Tig
Elite Member
The tresspassers should appologize. They created this situation.
Snowmachines on Private land
- Thread starter wawajake
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Sodo
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The guy did apologize and the farmer hit him (in the helmet:laughing
. If that sledder was a weenie he could have pressed charges.There was no way to make this situation any better, the farmer lost control. Lucky the video didn't catch him pointing the gun at anybody or he'd be in jail. I can understand how a guy could get fed up with trespassers, but he was out of control, and all of them were lucky the sledders didn't pull guns out.
murphy1244
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I agree they would not get off so easy in Ohio.
Pixguy
Super Star Member
The guy did apologize and the farmer hit him (in the helmet:laughing
There was no way to make this situation any better, the farmer lost control. Lucky the video didn't catch him pointing the gun at anybody or he'd be in jail. I can understand how a guy could get fed up with trespassers, but he was out of control, and all of them were lucky the sledders didn't pull guns out.
I agree, he had every right to be upset but they weren't even on his property. He should tell the sledders to turn around and go back. Where he went over the line was to kick the sled and then whack at the guy who was asking what the problem was. He went over the line but he should just get his wrist slapped.
JMO
murphy1244
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What happened to the rest of the tape?
Tig
Elite Member
I can't get the video to run but was struck by the tresspassers comment that he knew he was tresspassing and he f bombeb the farmer before he got slapped.
Sled riders that trespass without caring they are in the wrong will always defend these type of people.
Land owners who continually are trespassed against and have seen the actions of the others again and again will always side with the landowner.
There is more to the story than what has been presented and it is edited to show what the releaser of the video wanted it to show.
If you own one of the machines ride on your own land if you have it, buy some land, or ride in places that are marked for public use. Do not presume to think that your enjoyment of any activity gives you a right to infringe others property rights.
Land owners who continually are trespassed against and have seen the actions of the others again and again will always side with the landowner.
There is more to the story than what has been presented and it is edited to show what the releaser of the video wanted it to show.
If you own one of the machines ride on your own land if you have it, buy some land, or ride in places that are marked for public use. Do not presume to think that your enjoyment of any activity gives you a right to infringe others property rights.
westcliffe01
Veteran Member
The #1 mistake the farmer made was not put a sling on his shotgun. The moment you carry it like that, people will feel threatened. Slung over the shoulder, less likely.
Who knows how many times this mans land is violated ? In hunting season, it is not unusual to find trespassers on 6 - 8 occasions and that just happens to be when you and them are out there at the same time.. Usually those trespassers are armed and in full camo. The landowner and his wife got a full on cussing by a group of trespassers who were armed and they were not. I bumped into the same group of guys sitting right on the fenceline in tree stands, facing onto the property they had no rights to hunt. It was clear what they were doing, but law enforcement will not do anything unless you present them with evidence of having poached on your land. I WAS carrying an AR-15 and I did not get a cussing, but they were pretty upset with me anyhow and they tried to tell me to stay out the area, but I read them my letter of "designation" for predator hunting from the owner and said that I would be in their faces regularly so long as I could find coyote tracks in the area. All except 1 moved off into other locations on the 280 acres that they lease that butts up to the property in question, but that 1 guy has illegally hunted the same spot for 30 years and will not be moved and LE will do nothing about it.
We have estimated that they probably take about 24-26 deer off the property a year, especially during bow season, when the deer are "tame" and that runs from September to Nov 15. Then shotgun season for another 2 weeks and then Muzzle loader for another month. If we try to put out game cameras to cover the fence row in question, they just disappear. The only thing that might work are wireless cameras that transmit the images to a remote server, but for the distances in question, that is a pretty major investment.
Who knows how many times this mans land is violated ? In hunting season, it is not unusual to find trespassers on 6 - 8 occasions and that just happens to be when you and them are out there at the same time.. Usually those trespassers are armed and in full camo. The landowner and his wife got a full on cussing by a group of trespassers who were armed and they were not. I bumped into the same group of guys sitting right on the fenceline in tree stands, facing onto the property they had no rights to hunt. It was clear what they were doing, but law enforcement will not do anything unless you present them with evidence of having poached on your land. I WAS carrying an AR-15 and I did not get a cussing, but they were pretty upset with me anyhow and they tried to tell me to stay out the area, but I read them my letter of "designation" for predator hunting from the owner and said that I would be in their faces regularly so long as I could find coyote tracks in the area. All except 1 moved off into other locations on the 280 acres that they lease that butts up to the property in question, but that 1 guy has illegally hunted the same spot for 30 years and will not be moved and LE will do nothing about it.
We have estimated that they probably take about 24-26 deer off the property a year, especially during bow season, when the deer are "tame" and that runs from September to Nov 15. Then shotgun season for another 2 weeks and then Muzzle loader for another month. If we try to put out game cameras to cover the fence row in question, they just disappear. The only thing that might work are wireless cameras that transmit the images to a remote server, but for the distances in question, that is a pretty major investment.
bigtiller
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Are you chastising the land owner for trespassing on his neighbors land and giving the snowmobilers a free ride? Aren't the riders somewhat culpable?
dave1949
Super Star Member
I think that's a good possibility. He doesn't seem very rational. Or maybe the whole thing is a poorly acted spoof of some kind?
What/who was the person standing by the car parked at the end of the road/driveway at the very end of the video?
PlumCrazy814
Bronze Member
I think it was a set-up as well. It is too hard to believe that a local snowmobile rider does not know that they are going on private property.
The owner may have over-reacted in this case but I am certain that he is frustrated by years of tresspass/damage.
It's sad because I would bet that the landowner would have been ok with it had they asked.
The owner may have over-reacted in this case but I am certain that he is frustrated by years of tresspass/damage.
It's sad because I would bet that the landowner would have been ok with it had they asked.
Scooby074
Super Member
Im chastising the land owner because he escalated the situation by leaving his property with his firearm, then doing the very thing he was mad at the snowmobiliers for doing.
I never said the snowmobilers deserve to get a free ride.
OP
wawajake
Veteran Member
Your grasping at straws Scooby.............farm neighbors are going to typically be quite okay with each other using a neighbors access road at times...........especcially when chasing yahoos like these two.
And as for slapping the snowmacine driver in the head.............he was wearing a helmet ! ....no harm could even take place! One other aspect we forget is these folks wearing helmets cannot be recognized and identified, so farmers need to get up close to get identification (or numbers off the machines) and if that takes a gun to bring them to a stop ..............so be it. I hope the judge is a person who has had similar understanding for the kind of disrespect the young yahoos of today now have.
And as for slapping the snowmacine driver in the head.............he was wearing a helmet ! ....no harm could even take place! One other aspect we forget is these folks wearing helmets cannot be recognized and identified, so farmers need to get up close to get identification (or numbers off the machines) and if that takes a gun to bring them to a stop ..............so be it. I hope the judge is a person who has had similar understanding for the kind of disrespect the young yahoos of today now have.
Scooby074
Super Member
Could be that the neighbour didnt care... maybe he did?
Maybe the neighbour should have chased the "farmer" down in his truck carrying a shotgun?
The issue isnt that the snowmobilers technically trespassed (although do you consider someone making a wrong turn and ending up in your yard a "trespass", especially when they make an effort to quickly leave? I sure dont.) its that the "farmer" chased them down carrying a gun, which he used to threaten them, then he physically assaulted them, and vandalized one of their vehicles, all while being a "tough guy" full of 12Ga courage. . Thats an order of magnitude more severe than a mere, accidental trespass.
Id love to be the judge on the case. Theres video evidence. If the snowmobiliers made an accidental turn, then made a reasonable effort to leave, he hasnt a leg to stand on. Even if they killed his cat and raped his Alpacas while singing "We are the Champions", he hasnt a leg to stand on as far as his actions are concerned
Looking4new
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IMHO I think the farmer was very wrong in letting the shotgun leave the gun cabinet. You don't need a shotgun to write down numbers off a sled.
The statement, 'you are trespassing on private property, please leave' is all that needed to be said and take down the numbers off the sleds.
IF they don't leave or give a bunch of guff, then call the cops, and let them deal with it after giving the cops the numbers off the sled.
We pay them through our taxes 'to serve and protect', so they can just do some serving and protecting.
The statement, 'you are trespassing on private property, please leave' is all that needed to be said and take down the numbers off the sleds.
IF they don't leave or give a bunch of guff, then call the cops, and let them deal with it after giving the cops the numbers off the sled.
We pay them through our taxes 'to serve and protect', so they can just do some serving and protecting.
Here, the knock on the helmet could be charged as 4th degree assault, certainly not justified in a simple trespass case. If I had been called out, the trespassers would each have been given a citation, the property owner would have gotten one for himself. That's what we pay those big bucks to the judges, let them decide which is the greater wrong.
However, if damages were done and could be proven, then it would be criminal trespass, but still wouldn't justify a laying on of the hands, the owner should have backed away and let his tax paid civil servants handle the issue.
I used to have a problem with 4 wheelers running up the river bed and across my property. It is a navigable stream and as such, is open to the public, but once you step onto the bank, you're trespassing. My issue was that they were cutting deep ruts and spinning donuts in a river bottom that is highly erodible since it floods at least twice a year.
Since there were so many people doing it, it seemed to me that the simplest solution was to just fence it off. It does get to be a pain unlocking and locking back a gate that I'd rather not have there in the first place, but at least now I don't have a problem with the 4 wheelers. They still run the river bank on either side of me, but they don't get across my property.
However, if damages were done and could be proven, then it would be criminal trespass, but still wouldn't justify a laying on of the hands, the owner should have backed away and let his tax paid civil servants handle the issue.
I used to have a problem with 4 wheelers running up the river bed and across my property. It is a navigable stream and as such, is open to the public, but once you step onto the bank, you're trespassing. My issue was that they were cutting deep ruts and spinning donuts in a river bottom that is highly erodible since it floods at least twice a year.
Since there were so many people doing it, it seemed to me that the simplest solution was to just fence it off. It does get to be a pain unlocking and locking back a gate that I'd rather not have there in the first place, but at least now I don't have a problem with the 4 wheelers. They still run the river bank on either side of me, but they don't get across my property.
OP
wawajake
Veteran Member
I see a few people here have no idea about dealing with snowmachines (or ATV's ) that when they see they are being pursued or waved down by a land owner (so he can get identification) again and again... just take take off with a spray of snow or mud , while merrily having fun and doing damage at landowners expense.There is no way you can get the license numbers off a machine going at any speed and distance from you and police are an hour or more to show up if at all. Furthermore no where in the vidieo (which keep in mind is editted by the snowmacine rider that had the video cam) does it show gun is loaded or pointed at anyone. Sad to see the lack of support for valid landowner concerns... I guess the "just do it" ...me me me point of view has leaked into even tractor rural sites like ours!
Dutch445
Elite Member
here is 480volts thread earlier this winter:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/rural-living/300799-stopping-snowmobile-without-injury.html
it's hard to tell from the video, but it didn't look like a snowmobile trail from what i saw, maybe a farm
access road. around here, the trail system is maintained with state funds which come from sled registrations,
and it is made very clear to riders to stay on the trail, otherwise you are trespassing. i can't speak for
an area like Saskatoon CA, it looks very rural and i find it hard to imagine not being on private property out there.
the guy is a little ticked off, but the sled driver seemed to know they were in trouble as soon as he saw him,
so i don't buy the fact that they "didn't know" they were on private property.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/rural-living/300799-stopping-snowmobile-without-injury.html
it's hard to tell from the video, but it didn't look like a snowmobile trail from what i saw, maybe a farm
access road. around here, the trail system is maintained with state funds which come from sled registrations,
and it is made very clear to riders to stay on the trail, otherwise you are trespassing. i can't speak for
an area like Saskatoon CA, it looks very rural and i find it hard to imagine not being on private property out there.
the guy is a little ticked off, but the sled driver seemed to know they were in trouble as soon as he saw him,
so i don't buy the fact that they "didn't know" they were on private property.
Yet in this instance they did stop? So your concern they all just run isn't valid. If they intended to run surely they would have picked now with a gun wielding landowner. Yes, people have problems with snowmobilers but striking one while holding a gun isn't respectful either. Definitely two wrongs here and hope both learn lessons while the rest of us stop grouping all snomobilers as disrespectful trespassers.
Yet in this instance they did stop? So your concern they all just run isn't valid. If they intended to run surely they would have picked now with a gun wielding landowner. Yes, people have problems with snowmobilers but striking one while holding a gun isn't respectful either. Definitely two wrongs here and hope both learn lessons while the rest of us stop grouping all snomobilers as disrespectful trespassers.
