Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed.

/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed. #61  
My current favorite brand for toilets is the Jacuzzi brand. This is the only brand that I've installed that I never hear any complaints from my clients, and I install quite a few toilets every year. I have a Crane commercial toilet in my house and it's nothing to brag about. One day I'll replace it with a Jacuzzi one. I've read great reviews of Toto, especially about their glazing process and how nothing sticks to it, but the few that I've seen in higher end homes haven't impressed me.

Eddie
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed.
  • Thread Starter
#62  
I went to the cabin yesterday. Toilet flushing a little sluggish but everything going down. I plunge it a few times and then go into the attic with the shop vac with the hose on the vacuum outlet and blow out the vent stack. Toilet flushes fine all day long. Yee ha. Get up this morning and it would barely flush. The dang thing has got a demon. I think an exorcist would be more handy than a plumber.

Anyway, next weekend I'm going to buy a new toilet and take it down there. Pull the old one and see what I can find. If I find a clear cut cause I'll put the old one back and return the new one. If I find nothing, I'll put the new one in.

If everything between the hole and the floor and the septic tank is normal and the new one does not flush right I'm out of ideas.
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed. #63  
Have you checked the level of the pipes running away from it.? Just a small drop is all that is needed but sometimes the floor sag (imperceptible to most) can cause this too. Or just a bit of build up in the lines etc.


Mansfield Brand of toilets also has 100% glazed traps and updated low flush or pressure flush designs along with dual flush units. I worked there for 4 years, got a couple stashed for NEW installs when I need them ;)

Mark
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed. #64  
You could have a water pool blocking your vent?

I know when we bought this house, the toilet worked fine, but the bathroom sink and tub would not drain very fast in the winter. I finally figured out that the main vent for the sink and tub had not been secured very well and had slipped down about 2", which caused a pool of water to form in the pipe at the bend where it turned to go up. In winter, cold air would freeze the pool of water, blocking the vent. In summer, air could gurgle past the pool. I had to make a screw jack of sorts, and slowly lift the vent stack up over the course of a few week, so as not to crack the pipe. I'd just give it half a turn every day in the summer for a few weeks until it was raised back to a proper slope so water would run down the pipe instead of pooling in it.

Anyhow, just one more thing to think about.... check the slope of your pipes.
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed. #65  
Have you checked the level of the pipes running away from it.? Just a small drop is all that is needed but sometimes the floor sag (imperceptible to most) can cause this too. Or just a bit of build up in the lines etc.


Mansfield Brand of toilets also has 100% glazed traps and updated low flush or pressure flush designs along with dual flush units. I worked there for 4 years, got a couple stashed for NEW installs when I need them ;)

Mark

Well, it appears I was typing while you were replying! :laughing:
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed. #66  
Standard pipe pitch for drains is 1/8" per foot of run. So a 12' length of run should drop a total of 1-1/2" (1/8" X 12").
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed. #67  
Standard pipe pitch for drains is 1/8" per foot of run. So a 12' length of run should drop a total of 1-1/2" (1/8" X 12").

Don't you mean 12/16ths or 3/4's " ?
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed.
  • Thread Starter
#68  
I got the pitch of the main right. As mentioned, I put a full sized clean out at the end and I checked it, twice. Main line is clean as a whistle. The cabin is 10 years old now and other than the single episode with the Studor vent, all plumbing has worked perfectly until this. I'm not a plumber and I do not like plumbing but I spent a lot of time sketching, mocking up and then installing the DWV system. It was much harder than the supply side of the plumbing and I've been sort of proud that it worked at all, much less 10 years.:)

(Of course it seemed difficult to someone with no previous plumbing experience, but it is a very simple system: well, tank, water heater, one bathtub, one toilet, one bathroom sink, one kitchen sink.)
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed. #69  
Blocked stack vents also can cause problems.
Once found a vent that employed a lengthy lateral run that sloped wrong way and accumulated enough water that froze and prevented sink draining and toilet flushing.
Also found stack vents full of pine needles leaves etc.
When a toilet flushes it takes a big gulp of air for it to function properly. In winter the vent occasionally frosts itself closed.
Code actually calls for 2 stack vents in some areas.
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed.
  • Thread Starter
#71  
Vent stack, stack vent....that was the problem the first time, a few years ago, the rubber in the Studor vent got tacky and stuck closed. I've snaked this one and blown it out. When the toilet flushes and I put my hand over it there is good suction. So it can't be the vent stack.
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed. #72  
I got the pitch of the main right. As mentioned, I put a full sized clean out at the end and I checked it, twice. Main line is clean as a whistle. The cabin is 10 years old now and other than the single episode with the Studor vent, all plumbing has worked perfectly until this. I'm not a plumber and I do not like plumbing but I spent a lot of time sketching, mocking up and then installing the DWV system. It was much harder than the supply side of the plumbing and I've been sort of proud that it worked at all, much less 10 years.:)

(Of course it seemed difficult to someone with no previous plumbing experience, but it is a very simple system: well, tank, water heater, one bathtub, one toilet, one bathroom sink, one kitchen sink.)

Hey, you did it and it works. Feels good, don't it? :thumbsup:
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed. #73  
Standard pipe pitch for drains is 1/8" per foot of run. So a 12' length of run should drop a total of 1-1/2" (1/8" X 12").

.125" x 12 does equal 1.5"
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed.
  • Thread Starter
#75  
Problem solved. Mystery remains.

Pulled old toilet up. Main drain line below toilet completely clear. Install new toilet, a Kohler low flow deal, and it works perfectly. Take old toilet outside and look in the bottom of it and there is fresh toilet paper stuck there. Pull it out and don't see anything else. Curiosity gets the best of me and I bust it up with a hammer. More fresh toilet paper stuck in S pipe. S pipe surface is rough from mineral deposits. The only thing I can figure out is that toilet paper was catching on the rough surface of the S pipe. That is why you could plunge and get it to work a few time and then it would back up again.

Anyway, all is well at this point. New toilet cost $150 and was well worth it.
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed. #76  
I read a review one time that said there are such big differences in every single toilet of just the same brand and model that it is just about impossible to give a valid review of them. The glazing process is more of an art then an exact science and two toilets sitting side by side, made the same day at the same place will perform differently because of the glazing process. Sounds like you might have had one of those toilets that didn't have the smoothest glazing possible on it and over time minerals built up on it.

Interesting results, thanks for sharing.

Eddie
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed. #77  
You must have had a toilet for greenies that don't use toilet paper. Leaves don't stick as bad going through the trap.

I bet you are glad that problem is solved.
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed. #78  
i just had same prob the toilet was less then ten yrs old i checked everything, our other bathroom toilet worked fine i changed the toilet prob solved tore the old toilet apart no clogs. im blaming it on the new toilets they are all plastic guts and are junk not dezined to last like the old ones .
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed. #79  
You must have had a toilet for greenies that don't use toilet paper. Leaves don't stick as bad going through the trap.

We were in China a month ago and the plumbing was interesting. ;):laughing:

The first part of the trip was an over night stay in a very nice hotel in Hong Kong before going to a part of China not seen by many westerners. The toilets in Hong Kong were interesting because they did not appear to have a water trap/S bend. Instead, the waste pipe went out the back of the toilet not down and the waste pipe was about 6 inches in diameter. When the toilet was flushed it used LOTS of water. The shower head was most certainly NOT low flow and it would fill the shower basin with water. The toilet and shower were really wasteful and the wife and I both commented on the water usage. Afterall, Waste Not Want Not. :laughing:

The hotels in China had sit down toilets thank goodness and the plumbing was about the same as in HK. Lots of water usage. Both hotels had TP. :thumbsup:

In mainland China you drink bottled or filtered water in SOME restaurants, you do not drink from the tap. The water from the plumbing was clear and did not stink but you did not take your chances. WeI did take a UV water purifier which we did not have to use but came close one night when we almost ran out of bottled water. They seem to have plenty of water just not clean enough to drink. Water in Hong Kong SHOULD be safe to drink but it depends on the plumbing system in the building which is usually age related. From what I could tell in the city we visited in mainland China, the water was from reservoirs in the mountains but I really don't know since we were in the Pearl river delta and there was huge amounts of water available but that water was NASTY! There are quite a few reservoirs but there does not seem to be many or large enough to serve the population.

I don't remember seeing a public water fountain during our trip.

The boat yard we were visiting had western sit down toilets but also squat toilets. The squat toilets were in out houses that were built along with the boat yard in the 50's. All toilets flushed into the river. The boat yard is next to a ship yard that are all carved out of the same facility that was built in the 50's. The ship yard is building and working on ships that are 200-300 feet long best I can tell. Ships used to haul gravel, sand, dirt, concrete, etc. We saw hundreds of these ships and they have to be part of the huge air pollution problem. One day I was on the boats we are interested in buying in the future and there was a huge smell of chemicals from the shipyard. It was so bad we went down below in one of the boats we were looking at to avoid the stench. That stench lasted for quite some time and I can't tell if they were using the chemical on a ship that just upstream or if they had dumped the stuff in the river. :shocked:

We went to McDonalds for breakfast one morning. What is sad/funny is that we went to THREE McDonalds while in China. :laughing: This particular McDonalds was in a city and the McD's was in a shopping mall but the mall was multistory building. The bathroom had squat toilets and it was pretty nasty. No TP either. :shocked: China is pretty green TP wise! :laughing::laughing::laughing: The public restrooms we saw had employees to keep the bathrooms clean so the McD's bathroom was not filthy but the squat toilets were nasty. The cleaning lady came to clean which was something you would not see in the US, and while I don't understand any Chinese to speak of, I think she let loose a pretty good stream of well deserved cuss words at the mess she had to clean up. :eek:

We did see squat toilets for sale at a business and they seem to have an S trap but I was just walking by and did not stop to investigate. Funny thing is that they had several models of squat toilets and the only difference seemed to be the bumps and ridges built into the toilet to keep one from slipping. :rolleyes::shocked::laughing: The squat toilets did seem to be a standard size.

There was a traffic circle we would walk by going to/from the boatyard/hotel and parked around the circle were usually a few trade vans. These vans were about 1/3 to 1/2 the size of a US mini van and were owned by families of carpenters, electricians and plumbers. Phone numbers were on the vans so you called them and they showed up at your place to do the work. Nothing unusual about this except the families LIVED in the vans. :shocked: We walked by one evening and the families were all squatting on the side walk eating dinner. When we walked back past the vans a couple of hours later, the families were somehow IN the vans sleeping. :shocked: Best I could tell they went to the bathroom in the landscaping that just happened to be at the traffic circle :eek: Saw more than one guy in the bushes. :shocked:

Having said all of that we never got sick. :thumbsup:

Surprised how much we noticed about Chinese plumbing. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Later,
Dan
 
/ Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed. #80  
we are trying to save water with the 1.3 gal flush but we have to flush 3 times anyway and the new toilets still clog.they should have no bend just a trap when you flush the trap opens and the whole load goes down water and all then it refiles for the next one.
 

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