Shuttle Shift or Hydrostatic.....

[gunny0628]

I hate to weigh in on this since I have been listening to the arguments of gear vs. hydrostatic on these forums for 20 years. But...

It all depends on how you will use the tractor and the terrain you have. We have rolling terrain with a couple steep places, plus a ditch in which we place brush. I'll tell you it's comforting to be able to "creep" to the edge without worrying about it rolling into the ditch when changing directions. The hydrostatic almost serves as a "dead man" switch - foot off the pedal and the tractor stops mostly. In addition (at least on mine NH and soon-to-come RK) you can have right foot on the hydro and the left on the brakes for pinpoint control. As to the power loss, check the requirements of the implements you will be using - for non-PTO ground-engaging implements (box scraper, 2-bottom plow, etc.) and loader work, weight and traction are more the issues. The biggest PTO issue for me is brush cutter and rear tiller - 40hp engine/33hp PTO on my NH has never been an issue for 72".

Weight and HP are not a problem for me on the RK55HC.

My two-cents.

I’m going to be mowing 7 acres with a brush cutter and finish mower. Some smaller work with box blade and blade. And then loader work moving manure from one pile to another. I’ll be making a shooting berm. And moving and clearing deadfall trees and brush with the grapple. The loader is 72” and the grapple is 60”. The brush cutter and mower are 72”.

 

[k0ua]

She said that;

1. It痴 $2,000 cheaper for shuttle
2. I could turn tighter and go slower with more responsiveness
3. It would be easier on mowing to find a better speed

Thoughts?

UH..... 2 and 3 are just the opposite of true.

 

[k0ua]

I used to have a saying that I coined myself. I didn't set well with some folks, but I pretty much still believe it is correct. "If you have to ask, you need a hydro"

Here is my thinking on the validity of that statement. If you are an experienced tractor user, and have used various transmissions over the years including all of the variations of the shuttle from the unsynchronized ones up to the Kubota Glideshift which is an extremely complicated, but easy to use and apparently very reliable transmission, then you would not ask. You would KNOW which transmission you needed. But since you have to ask, that means you do not know. And since you do not know, you may or may not be capable right out of the gate of taking the care that is needed for long clutch life. Clutches are fairly easily ruined by novice operators. Hydro machines are bullet proof from novice operators.

Now I could be full of "beans" or something else, but this is what I think.

I think if you make a lot of directional changes as in loader/grapple work of any kind, anyone novice or no will profit from a hydro machine. If you plow in straight lines and rarely change directions or need to vary speed much you will profit from sort of gear machine of which the shuttle tries to improve on maneuverability and more rapid directional changes, but is still basically a gear machine. A mechanical shuttle where you have to clutch all the time to change direction and change gears would be JUST about the last transmission in the world I would choose.
From what you have said your uses are, you need a hydro in the worse way.

As for the dealers recommendations about moving slow and creeping and control and precision, I can tell she has never operated either tractor, or has the qualities of both VERY confused.

As you can tell I have strong opinions, and you may take them or leave them, but this is what I think. I wish you well on what ever you choose.
James

 

[gunny0628]

I used to have a saying that I coined myself. I didn't set well with some folks, but I pretty much still believe it is correct. "If you have to ask, you need a hydro"

Here is my thinking on the validity of that statement. If you are an experienced tractor user, and have used various transmissions over the years including all of the variations of the shuttle from the unsynchronized ones up to the Kubota Glideshift which is an extremely complicated, but easy to use and apparently very reliable transmission, then you would not ask. You would KNOW which transmission you needed. But since you have to ask, that means you do not know. And since you do not know, you may or may not be capable right out of the gate of taking the care that is needed for long clutch life. Clutches are fairly easily ruined by novice operators. Hydro machines are bullet proof from novice operators.

Now I could be full of "beans" or something else, but this is what I think.

I think if you make a lot of directional changes as in loader/grapple work of any kind, anyone novice or no will profit from a hydro machine. If you plow in straight lines and rarely change directions or need to vary speed much you will profit from sort of gear machine of which the shuttle tries to improve on maneuverability and more rapid directional changes, but is still basically a gear machine. A mechanical shuttle where you have to clutch all the time to change direction and change gears would be JUST about the last transmission in the world I would choose.
From what you have said your uses are, you need a hydro in the worse way.

As for the dealers recommendations about moving slow and creeping and control and precision, I can tell she has never operated either tractor, or has the qualities of both VERY confused.

As you can tell I have strong opinions, and you may take them or leave them, but this is what I think. I wish you well on what ever you choose.
James

Good stuff and I appreciate your directness. I owned a gear tractor before ‘78 Ford. No loader. Only PTO. And yeah you’re opinions are strong, just shows commitment.

Thanks again.

 

[cdb2]

On the hydro can you shift the low medium and high as youæ±*e moving?

You can change the sensitivity mode on the go, yes. It's a rocker switch left side of the console.

 

[Qapla]

This may help explain why Hydro can be so precise ...

On the gear, in addition to how you shift from forward to reverse, the speed is controlled by pressing the accelerator pedal (I won't call it a "gas" pedal since the tractor is diesel) and shifting is done with your hand.

With any of the HST tractors I have used, speed and direction is determined by pressing the pedal(s) in the direction you wish to go since the engine speed is constant and set by a throttle. Your hands are free to drive and operate the loader or other equipment levers.

I have used plain gear, shuttle and HST - I'll take the HST for all-purpose tractor work any day.

 

[davrow]

One very minor point: when using my forks for pallet work, I have to stand up to see the fork points. I can still operate the joystick and HST pedal while doing this. I would not be able to clutch.

 

[BRMyers]

On the hydro can you shift the low medium and high as youæ±*e moving?

When you get your manual, check your manual. Kubota manual states when shifting from L-M-H the tractor needs to be completely stopped. The Hi-Low can be shifted while moving (this is Kubota HST+ transmission).

 

[cdb2]

When you get your manual, check your manual. Kubota manual states when shifting from L-M-H the tractor needs to be completely stopped. The Hi-Low can be shifted while moving (this is Kubota HST+ transmission).

That's true on the RK as well for shifting the hydro range.

 

[cdb2]

One very minor point: when using my forks for pallet work, I have to stand up to see the fork points. I can still operate the joystick and HST pedal while doing this. I would not be able to clutch.

That's a good point. I do the same thing when using the forks.

 

[cdb2]

This may help explain why Hydro can be so precise ...

On the gear, in addition to how you shift from forward to reverse, the speed is controlled by pressing the accelerator pedal (I won't call it a "gas" pedal since the tractor is diesel) and shifting is done with your hand.

With any of the HST tractors I have used, speed and direction is determined by pressing the pedal(s) in the direction you wish to go since the engine speed is constant and set by a throttle. Your hands are free to drive and operate the loader or other equipment levers.

I have used plain gear, shuttle and HST - I'll take the HST for all-purpose tractor work any day.

I don't know how common it is on other brands but the RK55 also has an auto-throttle switch which controls the engine RPM in proportion to how hard the hydro pedal is pushed. It's pretty handy when you are doing a lot of stop and go or don't need much speed on the hydraulics.

 

[gunny0628]

Gotta learn somehow. And how about, it’s never too late to start.

 

[Pecan Farming]

When you get your manual, check your manual. Kubota manual states when shifting from L-M-H the tractor needs to be completely stopped. The Hi-Low can be shifted while moving (this is Kubota HST+ transmission).

On the RK55 the HI-Medium-Low Range is a gear shift (real gears) and the tractor needs to be stopped to shift between them. Don't let this confuse you on a hydro. Once you have selected the range you want you use the pedals to move the tractor. Forward/Reverse and control the travel speed by how far you press the pedal. Pressing the pedal more will give more ground speed for the given range you have selected and rpm on the engine. Medium range is the most useful range for just about everything. Hi range is good for smooth road travel. Low range is used when you really want to get maximum push force. I can spin all 4 tires on sod in low range with the differential locked. That is a lot of push force and I bent my bucket in the middle messing around with a stump doing that so be careful!
The response switch for the hydro controls how fast the transmission reacts to the pedal being pushed and released, it is a rocker switch and can be switched at any time.

 

[TripleR]

Gotta learn somehow. And how about, it’s never too late to start.

Ain't that the truth, my father in law never used or owned a tractor until his mid 60s when he retired and bought two farms. He had to learn on his own as he wouldn't listen to me. It cost him $$$$$$$$$$$ as he bought the wrong tractor twice and had to buy back a trade in. "Junior, you better hang onto that open station 375." Junior, oh **** what do I need with two tractors?" A week later they brought it back.

We have dents, scars etc. scattered around, but he really got good; put LOTS of hours in.

 

[k0ua]

I don't know how common it is on other brands but the RK55 also has an auto-throttle switch which controls the engine RPM in proportion to how hard the hydro pedal is pushed. It's pretty handy when you are doing a lot of stop and go or don't need much speed on the hydraulics.

It is becoming more common across brand lines.

 

[BRMyers]

It is becoming more common across brand lines.

The Kubota Grand series has the auto-throttle.

 

[k0ua]

The Kubota Grand series has the auto-throttle.

They or perhaps JD I think were the firsts. Now it is filtering down the brands.

 

[LouNY]

I'm from the other camp, I have two hydrostatic transmissions one is in the little JD 110 lawn mower the other is in my Kubota F2000 mower I like them in the lawn stuff even though the one in the JD is a weak kneed piece of crap.
All the tractors I run are all different types and styles 5 are full powershift and couple with power shuttles and the power shift, the others are a variety of conventional geared units from 4 speeds with a high low range to five speeds and eight speeds.
The full powershift with the power shuttle is in my mind the best transmission and they get used for a large amount of loader work, loading feed daily in the winter for several hundred head of cows.
My main yard and driveway tractor is a four speed three range transmission with a power shuttle it also sees a lot of loader and back or front blade work and brush hogging, once in a great while I would rather have a hydro but that's rare and far between.

My personal preferences and these are just that;
1) power shift with a power shuttle
2) geared with a power shuttle
3) synchronized mechanical shuttle with a geared transmission
4) would be a hydro
5) non-synchronized shuttle
6) conventional geared

just my :2cents:

 

[4570Man]

I used to have a saying that I coined myself. I didn't set well with some folks, but I pretty much still believe it is correct. "If you have to ask, you need a hydro"

Here is my thinking on the validity of that statement. If you are an experienced tractor user, and have used various transmissions over the years including all of the variations of the shuttle from the unsynchronized ones up to the Kubota Glideshift which is an extremely complicated, but easy to use and apparently very reliable transmission, then you would not ask. You would KNOW which transmission you needed. But since you have to ask, that means you do not know. And since you do not know, you may or may not be capable right out of the gate of taking the care that is needed for long clutch life. Clutches are fairly easily ruined by novice operators. Hydro machines are bullet proof from novice operators.

Now I could be full of "beans" or something else, but this is what I think.

I think if you make a lot of directional changes as in loader/grapple work of any kind, anyone novice or no will profit from a hydro machine. If you plow in straight lines and rarely change directions or need to vary speed much you will profit from sort of gear machine of which the shuttle tries to improve on maneuverability and more rapid directional changes, but is still basically a gear machine. A mechanical shuttle where you have to clutch all the time to change direction and change gears would be JUST about the last transmission in the world I would choose.
From what you have said your uses are, you need a hydro in the worse way.

As for the dealers recommendations about moving slow and creeping and control and precision, I can tell she has never operated either tractor, or has the qualities of both VERY confused.

As you can tell I have strong opinions, and you may take them or leave them, but this is what I think. I wish you well on what ever you choose.
James

I agree with that. When I’m mowing I often slow down for a thick place and or abruptly slow down for a rough spot. Neither are easily done with a shuttle. I just sent the better part of the day spreading dirt around a house so water runs away. I could easily run with an inch of the house with the HST skid steer. Have fun doing that with a clutch. My backhoe is also very precise movement. But in simple terms it’s really an automatic transmission with manually selected gears.

 

[ovrszd]

Yup - do it all the time on my NHTC40D.

But how bout on your RK?