Skidding winch - need bigger tractor?

[Dead Horse]

Sorry, I need to be more precise......

The device with universal joints that connects your tractor PTO shaft to the winch input shaft. Some of these come with a slip clutch at one end......

It will look like a steel donut near the universal joint of one end of the shaft. My bush hogs all have them and they are often found on implemets subject to shock (or otherwise there is a shear pin mechanizm. My snow blower and tiller have the shear pin design.)

 

[easygo]

dstig1,
My neighbor uses his winch on a Deere 790. The tractor is 27hp if I remember correctly. Sometimes he lands it to his brother-in-law who puts it onto a 60hp tractor. That winch is fantastic.

You either have a slip clutch (neighbor's winch does not) or it looks like something with the PTO engagement mechanism is not quite all right. Just like in any manual vehicle that has the clutch on the way out. You can accelerate slowly and drive it down the flat highway at 70mph. But if you try to take off up a hill in 1st gear you might notice some slipping after the clutch has been let up. How many hours on your machine?

Ps. I found a picture of a slip clutch. It is often used on rototillers and is on the implement side of the PTO shaft.

 

[MarkV]

Dstig1 I have never heard of a PTO shaft that stopped turning without stalling the tractor. It just isn't designed to do that as a way of saying you need more horsepower. The safeties are designed to be in the system before the PTO clutch you refer to by means of a shear bolt or slip clutch. They should fail before something internal on the tractor does. Something doesn't sound right from what I read. Proceed with caution before finding the answer.

MarkV

 

[EE_Bota]

If you have a service manual, see how the pto relief valve is set, and check it's setting.

 

[rbargeron]

.......LOL! I have no spring scale that can take a couple tons, that's for sure!.....

Aw...too bad, just when this thread was headed into Darwin Award territory !

MarkV is right about proceeding with caution, but I don't think there is anything wrong with your tractor.

From your posted parts diagram your tractor has an independent pto, meaning it has its own clutch, in this case hydraulic. Part 20 is a hydraulic clutch pack. It runs submerged in oil and has serrated bronze clutch disks inside it - a stack of them. If it slips, it saves the rest of the power train from momentary overload. If it slips too much theoretically it wears a little - but at a much slower rate than a regular dry disk clutch. Wet clutches last indefinitely unless somebody makes a point of abusing it until it gets so hot the oil burns - nothing you will ever do. Take care, Dick B

p.s. hope you can stop worrying and get some sleep

 

[simonmeridew]

did your tractor motor slow down before the clutch slipped?
something sounds wrong.
My winch will stall my L4400--44 horsepower-- if I get a hangup. But I really have to be yanking on the cord of my farmi 351 and admittedly the tractor wasn't at full throttle, but well along the power curve. Maybe the gear drive is different.
simonmeridew

 

[dstig1]

Dstig1 I have never heard of a PTO shaft that stopped turning without stalling the tractor. It just isn't designed to do that as a way of saying you need more horsepower. The safeties are designed to be in the system before the PTO clutch you refer to by means of a shear bolt or slip clutch. They should fail before something internal on the tractor does. Something doesn't sound right from what I read. Proceed with caution before finding the answer.

MarkV

I hear ya. Not having used one of these before, I was unsure if the PTO shaft stalling was normal or not in an overload situation. I am catching on that it is NOT!

I am familiar with the slip clutch like easygo posted. There is NO slip clutch on the PTO, either on the tractor or the winch. Besides, even if there was, the PTO shaft would still be rotating...that's why it's called a slip clutch...

If you have a service manual, see how the pto relief valve is set, and check it's setting.

Don't have one yet, just the parts list. I was planning to get one, but didn't think I'd need it this soon. But looking at the parts list, I'm not sure there is a relief valve.

MarkV is right about proceeding with caution, but I don't think there is anything wrong with your tractor.

From your posted parts diagram your tractor has an independent pto, meaning it has its own clutch, in this case hydraulic. Part 20 is a hydraulic clutch pack. It runs submerged in oil and has serrated bronze clutch disks inside it - a stack of them. If it slips, it saves the rest of the power train from momentary overload. If it slips too much theoretically it wears a little - but at a much slower rate than a regular dry disk clutch. Wet clutches last indefinitely unless somebody makes a point of abusing it until it gets so hot the oil burns - nothing you will ever do. Take care, Dick B

p.s. hope you can stop worrying and get some sleep

Well, Dick, I'm not sure if I agree that everything is working fine anymore... I am getting a consensus that the engine should stall, not the PTO shaft. That tells me something is wrong. I understand the principles of a wet clutch and that it SHOULD be very durable, but maybe the OP was beating the tar out of it. If he was, it must have been a pretty selective hatred of PTOs as the rest of the tractor is in very good shape.

I'm not really worrying, but I sure would like everything working correctly...

BTW, the tractor has about 960 hrs on it. The 2nd owner (who I bought it from) said he put 200-250 of that on it. I've put 15-20 on it myself.

Thanks again,
Dave

 

[EE_Bota]

Don't have one yet, just the parts list. I was planning to get one, but didn't think I'd need it this soon. But looking at the parts list, I'm not sure there is a relief valve.

Thanks again,
Dave

I cannot say conclusively it will have a relief valve, but it will most likely have one for the PTO circuit. That is what I would look at first, since you suspect a problem.

 

[easygo]

Dstig1,

You should call a dealer and tell them what is going on. It sounds like you need a professional fix it guy to settle this question. I - for one - am very curious if the PTO on the Grand-L's have this built in protection or there is something out of whack on your machine. Is it adjustable like some other clutches?

 

[dstig1]

The PTO hydraulic supply is part of the HST circuit, as you can see in the diagram. That round valve in the middle is the PTO clutch valve (it says see Fig E126xx on it). That valve is actually on the far side of the tranny housing, which isn't clear by the illustration. I see no relief valve or anything, just a straight feed from the HST tranny filter on the left side of the tractor with hard connections everywhere. Maybe there is one somewhere else in the HST, but it sure isn't easy to find in the diagrams.

And yes, I have checked fluid levels and they are all full, and fluids are very clear. The previous owner had the dealer change fluids just 30 hrs ago or so (last fall).

I think I will check the main clutch. I think that if the main clutch was slipping it could do the same thing, but I have seen no driveability issues that might indicate it is slipping. Of course I have nothing to compare it to... But the main clutch is adjustable, whereas the PTO clutch does not appear to be. Worth checking at least...

-Dave