Shuttle Shift or Hydrostatic.....

[skipperbrown]

If you are going be doing a lot of precision work such as FEL work, changing directions a lot, moving around things like trees, landscaping, buildings, etc., I highly recommend the hydro. Most larger hydro units also have 'cruise control' for setting the right speed when mowing large areas. Cruise control means setting the perfect speed for the conditions. Hydros allow you to instantly slow down when hitting a thick patch while mowing to keep from overtaxing the engine and speed up on thin areas where you can go faster. I don't use shuttle shift, but either hydro or standard gear tractors (larger tractors) and I will pick the hydro every time unless I'm need the power of the larger machines. The downside to hydros is the cost, some whine, and they eat a few HP as they aren't as efficient.

 

[gunny0628]

Thank you guys so much for your replies and the information. It’s making it tough to decide. My wife will also be operating the tractor to cut grass, move manure and drag fields.

Such a tough choice.

Is the difference in HP loss at the PTO negligible?

As far as the overheating it probably isn’t as bad especially if I keep it clean. Which I already have really bad OCD anyways.

 

[cdb2]

That might make a difference. I took my wife with me to test drive the 55 hydro and the 74 power shuttle (they didn't have a shuttle 55 at the time) and she preferred the hydro hands down. She's run the tractor quite a few times and likes it. Even though she can drive stick and clutch just fine, having one less thing to think about makes her more comfortable with it. I don't think she'd drive it at all otherwise.

RK says 2.5HP difference at the PTO, but I'm not sure how much of a real difference that ends up being. I do know that mine gets along just fine mowing fields with a 6' flail mower. On occasion it bogs down a little in heavy grass or brush but the load sense just slows it down from cruise control and then speeds right back up again after a few seconds. It does get fairly hot after a few hours mowing, so I try to be good about cleaning out the radiator and coolers pretty regularly. They get packed up pretty fast cutting the fields.

If I remember correctly the field in this pic was at least a foot or two high, didn't have any troubles going along as fast as I wanted.



Have you already test driven both trans? If not you ought to run both kinds for 30 min or so at the RK, especially practicing forward/stop/reverse over and over since you do that a lot with the grapple. I bet it would make the choice easier.

 

[Pecan Farming]

Thank you guys so much for your replies and the information. It痴 making it tough to decide. My wife will also be operating the tractor to cut grass, move manure and drag fields.

Such a tough choice.

Is the difference in HP loss at the PTO negligible?

As far as the overheating it probably isn稚 as bad especially if I keep it clean. Which I already have really bad OCD anyways.

In addition to the RK55 Hydro I have a Kubota B3000 Hydro/with cab. The Kubota is only 30hp engine and 23PTOhp. I have ran both a 6 foot bush hog and 6' finish mower with it. Way more mower than the 23hp wants except in really light materail. It just did not have the HP for those and that is one reason I stepped up to the RK55. That said I have never over heated either of the hydro transmissions running hours at time in 95 degree Florida weather. The key is to keep the cooler clean up front the same as the radiator. There is a HP loss using the hydro trans but you will not notice it in any real sense in real world conditions if the HP on a given tractor are the same. I have a Kubota M4800 gear, 50hp engine, 43hp PTO. Mowing the same field conditions I can not tell the difference between it and the RK 55 hydro. 55hp engine, 42hp PTO. The only difference is when the gear overloads and starts to draw the engine down I have to clutch and either let the engine catch back up or downshift. With the hydro I just decrease the ground speed with the pedal and then go again.

 

[gunny0628]

The information is really really good. I can’t say thanks enough. I’m going to have my wife test drive the hydro. She was good with a gear driven ford before and used to drive it all the time. But I want her to be comfortable.

You guys know if there is any big difference between the TYM T574 and the RK 55?

A guy from a local dealership says he can get me a better deal than RK - but the customer service is so much better at RK.

I’ve just never really had good luck with the salesmen at dealerships who usually sell based on commission.

Thanks again for all the responses.

 

[TripleR]

Don't buy into the HST being more prone to heating we have several and it's no different than our geared tractors. If we will be awy from a shop, we use a gas leaf blower or whisk broom. At our shops, my brother added a two foot extension with holes on the sides to better clean the radiator and condenser. You can buy them or make them.

I'm getting a bit long in the tooth and have a bad leg, so I am a bit quicker on my L5740HSTC than M8540HDC hydro-shuttle, but my brother or sons can match the HST with the hydro-shuttle. My wife won't touch any geared tractor, but can use the HST+ if needed.

 

[gunny0628]

Don't buy into the HST being more prone to heating we have several and it's no different than our geared tractors. If we will be awy from a shop, we use a gas leaf blower or whisk broom. At our shops, my brother added a two foot extension with holes on the sides to better clean the radiator and condenser. You can buy them or make them.

I'm getting a bit long in the tooth and have a bad leg, so I am a bit quicker on my L5740HSTC than M8540HDC hydro-shuttle, but my brother or sons can match the HST with the hydro-shuttle. My wife won't touch any geared tractor, but can use the HST+ if needed.

Thanks for the info.

 

[ovrszd]

And Pecan Farming quoted an excellent comparison in regards to HP eaten by a hydro. The gear tractor, 50HP, 43 PTO HP, versus the Hydro 55HP, 42 PTO HP.

 

[Professor Marvel]

HYDRO
I will not get anything but a hydro unless i get a ridiculously good buy on a gear

 

[gunny0628]

And Pecan Farming quoted an excellent comparison in regards to HP eaten by a hydro. The gear tractor, 50HP, 43 PTO HP, versus the Hydro 55HP, 42 PTO HP.

Is that because it’s hydraulic dependent?

 

[Pecan Farming]

HYDRO
I will not get anything but a hydro unless i get a ridiculously good buy on a gear

I am there myself. The HP numbers are from the book(s). It appears as though these numbers indicate that 6hp is taken by the hydro transmission. There is probably some rule of thumb about what percentage a hydro will use over a gear. But the versatility the hydro gives me, more than makes up for it. I look at it this way. There are some things a gear can do as well as a hydro like go in a straight line and not have to change direction or speed much. The hydro can do everything the gear can do just as well if one can get over the HP loss but it can do anything that involves changing speed or direction much better and more precise. I have used a grapple a lot cleaning up after hurricane Michael. Being able to position the grapple to pick up awkward trees, limbs and trash is price less. I am more productive with a hydro with just about everything. A lot of people stick with gears and that is why they still makes gears in tractors. Rarely do I hear from someone who had a hydro go back to a gear unless they go to a bigger tractor that does not have hydro as an option or the price is right. I wonder if the Constant Variable Transmission will make to the lower HP tractors one day?

 

[ovrszd]

All tractors have a HP loss to the PTO. This is because the PTO gets it's power from the same source as the drivetrain.

Hydro drive uses more HP simply by design. It has to develop and maintain pressure constantly.

Pecan Farming describes the difference very well. Personal preference comes into play as well as tractor size. I think 60HP is generally the cutoff. Tractors above that are gear drive.

 

[gunny0628]

Yeah the more and more reading I do just seems like it boils down to personal preference. I think somewhere, even with both you are going to move a lever, press a pedal or shift a gear. Once we get back from vacation we are going to test drive both. I want my wife to decide what she feels more comfortable with. I think she will be just fine on the shuttle.

My only follow up is that it seems folks are saying they can get more precise with the grapple or loader with hydro? How so? Is it because you don’t have to ride the clutch or use the clutch? Not sure I understand.

Either way, I know I’ll be extremely happy. It’s priceless alone to have air conditioning and a closed cab to keep the dust out. Just wish it was a two seater. Lol

Thanks again for the responses.

 

[ovrszd]

As to precision. Not familiar with the RK pedal design. Can you run the hydro pedal with one foot and run both brake pedals with the other?

If not, a lot of precision is lost with hydro.

 

[markie61]

As to precision. Not familiar with the RK pedal design. Can you run the hydro pedal with one foot and run both brake pedals with the other?

If not, a lot of precision is lost with hydro.

Yup - do it all the time on my NHTC40D.

 

[3gunr]

I find my hydro to be much easier on my low back when brush hogging. i have lots of trees to cut around and i can go back and forth while looking backward without having to turn back and push in the clutch and shift forward , it is way faster. I still like my shuttle but love the new hydro. I run a 6 ft cutter and tiller with 32 pto hp no problem.

 

[markie61]

I hate to weigh in on this since I have been listening to the arguments of gear vs. hydrostatic on these forums for 20 years. But...

It all depends on how you will use the tractor and the terrain you have. We have rolling terrain with a couple steep places, plus a ditch in which we place brush. I'll tell you it's comforting to be able to "creep" to the edge without worrying about it rolling into the ditch when changing directions. The hydrostatic almost serves as a "dead man" switch - foot off the pedal and the tractor stops mostly. In addition (at least on mine NH and soon-to-come RK) you can have right foot on the hydro and the left on the brakes for pinpoint control. As to the power loss, check the requirements of the implements you will be using - for non-PTO ground-engaging implements (box scraper, 2-bottom plow, etc.) and loader work, weight and traction are more the issues. The biggest PTO issue for me is brush cutter and rear tiller - 40hp engine/33hp PTO on my NH has never been an issue for 72".

Weight and HP are not a problem for me on the RK55HC.

My two-cents.

 

[Pecan Farming]

As to precision. Not familiar with the RK pedal design. Can you run the hydro pedal with one foot and run both brake pedals with the other?

If not, a lot of precision is lost with hydro.

Yes, the RK55 has the forward/reverse pedals side by side, on the right side for the hydro. Both brake pedals are on the left side so you can creep up to something and slightly hold the brakes for exact stopping. But like Markie61 said the hydro is sort of a "dead man" when you remove your foot it stops. For doing really scary stuff like he described worrying about going over the edge of something you can put it in low range and select the most sensitive hydro setting (it has three). Then when you release the pedal it stops even faster. Just don't forget and leave it on the most sensitive setting if you are traveling at anything faster than a slow walk or when you remove your foot it will jolt you forward when you take your foot off like you jammed on the brakes. It stops just that fast. I usually run mine in the middle setting which seems pretty good for just about everything else. The lightest setting has too much coast to it for me. It really does come down to personal preference and I am not selling my Kubota M4800 gear any time soon. I still use it for some things like to run my tree shaker.

 

[gunny0628]

Yes, the RK55 has the forward/reverse pedals side by side, on the right side for the hydro. Both brake pedals are on the left side so you can creep up to something and slightly hold the brakes for exact stopping. But like Markie61 said the hydro is sort of a "dead man" when you remove your foot it stops. For doing really scary stuff like he described worrying about going over the edge of something you can put it in low range and select the most sensitive hydro setting (it has three). Then when you release the pedal it stops even faster. Just don't forget and leave it on the most sensitive setting if you are traveling at anything faster than a slow walk or when you remove your foot it will jolt you forward when you take your foot off like you jammed on the brakes. It stops just that fast. I usually run mine in the middle setting which seems pretty good for just about everything else. The lightest setting has too much coast to it for me. It really does come down to personal preference and I am not selling my Kubota M4800 gear any time soon. I still use it for some things like to run my tree shaker.

On the hydro can you shift the low medium and high as you’re moving?

 

[gunny0628]

I hate to weigh in on this since I have been listening to the arguments of gear vs. hydrostatic on these forums for 20 years. But...

It all depends on how you will use the tractor and the terrain you have. We have rolling terrain with a couple steep places, plus a ditch in which we place brush. I'll tell you it's comforting to be able to "creep" to the edge without worrying about it rolling into the ditch when changing directions. The hydrostatic almost serves as a "dead man" switch - foot off the pedal and the tractor stops mostly. In addition (at least on mine NH and soon-to-come RK) you can have right foot on the hydro and the left on the brakes for pinpoint control. As to the power loss, check the requirements of the implements you will be using - for non-PTO ground-engaging implements (box scraper, 2-bottom plow, etc.) and loader work, weight and traction are more the issues. The biggest PTO issue for me is brush cutter and rear tiller - 40hp engine/33hp PTO on my NH has never been an issue for 72".

Weight and HP are not a problem for me on the RK55HC.

My two-cents.

So I shouldn’t notice any real HP issues on the PTO or drivetrain with the 55hp while operating a 72” finish mower or 72” brush cutter?