Solar Power Shed Project

[schmism]

any thought to useing forklift batteries instead of the ones you chose?

I have considered an alternitive energy plan for quite some time, based around a "small" 2K wind generator with say 500w of solar. Not so much off grid, but as a suppliment with a reverse meter so i could sell back to the power company when demand was low (ie durring the day when im not home, or durring the evening while sleeping)

With such a system I can greatly reduce the amount of battery i need (no effective reason for storeing the engergy) which would greatly reduce the cost of the project.

I just meet with my local power company about removing the overhead that supplys my property and going underground. At the same time increaseing the amount of current i could get. We determined that the best bet would be to go primary (12Kv) underground (400+ feet) with a small padmount transformer off the corner of my barn. That would be able to supply the 600 +- amps im looking for. (200 machine shop, 200 barn/apt, 200 new house)

 

[3RRL]

schmism,
Thanks for asking but I'm not that familiar with forklift batteries other than the one in my forklift...which is a dinky one. (It's gasoline engine) Hahaha. But my situation differs from yours as I will need as much storage as posssible. I know you're planning on setting up a full machine shop and I am too, so you know the demand just right there. Also, not being tied to the grid really leaves no option but to store the energy for night use...that in conjuction with our plans to minimize generator usage to almost zero. These batteries are pretty hefty with 503 Amphr @ 100hr each. I am not certain fork lift batteries can do what we want?

 

[schmism]

fork trucks have all the same requirements as you.... long durration use, but also quick charge times.

with the addtional functionality of pre-built groups of cells ranging up to 40v

they look like

reading some of the promational info on the above bats looks like

800 amphr cell @40v for 133amps per hr is typical usage. with 5+ life spans =1000's of cycles.

so essentally the same thing as what your useing... the question is how do they compair in price.

course if you really want to get serious about your bats, just source some from an old desiel electric sub. were you find those though i dont know

 

[3RRL]

WOW, that's good information and thanks. Unfortunately you may have seen the photos above and I already have bought mine. I will pass this information on to my contractor to see what he says. Maybe he can recommend them his other clients if they meet the system's requirements. Do you have any idea of the cost? One thing I see already is the batteries I bought have a 10 year warranty on them.

 

[schmism]

cost is the big issue which is why i was wanting to know if you reserched it.

from my limited reserch it can varry WIDELY!

word has it you can get refurbished "used" cells fairly cheeply at the expense of reduced capacity. ON the flip side gell cell version (no venting problems) have a lot longer and better "used" life because of the "dont have to put water in it" problem/issue.

Overall the biggest problem ive seen with "homeowners" useing them is moveing them. Unlike yours which are basicly hand moveable, some of the forklift cells can weight upwards of 4000lbs each (after all you want weight in a forklift to offset the fork'd weight) not real easy for a homeowner type to move.

the largest cell in that pic i posted is like 3'x3'x2' or something "huge" like that.

I would say the definint advanage for yours is the warrentee. but like anything else if you can get something for a 1/3 the cost that last half as long.... do you still not come out ahead if you have to buy them twice as often??...considering developing tech also? (But then again this battery tech is still the same as it was umteen years ago.... lead acid cells)

anyway just food for thought for "next time" or for the next guy

 

[schmism]

how bout some pics of thse fancy tracker systems for the PV pannels?

btw whats your cost per watt on the pannels?

ive heard the "killer deal" price was like $5 per watt

 

[3RRL]

I'll be digging the footing holes for the trackers this weekend but the Watsons have not arrived yet. So pics of them will be a ways off yet. The 200w Sharp panels are about $1,000 each so they're right at the $5 per watt range. I am getting them for cost so they may actually be less than that! I told you we had them out to test them and they produce bang on their rated watts....that's very good.

 

[monkeymonk]

woooh hold on...........

$5 a watt? killer deal??

I paid $3.50 at advanced solar... kyrocera 125watt producers, 25year waranty....... on any good panel 25yr or you shouldnt buy them!

 

[3RRL]

OK so now I'll have to drag out my contract to see exactly how much they were.
Were the Sharp 200's out yet when you bought your kyrocera?

 

[schmism]

ok perhaps not "killer deal" more like the price point... more than that and you should keep shopping... less than that and your doing ok for price.

i suppose killer deal would be freee

 

[dtd24]

Wow, nice job. I guess this is what the world is coming to anyway.

 

[midlf]

3RRL - I have a tax attorney uncle who says "if you are not getting audited you are not pushing them hard enough". Do your homework and get your ducks in a line. He would also say "until it's been to tax court my opinion is as good as the IRS's". Unfortunately for me ya gotta have a lot of $$ before you can play in these arenas. Back in the late 60's individuals would have to have 6 figure incomes before it was worthwhile to use his services.

 

[3RRL]

midlf,
I appreciate the vote of confidence and as I said, it's something worth lookning into. It would make a huge difference in the return I got. My accountant is researching what the restrictions are (if any) to doing it. He's much like your attorney friend and feels the same way about the IRS.

 

[stumpfield]

WOW, that's good information and thanks. Unfortunately you may have seen the photos above and I already have bought mine. I will pass this information on to my contractor to see what he says. Maybe he can recommend them his other clients if they meet the system's requirements. Do you have any idea of the cost? One thing I see already is the batteries I bought have a 10 year warranty on them.

Rob,

The batteries you got are better for solar application. They may not be the obsolute best batteries, but pretty good price/performance for a home solar power system. Fork lift batteries are excellent batteries but their design characteristics are different. They were designed to take a much higher charge rate and deeper discharge state without shorten it's life span. They also can take a lot of abuse. Which you have to paid for but not really needed for a stationary battery banks. They were intended for chargers connected to the grid with almost unlimited current to recharge it quickly.

Tom

 

[dholly]

Great thread Rob, lotsa new info to be learned here for me! FWIW, if the added tax benefit$ were there, I personally would not hesitate to be as aggressive as possible on this (even if it meant setting up 3RRL Energy Co., LLC with net metering at market rate and written records, etc.). After all, you're not likely to break a terribly big sweat moving $$ from one pocket to the other. Unless one has a bunch of skeletons in the closet, not using the tax code in a way to capture the max tax credit/write-off allowed is just throwing money away IMO. Not a tax expert but if you were ever to be audited on this, I should think you would only be audited once for the 'propriety' of the arrangement, then it becomes a non-event. Good job and good luck getting up and producing.

 

[dtd24]

Great idea on the LLC thing. I love stuff like that. I like all others, hate to pay taxes. I am in the process of getting my hobby horse farm into an LLC.

 

[3RRL]

I'm not familiar with the LLC and wanted to know if it has to be set up prior to purchasing the system or can it be set up during/after the solar system is paid for? We have already (obviously) paid the down payment and other expenses like built the power shed etc. Or can I just write the entire contract in the name of my present company?...that was the original idea? I have had several replies in the thread to take advantage of every write-off a man can get.
Thanks,

 

[midlf]

3RRL - I believe you are now at lawyer time. The LLC questions you have are, I believe, beyond the scope of TBN. So much depends on your specific situation, your finances, and your state incorporation laws and tax laws.

 

[3RRL]

3RRL - I believe you are now at lawyer time. The LLC questions you have are, I believe, beyond the scope of TBN. So much depends on your specific situation, your finances, and your state incorporation laws and tax laws.

Yes, you are right. I'll hook up with the attorney and accountant to hash this over from here. Thanks for the input.
Rob-

 

[3RRL]

I got the 20kW generator this weekend. It's a Cummins 20GGDB industrial model, 1800rpm and liquid cooled. This one should last me a lifetime. It's got enough power to charge the entire battery bank while providing power to run the household or shop.

Here it is just unloaded by my powerful Kama.