So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[BobRip]

Let me tell you how populations density goes in reverse.. Big Wars, and Big disease followed by Big famine. At least that is the past history.

We don't have to worry about the Earth. It is the people that we have to worry about. We can manage our population in a humane way, or Mother Nature will do it in a very painful way.

 

[dave1949]

Let me tell you how populations density goes in reverse.. Big Wars, and Big disease followed by Big famine. At least that is the past history.

Have you read Inferno by Dan Brown? I can't say much about the population control-related plot without ruining it for someone who might read it.

Big War seems less likely to me than in past times, but who knows?

World War II casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history. Over 60 million people were killed, which was over 2.5% of the world population.

2% of 7 billion people is 140 million.
3% of 7 billion people is 210 million.

Those would be the losses required to be equivalent to the magnitude in WWII. It didn't take very long to recover the (total) population following WWII.

These are the 2011 global estimates:
131.4 million births per year 55.3 million people die each year
That is a net growth of 76.1 million per year and accelerating. It would take less than three years to recover a 3% population loss at those rates. Although, a higher average global age would tend to slow that rate of recovery since a larger portion of the population would be beyond their child-bearing ages.


Big viral Disease is possible certainly. It's questionable if governments would act quickly and aggressively enough to contain a highly communicable viral disease. Would regional quarantines be erected early enough to be effective? How would that be enforced? Would we shoot down a civilian airliner coming from an infected region?

Big Famine on a global scale. Has that happened in the past, or could it happen globally now? A big volcanic or space object (comet, meteor, asteroid) event could certainly put a dent in global food supplies and reserves for a period of years.

 

[buickanddeere]

Interesting to note the societies with the most resources have the fewest children. Yet in impoverished nations with the least ability attempt to raise the largest families.
Then there are certain religious groups who see it as a calling to produce and many believers as possible. Try taking that "right" away from any group that isn't Christian.

 

[ultrarunner]

I don't know... 30 years ago things were going well for me...

Lets see... I drive a 30 year old truck that was new then, I watch TV on a 30 year old TV with Rabbit Ears... don't have a cell phone... the computer I had 30 years ago is still sitting on my desk... an Apple //e which by the way had never crashed!

The home I live in would have only been 30 years old then instead of 60...

All of my appliances 30 years ago would be the same ones I still have...

Come to think of it... 30 years ago suits me just fine...

Plus... don't forget that utilities were much more affordable... the water and sewage charges were minisule as compared to today... gas was a bargain and costs 4 times more today and I my salary today has only doubled...

 

[buckeyefarmer]

My dads house is only feed at 60Amps. Houses near me have either 400A or 600A services, but don't worry, they drive their green mobiles. :laughing:

 

[DarkBlack]

"www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41709.pdf"

That the fact that publication was from a study for battery car advocates, I find it's cautious, slightly pessimistic, tone to be somewhat inline with my view of the whole thing.
More interesting points in the article conclusion:

"Without action by the U.S. government in 2009 through ARRA, there would be little likelihood
that the United States would have any foundation in the Li-ion battery supply chain."

That one says it all. Without past forced taxation...well, what it says...

"there is a gap between the Administration痴 goal of
having 1 million electric vehicles on the road by 2015 and consumer demand for such vehicles."

Govenrment pushing for a million more vehicles on the road. That's real great for the environment. A million more big batteries drawing off of power plants.

"Advanced battery manufacturing is still an infant industry whose technology and potential market
remain highly uncertain. Its development in the United States is likely to depend heavily on how
the federal government further addresses the challenges of building a battery supply chain and
promoting advances in battery technologies."

"promoting" Got to laugh at that slight of hand wording. It's an alternative term in this context for simply more taxation.

 

[houstonscott]

"www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41709.pdf" That the fact that publication was from a study for battery car advocates, I find it's cautious, slightly pessimistic, tone to be somewhat inline with my view of the whole thing. More interesting points in the article conclusion: "Without action by the U.S. government in 2009 through ARRA, there would be little likelihood that the United States would have any foundation in the Li-ion battery supply chain." That one says it all. Without past forced taxation...well, what it says... "there is a gap between the Administration痴 goal of having 1 million electric vehicles on the road by 2015 and consumer demand for such vehicles." Govenrment pushing for a million more vehicles on the road. That's real great for the environment. A million more big batteries drawing off of power plants. "Advanced battery manufacturing is still an infant industry whose technology and potential market remain highly uncertain. Its development in the United States is likely to depend heavily on how the federal government further addresses the challenges of building a battery supply chain and promoting advances in battery technologies." "promoting" Got to laugh at that slight of hand wording. It's an alternative term in this context for simply more taxation.

LI batteries are not new, space industry has been using them over thirty years. They are old technology. Not much has happened in batteries since the 1970's. It might be recent times that manufactures and the public have had their hands on once classified technology, but new or infant industry, no. HS

 

[dave1949]

Interesting to note the societies with the most resources have the fewest children. Yet in impoverished nations with the least ability attempt to raise the largest families.
Then there are certain religious groups who see it as a calling to produce and many believers as possible. Try taking that "right" away from any group that isn't Christian.

Children are the equivalent of Social Security in poor nations. Those developing nations also tend to have a larger and more labor intensive agrarian component in their economies. Having children is almost a necessity in that situation.

I can understand that, but what amazes me is the almost universal flight to the cities by the rural poor--and their large family tendencies go with them. The slums and unofficial shack cities that ring some of the large cities in S. America are mind boggling. I really can't imagine living that way unless they have no alternatives, so I guess they do not. They are economic refugees in their own countries. With a bit more unbridled corporate power and governmental corruption and idiocy, we will have the same situation here. We are already well on our way towards that.

What can be said about religion's impact on global population? Any group or institution that promotes and encourages unbridled population growth is part of the problem. It is tempting to sink into demagoguery and say something like, "Hey, Mr. Pope, there are 50 thousand of your kids on the Arizona border. Come and get them." Of course it is more complicated than that and in general, minus a few prolific exceptions, economic advancement seems to counteract such things without getting nasty about it or engaging in religious wars. As you noted, large families are not the norm in wealthier nations.

Population growth trends are tied to economic development. The UN, which makes population projections, adjusts their future population estimates based upon a nation's economic progress compared to what that nation's economic progress was projected to be for the time period. Reducing poverty would seem to be the best way to reduce population growth rates.

 

[ultrarunner]

My dads house is only feed at 60Amps. Houses near me have either 400A or 600A services, but don't worry, they drive their green mobiles. :laughing:

My first home that I still own is fed by a single 30 amp fuse... never a problem.

My neighbors were green about everything... they were the first and only to install A/C so they also put in a 200 amp service... plus they needed more power for the 30 or more can lights and the big TV's for their 1100 square foot home???

They also bought a Prius and never missed a chance to tell me I should get rid of my 1985 Service Van... told them keeping was the responsible thing to do as I didn't want to contribute to the waste stream!

I had a high school teacher who is well respected for being green... the difference is he walked the walked. He did walk to school, composted, recycled water, etc... and he was the Physics teacher.

And therein lies the difference... plus it doesn't cost more to be really Green.



By the way... a friend lives in a triplex and the entire triplex is fed by a single 30 amp fuse... only made possible because of gas heat, gas water heater, gas cooking, etc...

 

[DarkBlack]

My dads house is only feed at 60Amps. Houses near me have either 400A or 600A services, but don't worry, they drive their green mobiles. :laughing:

A modern high capacity service for a single family around here is 200 amps.

I imagine if you want to 'look green' being a battery car owner, you might need a 400, or 600 amp service to get all that electricity in the battery with a 'quick' charger. Yup, green.