Toilet Mystery

[N80]

I'll snake it before I pull it but it is flushing fine so I doubt that's it.

The more I look at this toilet the more certain I am that it is not a crack. As mentioned the 'S' pipe is a true 'S' and is completely out in the open underneath the toilet. I can see the whole thing; both sides. Any crack in the part of the 'S' pipe that holds water would be visible and leaking onto the floor.

At this moment I'm betting on a vent pipe issue but still not clear in my mind how that could be the case.

My wife, generally the wiser and more prudent of the two of us has recommended that I get over it and leave the thing alone since it is working properly and their are no obvious external leaks.

 

[ultrarunner]

Anyone remember the Leggs Stockings that came in a big plastic Easter Egg...

One of those went down a toilet and caused me a lot of stress... finally carried the toilet outside to the lawn and turned it on the side and used a Plumber Balloon on a garden hose and it popped out...

Kids!!!

 

[k0ua]

Have you tried a toilet snake? Maybe something got partially flushed and creating a siphon. I worked in a hospital maintenance department for 19 years found a lot of weird things happen.

Ah, like when you have a stoppage or partial stoppage in the S trap, the water in the bowl goes down slowly after a period of time. When you use the plunger and get what ever is in the S trap out everything works again...I can see that.

 

[ning]

The more I look at this toilet the more certain I am that it is not a crack. As mentioned the 'S' pipe is a true 'S' and is completely out in the open underneath the toilet. I can see the whole thing; both sides. Any crack in the part of the 'S' pipe that holds water would be visible and leaking onto the floor

If you look at the toilet test video previously posted, that toilet was determined to have a leak in *it's s-trap* -- as in, internal to the toilet. There's a leak inside the toilet, not in the plumbing below the toilet.

 

[jaxs]

N80,What you are not taking into consideration is that toilets are cast in 2 halves then joined before firing in a furnace. The crack is actually a manufacturing flaw running between sections of S trap. Does that help understand how crack can join upper and lower part of S trap?

 

[Frankenkubota]

Anyone remember the Leggs Stockings that came in a big plastic Easter Egg...

One of those went down a toilet and caused me a lot of stress... finally carried the toilet outside to the lawn and turned it on the side and used a Plumber Balloon on a garden hose and it popped out...

Kids!!!

my kid did the same thing with a wad of aluminum foil. He stole the last piece of pizza and was hiding the evidence.

 

[dougtrr2]

If the water is being "sucked out" as opposed to leaking out, could you wait until it is empty and then use smoke to verify? Seems like if there was enough suction to pull water out there would be enough suction to pull smoke too. It may not work, but it doesn't take any dismantling either.

As long as we are talking toilet related problems. I had a toilet that was not flushing right. It was very lethargic. Asked plumber friends and thought about it. Final solution - As some point the wife had used those wax based cakes that hung in the tank. Debris from those plugged up that water jet hole at that bottom of the bowl. Cleaned that out and then there was the extra surge that made things work right again. Hopefully, that might help someone else.

Doug in SW IA

 

[N80]

N80,What you are not taking into consideration is that toilets are cast in 2 halves then joined before firing in a furnace. The crack is actually a manufacturing flaw running between sections of S trap. Does that help understand how crack can join upper and lower part of S trap?

Yes, I understand that. I don't think I'm explaining how this toilet's 'S' pipe is constructed very well. I'll try to link to a picture so it might be clearer. But again, the top of the 'S' does not share a common wall with the lower part of the 'S'. The upper part of the 'S' holds the water. See below. The normal water line is marked in blue. The little bridge between the upper and lower parts (red arrow) is structural. The porcelin in the middle is just a thin layer( red squiggle). So if there was a crack in the upper pipe it would have to be in the floor of the upper 'S' pipe outlined in black. You can see that there is no way that it would communicate with the lower part and thus allow water exit the house via the drain pipe.

I hope the picture helps and I hope I'm thinking about this right.

 

[the old grind]

If the thin support boss was leaking the bowl would drain completely. Blue line indicates the 'trap weir', typically above '1/4' remaining level of that model. The pipe's vent may be blocked from something on a higher floor, perhaps at a tee between them. NA if this is the top floor. Snaking or cam from the roof may be indicated (love to) but not this time due to logistics.

This is a classic symptom of a vent blockage somewhere above the fixture and suction break to stop it. That would come when the water level is down to the top of the S pipe where it connects to the bowl, siphoning until then. It's so common in fast food store remodels where stuff had to fit the floor plan vs getting proper rework I bet every guy over 30 has seen it more than once where they eat out of paper.

If the bucket test sucks down like when flushing there may be a clog below and a blockage above. What kinda critters could cause something? Wind-blown plastic bag snags on vent? Hmm... btw, Why it doesn't drain faster is because vacuum accumulates until it breaks at the stool.

 

[MossRoad]

Yes, I understand that. I don't think I'm explaining how this toilet's 'S' pipe is constructed very well. I'll try to link to a picture so it might be clearer. But again, the top of the 'S' does not share a common wall with the lower part of the 'S'. The upper part of the 'S' holds the water. See below. The normal water line is marked in blue. The little bridge between the upper and lower parts (red arrow) is structural. The porcelin in the middle is just a thin layer( red squiggle). So if there was a crack in the upper pipe it would have to be in the floor of the upper 'S' pipe outlined in black. You can see that there is no way that it would communicate with the lower part and thus allow water exit the house via the drain pipe.

I hope the picture helps and I hope I'm thinking about this right.

View attachment 690283

Well, I've been watching "How toilets are made" videos all night... (thanks, by the way ) and your toilet was most likely cast in one piece, from the videos I watched.

That's gonna move me to the "a vent is probably blocked" team.

Good luck with your investigation.

 

[4570Man]

I don’t see how a blocked vent would be a constant thing. I could see that possibly ( not likely ) when you flushed another toilet there would be nothing to draw a steady vacuum and consistently drain the water. And a suction strong enough to drain the water should entirely drain the bowl and start sucking air which you’d hear.

 

[the old grind]

Venting is proscribed to keep keep effluent velocity up & prevent suction that can siphon traps. Drawn to some low point the trap will let air into the drain. There'll always be a bit of water left.

The trap is there to hold more water, up to it's weir (rt end of blue line) the vent is to keep it there by preventing pressure/vacuum excursions in the drain system.

btw, I have 1 & 1/2 bathrooms downstairs that I don't use, have to pour water into traps/stools a few times/year, esp if I get a whiff doing my washing. (house is pretty airtight gas heat & HW and can back draft thru' a dry trap) When I moved in someone had left a Solo cup in one vent stack, probably climbed the TV tower to watch fireworks next door from the roof. It was faded to a dull clay color and it took a while to notice it, probably when I watched Dave's show from the roof.

 

[two_bit_score]

Adjust the water spot?

 

[denchen]

My sort of logic....Water is going from the front of the bowl. Is it going over the floor...No. Is there any damp patches...No.. So it must be going down the back part of the U bend. [ruling out dogs]. Is it being sucked out by vent problems....If a vacuum was `pulling` it out, the vacuum would be lost as soon as the water level got to the bottom part of the U bend, and the water level would stay at that level. Is there a gap between the final water level and the bottom of the U bend, ..if yes the water is going straight from the front to the back by a `hole or crack`. That `hole or crack` being at the same level at what the water level settles.

 

[PILOON]

After a period of real cold weather my toilet will often act up.
I discovered that that it was caused by the stack vent freezing or choking caused by the escaping very humid air.
Sinks and showers would be unaffected but since toilets needed a sudden quantity of air a flush acted like a piston and would empty the sink P or S traps.
Naturally your nose let U know when the stack vent was frosted over.

OK, my home is DIY and I only learned later that code called for dual linked stack vents to alleviate that exact problem.
And, no, I left it as is, just open the window for the few times the problem occurs.

Makes me wonder if the OP's problem might not be linked to a stack venting issue.