So much for a Nissan Leaf!

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   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #501  
We get it, Captain Lud.

Your response shows you're stuck on an opinion that's not really factually based.

Still at it I see HS, it appears as if your lack of knowledge in electric vehicles as well as your car knowledge is shining through...

Keep at it, reach out to some of your buds, surely they can step in and speak for you some how? It won't be the first time.
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #502  
Read up on the Tesla. Range is limited (100 miles) but the handling and performance are reportedly superior to many cars in the sport class. Top Gear (BBC version) put it through its paces and found it a great handling performance vehicle. Their issue was the range, but they overplayed that, and BBC got slapped for it.

Other than for a defensive diversion, why would you try to bring a luxury version of a battery car into a thread about the "affordable" battery Leaf car as proof of a singe counter-point?

If you would like to open that can of worms, go for it, but I think you have a better chance of looking reasonable, by sticking with an economy battery car like the Leaf.
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #503  
Loren,

Before I waste my time, "proving" to you the major limitations, and disadvantages of widespread wind mills, let me just warm-up on your enthusiasm.

Do you know that even many global warming nuts have conceded to the fact that the idea of disrupting enough of the Earth's natural wind flows, to create a significant replacement of fossil fuels, would cause far greater climate change than the extraction and burning of carbon fuel.

Did you not think for a moment that blocking the flow of the planet's natural winds in any significant amount, would have an ill counter-effect? Energy can not be created or destroyed. Pretty simple actually.
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #504  
Loren,

Before I waste my time, "proving" to you the major limitations, and disadvantages of widespread wind mills, let me just warm-up on your enthusiasm.

Do you know that even many global warming nuts have conceded to the fact that the idea of disrupting enough of the Earth's natural wind flows, to create a significant replacement of fossil fuels, would cause far greater climate change than the extraction and burning of carbon fuel.

Did you not think for a moment that blocking the flow of the planet's natural winds in any significant amount, would have an ill counter-effect? Energy can not be created or destroyed. Pretty simple actually.

Any references to support this:

What evidence that the winds on earth are being or could be blocked by any significant amount.

This article is not gloom and doom: Wind Power Found to Affect Local Climate - Scientific American
"What's the right comparison?
So how should we understand these results? Keith and colleagues compared the climate changes caused by wind turbines with the climate changes that would have been caused by fossil fuel burned to make the same amount of electricity. But because carbon dioxide lasts for centuries or millennia in the atmosphere (unless we suck it out somehow), it's hard to know over how many years to calculate the avoided carbon dioxide emissions. For the 20-year life of the turbines? Or for the few hundred years of supply of fossil fuels that could be burnt?

Now that the impacts of wind turbines on climate are becoming better understood, more comprehensive studies of complete future energy systems are needed. We need to ask, what combination of wind power, solar power, nuclear power and fossil fuel power, together with what combination of measures to remove carbon from the atmosphere, will result in the lowest overall environmental and social costs."

Offshore wind farms could tame hurricanes before they reach land -- ScienceDaily
Offshore wind farms could tame hurricanes before they reach land
Date:
February 26, 2014
Source:
Stanford University
Summary:
Computer simulations have shown that offshore wind farms with thousands of wind turbines could have sapped the power of three real-life hurricanes, significantly decreasing their winds and accompanying storm surge, and possibly preventing billions of dollars in damages. In the case of Hurricane Katrina, the computer model revealed that an array of 78,000 wind turbines off the coast of New Orleans would have significantly weakened the hurricane well before it made landfall.

Do Wind Farms Really Cause Climate Change? | Samir Succar's Blog | Switchboard, from NRDC

A number of news outlets have picked up a recent paper that looks at the local land surface temperature impacts of large wind farms. This has resulted in a number of headlines like 展ind farms can cause climate change and 展ind farms linked to temperature increase (see additional stories here, here and here).

This wording is deeply misleading in this context and conflates small-scale, local impacts on nighttime land surface temperatures and global climate disruption. Using the same language to describe these two very different phenomena blatantly ignores the profound differences in magnitude, scope and severity that separate them. It'slike equating a bumblebee with Mothra.

So what's the bottom line?

Wind-induced turbulence does produce vertical mixing in the atmospheric boundary layer that increases nittime surface temperatures. This is a small, local impact that should not be confused with what is typically thought of as "climate change"�/B] One possibe outcome of this local effect is that you would be able to extend growing seasons for crops grown near wind turbines. There might be additional impacts that haven't yet been anticipated, but it is clear that these impacts bear no resemblance in scope, magnitude or severity to global climate disruption. Language matters. Unfortunately, some good media outlets have missed the ball on this one.

=====================

Wind energy is converted to mechanical energy and then to electric energy. No claims of creating something from nothing. You made up that part.

Support what you claim as facts with factual information. So far you have stated an opinion.

Loren
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #505  
Wind energy is converted to mechanical energy and then to electric energy. No claims of creating something from nothing. You made up that part.

Support what you claim as facts with factual information. So far you have stated an opinion.

Loren

You should see by now I pretty much don't make anything up. Nice try though.
You can't take Megawatts of "mechanical" energy for human consumption from the Earth's wind patterns and not have an effect on the planet. That's basic physics. Those winds are part of what made and still makes the planet you so dearly say you love... What it is today...
Like I stated before: "Energy can not be created or destroyed". Pretty simple actually.

Are you saying now, that it's OK to change the planet's natural energy flows?
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #506  
You missed the losses in transmission, step downed three or four times, inverted, put into battery, taken out, the inefficients are staggering. Electric is for when the local environment requires zero emissions, nothing else. HS.

Yeah, you loose about 9%. In a car you also have a transmission and operate well away from the most efficient operating condition.
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #507  
Other than for a defensive diversion, why would you try to bring a luxury version of a battery car into a thread about the "affordable" battery Leaf car as proof of a singe counter-point?

If you would like to open that can of worms, go for it, but I think you have a better chance of looking reasonable, by sticking with an economy battery car like the Leaf.

Just a response to HS who said (to paraphrase) that no electric car can every match the performance of a combustion engine.
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #508  
You should see by now I pretty much don't make anything up. Nice try though.
You can't take Megawatts of "mechanical" energy for human consumption from the Earth's wind patterns and not have an effect on the planet. That's basic physics. Those winds are part of what made and still makes the planet you so dearly say you love... What it is today...
Like I stated before: "Energy can not be created or destroyed". Pretty simple actually.

Are you saying now, that it's OK to change the planet's natural energy flows?

Not convinced you don't embellish. You have provided no support for your claims. You're overconfident with how I feel about your opinions.

Offshore wind energy faces setbacks in Great Lakes | WRVO Public Media

"The real resource is in the lake. And the reason for that is you get about three times the energy due to the higher wind speeds and less turbulence than you do on land,” said Wagner.

The U.S. Department of Energy estimates the country has an offshore wind capacity of 4 million megawatts. That’s four times the generating capacity of all U.S. electric power plants.

So your made up claim is that covering 20% of 1/4 of Lake Erie (1/16) with wind generators will do what to the earth's climate? (replaces all US electrical production)

Of course we know that for wind to work in the overall scheme the units need to be dispersed around the country.

References would be good....your word carries little weight alone.

Loren
 
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   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #509  
Just a response to HS who said (to paraphrase) that no electric car can every match the performance of a combustion engine.
Just name the electric car with 600+ mile range, batteries the weigh 120lbs, roughly a fuel fuel tank, can be recharged 100% in five minutes. For now I remain correct. HS
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #510  
Just name the electric car with 600+ mile range, batteries the weigh 120lbs, roughly a fuel fuel tank, can be recharged 100% in five minutes. For now I remain correct. HS

Moving goalposts does not prove your point. If anything it tends to underscore your original point has been refuted.
 
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