Simplicity Zero Turns?

[Hexa Fox]

Hey guys, I assure you this is different from my last post. So I mow commercially with a special order Ferris IS2100z. The only difference is it has a 52" rather than a 60". It has been an awesome machine. Anyway, I have been looking for a backup mower for some time now. I have always wanted to get a Simplicity zero because they are the same and have a strip roller on the deck. I am specifically looking for a Citation or Cobalt. I have been doing extensive research, such as whether or not the blades on my 52" are interchangeable with the other 52" decks. This would be huge for me because I have a huge collection of blades laying around.

1.) I have never purchased anything used for this amount of money rather than a vehicle. I from time to time see a lot of good deals. Have any of you guys ever bought anything like this and totally regretted it from something you did not see until you got it home or notice after using it for awhile? This is my biggest concern.

2.) I keep seeing this Briggs and Strattion 27HP mentioned on the machines this size. Some say it is EFI while others say it is not. Mine has a 34HP Vanguard that still runs and sounds so nice. The Simplicity equivalent is putting a little cheaper hardware on them. The transaxles and engine are all a step down. However, if they are similar to my Ferris it would definitely be nice to have as a backup machine.

I have also been considering a 60" because I do have some larger yards but there are places between fences, sheds, patios, landscape beds and the like where I can just barely fit my 52". So the way I see it upgrading the deck is only going to add more trimming for me. One gripe that I do have with this machine is that since the deck is smaller it does not stick out beyond the frame of the unit at all. It makes cutting around objects not fun but overall it definitely keeps my @$$ in the seat more, which I enjoy.

This is something I was looking at for instance. Just I think this guy is way overpriced. These units frequently sell for about $8,000 and that is what he is asking. So not sure if he spent too much or just starting high.

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[RjCorazza]

That looks like a nice machine, and I can't imagine an owner could do too much to it in 6 hours of use. I didn't know there was a relationship between Ferris and Simplicity, but have always thought they were both quality machines.
Why not just get another Ferris and use your current mower as the backup?

Drifting off topic, but I switched over to diesel mowers about 12 years ago. The fuel handling is much easier, and I use about 1/2 the fuel than with a gas mower. Both my Kubota diesels use between 0.75 - 1.0 gallons per hour.

 

[Hexa Fox]

That looks like a nice machine, and I can't imagine an owner could do too much to it in 6 hours of use. I didn't know there was a relationship between Ferris and Simplicity, but have always thought they were both quality machines.
Why not just get another Ferris and use your current mower as the backup?

Drifting off topic, but I switched over to diesel mowers about 12 years ago. The fuel handling is much easier, and I use about 1/2 the fuel than with a gas mower. Both my Kubota diesels use between 0.75 - 1.0 gallons per hour.

I always wanted a Grasshopper D900. They are suppose to be much more stable on hills. Just they are expensive and much larger than a traditional zero turn. The size of the mower is definitely an issue for me. This Grasshopper machine not only sticks out on the back but basically has the mower deck out front. The look like super nice machines just I am worried about the size.

For years I have thought about hiring an employee and getting a larger mower for some of the jobs I do. Then have the larger machine on the wide open area and the smaller machine on the areas I cannot easily fit on. Just never did it. I figure I would have to add even more work to support and employee and not even sure I am ready for that.

Anyway, yes Briggs and Stratton owns Simplicity, Ferris and Snapper mowers. You will notice they all pretty much look the same. The only noticeable difference between the Ferris and Simplicity machines is that the Simplicity machines come standard with a stripe roller, which I really want. I have even looked into getting on and installing it onto my Ferris. I just do not know if they are compatible. The major reason they do it is because Ferris is geared toward commercial and they figure there is less chance the rubber flap they installed will get destroyed. The roller may be a different story but I would still like to try.

It is a nice machine but he is asking way too much for it. I sent him a message because I am interested but he will probably not come down enough. I also just found a post where he listed it last year as well. Like I said, you can pretty much by them new for that price. I would also like feedback on the Briggs engine that is on it. I remember when I was searching for a mower there were only a couple engines that were 'reliable'. I was sold on a Briggs Vanguard, Kohler Command, or a Kawasaki. At the time people were really after the Vanguard so that is what I wanted. I had heard that Kohler was doing some really shady stuff at the time but apparently it had nothing to do with the Command line, only lines like the Courage. Anyway it turned me off to Kohler. It is pretty much the same reason I wanted no other Briggs engine other than the Vanguard.

 

[Oldstuff]

I can only tell you I have a 2003 Simplicity ZT, it has been a great and reliable mower. It is only a 44 incher and I mow a 1/2 acre yard.

 

[stevem5215]

I have two Simplicity's. A ZT2500 which is a front suspension only and 48" mower deck with ZT2800 transmissions and a 24hp Briggs engine. It's been good except for a minor bar that broke underneath and I had it welded up and reinforced. But it's lighter duty and while it has a fab deck the machine isn't heavy enough IMO. Which brings me to my other Simplicity which is the Citation XL with a 27hp 61" fab deck with ZT3400 transmissions. That is one heck of a machine and is super heavy duty and it weighs a good amount so it handles things much better like the ride comfort and traction on hillside (I cut with it sideways on hills without issue compared to the lighter and scary on hillsides ZT2500). I would highly recommend the Citation and the full suspension like Ferris is just as good. On Ferris though they even now offer a gas upgrade shock suspension and it's almost identical to what's used on snowmobiles now. And they provide a great ride on them so a grass machine would benefit too I'm sure.

 

[Hexa Fox]

I have two Simplicity's. A ZT2500 which is a front suspension only and 48" mower deck with ZT2800 transmissions and a 24hp Briggs engine. It's been good except for a minor bar that broke underneath and I had it welded up and reinforced. But it's lighter duty and while it has a fab deck the machine isn't heavy enough IMO. Which brings me to my other Simplicity which is the Citation XL with a 27hp 61" fab deck with ZT3400 transmissions. That is one heck of a machine and is super heavy duty and it weighs a good amount so it handles things much better like the ride comfort and traction on hillside (I cut with it sideways on hills without issue compared to the lighter and scary on hillsides ZT2500). I would highly recommend the Citation and the full suspension like Ferris is just as good. On Ferris though they even now offer a gas upgrade shock suspension and it's almost identical to what's used on snowmobiles now. And they provide a great ride on them so a grass machine would benefit too I'm sure.

Thanks for stopping by. This was pretty much what I was looking for. Can you tell me is your Citation EFI and how many hours do you have on it?

 

[stevem5215]

Mine is manual choke. My ZT2500 is EFI and automatic choke. After sitting all winter the easiest way I've found to start it without turning it over a million times is to take a shot of ether and blast it into the intake area. It will start immediately then without the 3 minutes of whrrr whrrr whrrr on the key. I think the fuel drains back on that mower after a long period of not using it.

edit: The Citation XL has around 300 hours on it. About 100 a year for my uses.

 

[Carl_NH]

The Citation on Facebook at $8K is a bit high and it states 54" deck, but its either a 52 or 61" and looking at the 2023 61" they list at $9900 so $8K is in the ballpark with only 6 hours. Also it has the same suspension as the Ferris and the 3400 transmission.

I checked the Ferris ISX 52" series and they are around $11500 now, so $8K looks pretty good for a very similar machine.

 

[Hexa Fox]

Mine is manual choke. My ZT2500 is EFI and automatic choke. After sitting all winter the easiest way I've found to start it without turning it over a million times is to take a shot of ether and blast it into the intake area. It will start immediately then without the 3 minutes of whrrr whrrr whrrr on the key. I think the fuel drains back on that mower after a long period of not using it.

edit: The Citation XL has around 300 hours on it. About 100 a year for my uses.

I know you did not ask for my opinion but personally I am against ether. It was designed for use with diesel engines and I know a lot of diesel owners are against it as well. I have the same trouble starting my Ferris first time each season. What makes it easier is using a quality fuel stabilizer and actually running the machine awhile before storing it. So the fuel is in the carburetor or injectors before storage. My dealer told me to start it up at least once in the Winter season and let it run a little while. I do not remember to always do this but I get them started in a minute or two when the first of the season rolls around. Then I let them run a little while, charge the battery and then I change the engine oil. Just my two cents.

The Citation on Facebook at $8K is a bit high and it states 54" deck, but its either a 52 or 61" and looking at the 2023 61" they list at $9900 so $8K is in the ballpark with only 6 hours. Also it has the same suspension as the Ferris and the 3400 transmission.

I checked the Ferris ISX 52" series and they are around $11500 now, so $8K looks pretty good for a very similar machine.

In any case, he has not messaged me back. It looks like a guy who does not use Facebook very often. I still think he is somewhat high on his price. He says he wants to trade for a farm tractor. My neighbor has a Ford 1700 for sale, so I thought maybe in a perfect world I could get my hands on it and trade it for the Simplicity. He has a lot of implements for the tractor though, I think seven or eight. If I made that happen I would definitely want to be coming out on top of that deal if you get me.

Anyway I know prices on things have gone up and this Citation XT is actually the old Ferris IS2100z suspension. The older Citation is the smaller I think IS800z This one is exactly like my Ferris frame except it has smaller transaxles and engine is not a Vanguard. If you check this out you can see a dealer had a brand new one for $9,000 that was EFI. The dealer told me it sold. I also saw the 54" and knew it was a mistake. I don't think the Briggs machines (Snapper, Simplicity Ferris) has had a 54" for a very long time.

I asked my dealer about it a few days ago and he said they are really nice machines but he said the downfall for me is that I would notice it. He made a great point, in saying that I will be getting on a machine that feels identical to my Ferris but is going to be slower and weaker than mine. He said they are definitely nice machines but he said I needed to keep that in mind.

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[Carl_NH]

I think a trade deal (your local Ford 1700 for the Citation XT in PA) is just a problem waiting to happen. There are so many variables in this match up to go wrong, unless you get things really clear up front.

A comment about the dealer "you will not be happy with the Citation XT vs Ferris) of course your dealer wants to sell you a new Ferris, so maybe drive the Citation XT and decide yourself.

On the other hand, you mow for money, and if you are sitting in the seat, getting the latest Ferris ISX 52" with the Kawasaki EFI with the high back suspension seat might cost you $3K more than the used Citation XT. but in the long haul that's only a few $ an hour amortized over the life of the machine.