Snow blower performance

[bigdeano]

Usually the higher horsepower tractors, using 1,000 rpm pto's, use implements which slow the pto speed down to around 540 rpm once the power is at the implement.

The higher pto speed is just to allow more power transfer without using a larger diameter pto shaft.

This chart from Normand Commercial product line for tractors up to 350 Hp shows all blower fans are running at 540 rpm.
A speed reducer is recommended on the blower to reduce the pto speed from 1,000 to 540.

Dave M7040

This is an interesting chart. I see the impellers run at 540, but they're about twice the diameter of the OP's. That would make a large difference in how far they throw. I wonder what the RPM of the impellers is on walk behind blowers with 20" impellers like the OP's, if there are any.

 

[Dave M7040]

This is an interesting chart. I see the impellers run at 540, but they're about twice the diameter of the OP's. That would make a large difference in how far they throw. I wonder what the RPM of the impellers is on walk behind blowers with 20" impellers like the OP's, if there are any.

Notice the other element of design as the tractor power goes up.

All the ones in the chart are 5 blades.

I looked on consumer reports web site for walk behind snow blower ratings and I hope some spec's.

Cub Cadet 3X30 HD Pro was the best but no where are there any spec's dealing with Fan parameters.

I never saw one that looked like it had a 20" dia fan.

I continue to maintain focusing on throwing distance is to have your attention on the wrong aspect of the blower's performance.

The designers of these machines spend serious engineering and performance testing time. Do you not think if they felt they would gain an edge on the competition by decreasing fan to drum clearance or by providing heavy rubber wipers on each fan blade they would to do.

The designers know how to make a blower throw a long distance and it is by discharging from the side of the drum.

If you can get your blower to throw further but the trade off is slower blowing speed because all your power is going to achieving distance, at the end of the work day you have not moved as much snow.

I don't know why but I suspect the owner with poor blower performance will find a chain and sprocket between his pto and the blower gear box.

Dave M7040

 

[Dave M7040]

could this be a similar brand blower? if so, maybe it helps us narrow down what brand the blower is,
notice the spout rotation in this Loftness (pic stolen from another BB)
View attachment 539824

I sent one of the owner's photos to Loftness to see if they can identify the blower.

Dave m7040

 

[dnw64]

I continue to maintain focusing on throwing distance is to have your attention on the wrong aspect of the blower's performance.

Depends what your needs are.

If you can get your blower to throw further but the trade off is slower blowing speed because all your power is going to achieving distance, at the end of the work day you have not moved as much snow.

Have you ever had to blow snow on a place where you have already cleared, only to have to blow it again? Or blow it on top of a place where you haven't yet cleared, and have to blow it twice?

Distance is relative, and "far enough" is going to be different for different people.

I agree that distance for distance sake is pointless

 

[Phil48]

Phil,

How big is your blower?
Looks like your fan is pretty decent size diameter! It should throw snow nice.
How many hp is your Kioti?

Hello Dan,

It's a 54'' MK Martin with a 20hp Kioti CK20, still in late february the pile is cumulating quite hight, sometime I have to get the Yamaha snowblower to extend to 30 feet...

Phil

 

[Dan33Klein]

Notice the other element of design as the tractor power goes up.

All the ones in the chart are 5 blades.

I looked on consumer reports web site for walk behind snow blower ratings and I hope some spec's.

Cub Cadet 3X30 HD Pro was the best but no where are there any spec's dealing with Fan parameters.

I never saw one that looked like it had a 20" dia fan.

I continue to maintain focusing on throwing distance is to have your attention on the wrong aspect of the blower's performance.

The designers of these machines spend serious engineering and performance testing time. Do you not think if they felt they would gain an edge on the competition by decreasing fan to drum clearance or by providing heavy rubber wipers on each fan blade they would to do.

The designers know how to make a blower throw a long distance and it is by discharging from the side of the drum.

If you can get your blower to throw further but the trade off is slower blowing speed because all your power is going to achieving distance, at the end of the work day you have not moved as much snow.

I don't know why but I suspect the owner with poor blower performance will find a chain and sprocket between his pto and the blower gear box.

Dave M7040

Thanks for the reply, maybe they can identity the blower
the impeller is is connected directly to the to the pto shaft via a straight through shaft in the gear box. It turns at a 1:1 ratio with the pto shaft. Therefore is spinning at 540 rpm with the pto.
There is no chain/sprockets.

 

[oosik]

Things to consider - -

- condition of the snow heavy snow requires more power

- your tractor is short on power for this blower ("blower bogs down when pushed into a pile") tractor should be able to maintain 540 pto rpm in all situations. Extreme situations - rock, stick, ice chunk - will shear a pin or spin the slip clutch.

- even without a "blade fix kit" this unit should "blow" the snow

IMHO - its a combination of the condition of the snow and the power of your tractor

Put a "blade kit" on the impeller and take smaller cuts with the unit. Try to maintain 540 pto rpm at all times.

 

[Dave M7040]

Dan

I contacted Loftness and provided a photo of your blower.

See if you can find the serial number where they suggest.

If you find it, I have a pdf parts manual they sent to me

Here is their reply.

Dave M7040


David
This is the closest book I could fine. your machine would have been built late 70ç—´ early 80ç—´. there should be a serial number wrote in welding on top of the gearbox plate.
If you need something for the blower contact us and we will see if we can come up with a updated part that would work on yours. then you will have to order it through one of our dealers.


Dave Fischer / Parts
Loftness Manufacturing
320-848-6266 ext. 121
Loftness | Loftness


A second response was received from another person at Loftness:

This is one of our Snow blower. It would have been built back in the late 70’s or 80’s. We have some parts books on our web site Loftness | Loftness go to the literature and manuals section. At the top you will see archived manuals go into that section and look at 30-H-24 model that will be the closest manual we have for your blower.

 

[Dan33Klein]

Dan

I contacted Loftness and provided a photo of your blower.

See if you can find the serial number where they suggest.

If you find it, I have a pdf parts manual they sent to me

Here is their reply.

Dave M7040


David
This is the closest book I could fine. your machine would have been built late 70ç—´ early 80ç—´. there should be a serial number wrote in welding on top of the gearbox plate.
If you need something for the blower contact us and we will see if we can come up with a updated part that would work on yours. then you will have to order it through one of our dealers.


Dave Fischer / Parts
Loftness Manufacturing
320-848-6266 ext. 121
Loftness | Loftness

Dave,
There are numbers welded on top of a plate. So That confirm it is a loftness blower.
I will get a picture/read the numbers after work.

 

[Dan33Klein]

Things to consider - -

- condition of the snow heavy snow requires more power

- your tractor is short on power for this blower ("blower bogs down when pushed into a pile") tractor should be able to maintain 540 pto rpm in all situations. Extreme situations - rock, stick, ice chunk - will shear a pin or spin the slip clutch.

- even without a "blade fix kit" this unit should "blow" the snow

IMHO - its a combination of the condition of the snow and the power of your tractor

Put a "blade kit" on the impeller and take smaller cuts with the unit. Try to maintain 540 pto rpm at all times.

Thanks for the reply,
I’m aware I’m short of power. But I was only feeding 5” of snow in the blower and could maintain 540 rpm at all times. Actually 582 rpm at full throttle. The tractor only bogged when I would shove it into a pile. If we were to get a 20” snow fall then I would take 1/2 to 3/4 swipe. Which it should handle no problem. That’s what is nice about pto rpm displaying in the dash. I can make sure I am maintaining at least 540 rpm.

 

[Reb954]

A few suggestions,

Before you add length to your impeller blades, check the impeller housing for wear, holes and such. You may need to reline the housing before adding to the impeller blades.

Look at various impeller designs before modifing yours. I have a WIFO blower which works great, if you scroll through the pictures in the attached link you will see how they designed their impeller. Check other designs to see which you prefer. http://www.wifo.ca/products/snow-blowers/3-point-hitch.html Notice how the last few inches of the impeller blades cup the snow.

Check the passage way between the impeller housing and the chute. You have a lot of snow built up around the base of the chute which makes me wonder if something isn't disrupting the snow flow.

The surface finish inside the chute can also disrupt the flow of the snow. If needed you can pick up spray cans of pickup bed liner from the parts store. That will provide a good smooth surface that is also durable.

You may have several problems that need addressed, cover them all while doing this. A few better pictures of your impeller/housing might get you better input.

 

[Dan33Klein]

That looks like a good design on the impeller. Unfortunately I don’t think I will be able to remove mine.
I plan on probably relining the drum and clearancing the impeller to fit. And a coat of paint. If it don’t perform any better next year I will send it down the road.

 

[Dave M7040]

Dave,
There are numbers welded on top of a plate. So That confirm it is a loftness blower.
I will get a picture/read the numbers after work.

Dan

Since Loftness have responded so quickly I will ask them about fan to drum clearance.

It would be good to have that info from their perspective.

Here is the response from LOFTNESS:

We recommend 3/16” to ¼” but if it is real wet heavy snow they will sometimes blow as you described below anyway.

Since getting your fan off will be impossible, it would be wise to line the drum since doing so wont affect any balance issues

Dave m7040

 

[leonz]

Hello Dan33Klein,

it may be worth your while to pick up a pint of slick plate paint at tractor supply and a couple of disposable
paint mitts. they use this paint in grain wagons to make the grain flow easier.

============================================================================

That looks like a good design on the impeller. Unfortunately I don’t think I will be able to remove mine.
I plan on probably relining the drum and clearancing the impeller to fit. And a coat of paint. If it don’t perform any better next year I will send it down the road.

 

[Dan33Klein]

Dave,
Thanks for the info I will pursue re lining the drum.

I will look for the slick paint. But I’m sure a nice smooth new paint job with some snow boars wax will help the chute situation.

 

[Reb954]

That looks like a good design on the impeller. Unfortunately I don稚 think I will be able to remove mine.
I plan on probably relining the drum and clearancing the impeller to fit. And a coat of paint. If it don稚 perform any better next year I will send it down the road.

Are you saying you don't think you can get the impeller off? Relining the impeller housing is going to be pretty tough without taking out the impeller.

Take out the center bolt holding the impeller, spray a bunch of penetrant in it and stick the bolt back in. In a couple hours do that again and keep doing until the penetrant has had a chance to soak thru. If needed, use a torch to apply heat to the center hub of the impeller. I have pulled 2 different impellers out of old blowers and they came out easy. Of course, that doesn't mean yours will but give it a try.

 

[Dan33Klein]

Are you saying you don't think you can get the impeller off? Relining the impeller housing is going to be pretty tough without taking out the impeller.

Take out the center bolt holding the impeller, spray a bunch of penetrant in it and stick the bolt back in. In a couple hours do that again and keep doing until the penetrant has had a chance to soak thru. If needed, use a torch to apply heat to the center hub of the impeller. I have pulled 2 different impellers out of old blowers and they came out easy. Of course, that doesn't mean yours will but give it a try.

I am going to attempt to remove it if possible.
But i won’t take drastic measures to do so.

I agree it will be tricky with the impeller still in there

 

[Dan33Klein]

Here are some pictures. Showing the shaft go through the gear box to the impeller.

Numbers welded look like 1-0-205

 

[hawkeye08]

On my 48" blower, it had seen some abuse by previous owner (ran a bunch of gravel through it and ballooned the sheet metal around the impeller). I wanted to get a new piece and put in, but as often as I was using it, ended up bolting some tire tread at the end of each blade. Went from blowing about 10' with perfect snow to about 60'. With heavy wet snow, it easily cleared 6' out which was more than I had hoped for. I have never had any snow stick to rubber or bolts.. oh, btw, I used nylock nuts so they do not back off.

 

[Dan33Klein]

Finally got around to messing with this today.
I installed 14gauge sheet metal to line the housing since it was beat up and had a few holes.
I didn稚 have any luck removing the impeller. So I had to build up the impeller through the discharge hole.
13 passes with the welder. Don稚 judge the welds, it wasn稚 easy to do it while on the blower. If the impeller would have came off it would have been easier doing it on the work bench. Hard to get the grinder in there too. But I should be able to clean it up better.