does not provide automatic downshifting or upshifting of the transmission... it does provide for the same low/high shift options which are available in any gear (L,M,H). But the transmission will not auto shift down to a lower gear as a car might in order to provide more torque at a slower speed, or shift up to provide more speed at a higher speed of the drivetrain.

The key takeaway is this... on an HST transmission you have 3 speeds... L, M, H. You also have a range selector that subdivides those 3 ranges into an additional Low and Hight for each range from L, M, H.

when you let off the gas pedal in M, the transmission does not automatically slip into a lower gear providing more speed to the engine and therefore more torque... what it does do is provide you with either a "fast" or "Slow" for the range you are currently in.

if you are bogging down while in Med you have options...

If you are in medium and in Fast speed, you can shift down into slow speed which will gain you some HP ot torque.



It will stay in whatever gear you have it (L,M,H) with the additional two speed option on top of that (which basically provides 6 speeds in all or 2 - speeds in each of the L,M, H transmission locations.

 

[shooterdon]

This is a perfect example to experiment with!!!

From my past experience I can say this...

When in that specific situation, pushing the pedal to the floor is like milking a cow that's already been milked... nothing happens.

Letting off the gas does not provide a miracle... nor any change in engine or transmission speed /ratio to spur any change in speed or hp to the wheels.

I could let off and re-apply the pedal incrementally ... which puts me in the exact same place as I was before.

The HST does not provide automatic downshifting or upshifting of the transmission... it does provide for the same low/high shift options which are available in any gear (L,M,H). But the transmission will not auto shift down to a lower gear as a car might in order to provide more torque at a slower speed, or shift up to provide more speed at a higher speed of the drivetrain.

The key takeaway is this... on an HST transmission you have 3 speeds... L, M, H. You also have a range selector that subdivides those 3 ranges into an additional Low and Hight for each range from L, M, H.

when you let off the gas pedal in M, the transmission does not automatically slip into a lower gear providing more speed to the engine and therefore more torque... what it does do is provide you with either a "fast" or "Slow" for the range you are currently in.

if you are bogging down while in Med you have options...

If you are in medium and in Fast speed, you can shift down into slow speed which will gain you some HP ot torque.



It will stay in whatever gear you have it (L,M,H) with the additional two speed option on top of that (which basically provides 6 speeds in all or 2 - speeds in each of the L,M, H transmission locations.

My machine is much simpler...only three ranges. I do almost all my work in range 2. If the tractor starts to bog down, I need to stop and shift to range 1.

I also have mostly flat land so that helps when grading and pulling a heavy cut.

After reading your post I am even more convinced adding 5hp is not going to help you much. If you are bogging downing low range, you are way under powered.

One last suggestion. See if you can rent or borrow a tractor with 5 more HP and see how it performs. Borrowing a 5 ft BH might give you another data point.

On a bright note, you are going to get top dollar for the machine you have if you trade up. It was on my short list for a while.

Good luck.

 

[jeff9366]

DonaldP: Kindly comment on Post #19 and answer the tire question posed.

 

[Grandad4]

Most Grand L Kubota tractors have auto throttle advance and stall guard features that minimize this problem.

However the OP stated that he was only using the Auto-Throttle Advance feature. Is stall guard automatically engaged with Auto Throttle? If auto- throttle is only advancing engine rpm, it can only do so much when horsepower is limited.

Being and old relic, I operated two Kubota HST's for more than 15 years, but they predated HST+, so my HST+ knowledge is totally hearsay.

 

[Grandad4]

when you let off the gas pedal in M, the transmission does not automatically slip into a lower gear providing more speed to the engine and therefore more torque... what it does do is provide you with either a "fast" or "Slow" for the range you are currently in.

Actually it does, but you're not noticing it. Here's an experiment to try to prove it to yourself. Use L or M, not H. Turn off the Auto Throttle. Put the engine at a comfortable rpm (1800-2000 rpm, maybe?), with the hand throttle. Step on the "gas pedal" a little bit. The tractor will move ahead slowly, engine rpm will remain constant. Press a little harder on the pedal and the tractor will speed up, but the engine will still be running at the same rpm.

Now, think about what just happened. If the engine stays at the same rpm, how is it that you can adjust your ground speed with the foot pedal? Obviously something else is changing and it is within the HST transmission, where there is the hydraulic equivalent of changing the gear ratios going on.

That HST+ is an impressive bit of kit because it combines engine speed, actual gears, hydraulics and electronics to give the operator so many options. But the point still stands that an HST transmission can deliver more grunt when you ask it to deliver a slow ground speed.

Stepping down from my soapbox, I do think more power would improve your situation, and agree with others suggesting something above 40hp would be optimal. I ran a 46 hp Grand L for many years and it never really worked hard running a 6 ft. cutter through anything I could drive over, irrespective of slope.

Whether it makes financial sense at this point to replace your 35 hp setup is a whole different issue that only you can determine. Best of luck figuring this out!

 

[streamin]

the only opinion I have is based on my past experience for what it's worth. I went fro a L3230 to L5030, basically 20hp upgrade. For the amount of difference I noticed I really DON'T think you will notice a 5 Hp difference. But when forced to sell for financial reasons, I went with Mahindra for a couple reasons (but not relevant here). Still stuck with 50hp, was a good size for my needs as may be yours...

 

[DonaldP]

This brings up a recurring topic regarding HST drive tractors. The foot pedal acts like the gas pedal in a car, but is is NOT the same thing. In a car, the accelerator raises engine rpm to go faster; the foot pedal in a conventional HST tractor doesn't change engine speed but does change the "gear ratio" of the transmission to produce faster ground speed. As with any transmission, gear or hydraulic when you have more speed there is less pulling power. So, when you're heading up the hill and the engine starts to work harder, keeping the HST pedal to the floor is exactly backwards of what to do. You want to BACK OFF the foot pedal some, bringing the HST into a "lower gear" so the engine does't need to work as hard getting up the hill. I haven't run the advanced HST's, such as what you have, but suppose that when the Auto throttle has raised the engine throttle all the way, it's still up you to realize that backing off the foot pedal and slowing down a bit is the best way to get up the hill, that is if you know what you are doing.

If you are not doing it that way, I would seriously suggest a little time spent perfecting your driving technique before throwing money at the situation by replacing the tractor.