Oil & Fuel some confusion on GC1700 oil requirement.

[AxleHub]

My dealer warned me not to change to synthetic oil during the break in period. Speaking of that, the manual for my GC1710 advises to run full throttle during the break in period. That was a surprise.

Plowhog, breakin processes used to be based on a cheaper original shipped oils for thr engine in cars and trucks and motorcycles. Literally . . Breakin oil decades ago was cheap oil and tolerances were looser and when you changed the oil the 1st time it held more shinies . and small fragments. Today they tell you tolerances are tighter so breakin isn't the same issues or importance it once was. My response is . . . Nuts.


I have always been rewarded with good engines because I treat new engines the same way I treat "WI winter" cold engines. In other words initially run the engine very easy and allow it to warm up with no stress or strain and then vary the torque demands and rpms and transmission uses from low to high rpm ranges constantly.

50 hous is breakin for a scut tractor just like 2000 miles was for a car or truck. . . but I always waste some oil and filters and change earlier because engine life and reliability are higher priorities to me. I vary speeds and rpm much more than most which means power on hours is much higher tban the hour clock indicates.

So on my Massey I changed engine oil at 40 hours specifically because I wanted the original breakin oil out for the cold winter strain PLUS I wanted 5w-40 synthetic in for the cold winter strain. In other words . . I swapped breakin strain for cold weather strain as a deliberate part of my breakin . . . yet still continueing the variable rpms and torque requirements. As an example today I ran the tractor from 1 p.m. to 3:30 p.m. yet the hour meter showed 1.1 hours used.

Lastly for all to chuckle on . . I saved my original Iseki oil filter. Why? Well it has instructions on it which in itself is comical because you can't read the instructions when its on the tractor . . But it says to change the original after xx hours. Nice . . you'd only know AFTER you took it off lol . . . but here is the real chuckle . . . the oil filter instructions on the Iseki oil filter tell you that after the original breakin . . you should change the next oil after 300 hours use. Now that . . . Is a lonnnnnng-life oil filter lol.

 

[Clipse3GT]

Plowhog, breakin processes used to be based on a cheaper original shipped oils for thr engine in cars and trucks and motorcycles. Literally . . Breakin oil decades ago was cheap oil and tolerances were looser and when you changed the oil the 1st time it held more shinies . and small fragments. Today they tell you tolerances are tighter so breakin isn't the same issues or importance it once was. My response is . . . Nuts.


I have always been rewarded with good engines because I treat new engines the same way I treat "WI winter" cold engines. In other words initially run the engine very easy and allow it to warm up with no stress or strain and then vary the torque demands and rpms and transmission uses from low to high rpm ranges constantly.

50 hous is breakin for a scut tractor just like 2000 miles was for a car or truck. . . but I always waste some oil and filters and change earlier because engine life and reliability are higher priorities to me. I vary speeds and rpm much more than most which means power on hours is much higher tban the hour clock indicates.

So on my Massey I changed engine oil at 40 hours specifically because I wanted the original breakin oil out for the cold winter strain PLUS I wanted 5w-40 synthetic in for the cold winter strain. In other words . . I swapped breakin strain for cold weather strain as a deliberate part of my breakin . . . yet still continueing the variable rpms and torque requirements. As an example today I ran the tractor from 1 p.m. to 3:30 p.m. yet the hour meter showed 1.1 hours used.

Lastly for all to chuckle on . . I saved my original Iseki oil filter. Why? Well it has instructions on it which in itself is comical because you can't read the instructions when its on the tractor . . But it says to change the original after xx hours. Nice . . you'd only know AFTER you took it off lol . . . but here is the real chuckle . . . the oil filter instructions on the Iseki oil filter tell you that after the original breakin . . you should change the next oil after 300 hours use. Now that . . . Is a lonnnnnng-life oil filter lol.

It also says "Made In China" on that oil filter. IIRC there is 3 revisions of that filter already. M1, M2 is currently on the GC, and the newest revision I seen you can order is the M3 version. Last two alpha numerical digits in the part number.

Again the OEM filter is most likely a cheap cellulose filter. Great for break-in and then get something decent along with some Syn oil and you can actually run it to 300 hours.

I saw somewhere that 100 hours (I assume real hours and not just idle) is the same as 6000 road miles... take that with a grain of salt. Since tractors are operated in dirty, dust, wet, muddy, etc... environments. So anything that can get past the air filter will end up in the oil if its small enough. So either way probably yearly maintenance is the cheaper bet than a higher OCI.

Also a easy note is get a Silver / Gold sharpie (those metallic ones) and you can write the next oil change interval yourself. So next time you go, huh....? when did I change my oil last and with what oil.... just look on the bottom of the filter. Life hack...

 

[Scut 4 Big Bucks]

So I'm wondering if changing your own oil and adding what oil you think is best for your engine has anything to do with the warranty on the tractor? How do you prove you did all the right things if you have no work order from the dealer? I'm a do it yourself type of guy, so this has me wondering. I'm actually going to pick up a GC1715 in an hour, I'll ask the dealer about this.

 

[Clipse3GT]

So I'm wondering if changing your own oil and adding what oil you think is best for your engine has anything to do with the warranty on the tractor? How do you prove you did all the right things if you have no work order from the dealer? I'm a do it yourself type of guy, so this has me wondering. I'm actually going to pick up a GC1715 in an hour, I'll ask the dealer about this.

Just keep your receipts and time log for the work you performed either in a notebook or excel spreadsheet. Mark the hours and service performed, fluids changed etc..., that way you always have a log for warranty work. I can case the dealer / manufacturer would ever request it.

Also, the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act states that a manufacturer would have to prove the cause of failure was because of the different oil or filter you use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

Leasing cars is no different, I always kept a log of any work I had done whether I did it or a tire shop in case it was ever needed.

 

[ray66v]

So I'm wondering if changing your own oil and adding what oil you think is best for your engine has anything to do with the warranty on the tractor? How do you prove you did all the right things if you have no work order from the dealer? I'm a do it yourself type of guy, so this has me wondering. I'm actually going to pick up a GC1715 in an hour, I'll ask the dealer about this.

Anything that fails under warranty, is going to be serious. Meaning it will literally break. They can't, and won't, deny a claim for such a failure. Because it could only be caused by a manufacturing defect, in a short period of time.

They know if they tried, it would be all over the internet in hours.

Manufacturing defects that serious, are rarely one of a kind. So, if it happens, unless yours is the first, they will already know about.

To my knowledge, this has never happened to a GC engine, belonging to a member of this forum, in the 10 years I have been here. And, it is extremely rare for any manufacturer.

Again, there are no threads on here, to my knowledge, where new engines are failing. Or, threads where manufacturers are demanding to see anyone's maintenance records. Or, threads where a manufacturer is trying to get out of paying, based on someones, intervals, or choice of oil.

The worst thing that could happen in the time the warranty lasts, if you never did ANY maintenance, is engine wear. And, depending on the hours, that would will be minimal, for a home owner.

In almost 40 years of working in the service industry, I have never seen a manufacturer call for an oil analysis, or demand any service records, for a warranty claim.

But, if this keeps you up at night, just keep your receipts.

 

[plowhog]

The engine blew in my Mercedes SL at 66,000 miles. I asked the dealer for special consideration due to the low mileage even though it was out of warranty. His first question was to ask what kind of records I had that would prove the recommended servicing had been performed. I had none, or few. There was arguably a defect, as the engine design had been changed from a double row timing chain to single row, to save weight if you can believe that. Other engines had also had such problems.

I contacted Mercedes of North America to run the problem up the chain. Their first question: "what kind of service records do you have?" Eventually I paid half of a $6,000 engine rebuild and Mercedes paid the balance. So keeping receipts is a good idea.

My Lexus recommended 5w-30 oil, and I considered putting 10w-40 in it as I run this in most of my vehicles. My good friend, who runs the motor pool of a very very large police department, advised me not to deviate from the 5w-30 recommendation. He said that 10w oil might be too thick to property fit through all the necessary passages for cooling and lubrication. So, I may switch to synthetic, but I will try to stay with the same weight as recommended.

 

[ray66v]

The engine blew in my Mercedes SL at 66,000 miles. I asked the dealer for special consideration due to the low mileage even though it was out of warranty. His first question was to ask what kind of records I had that would prove the recommended servicing had been performed. I had none, or few. There was arguably a defect, as the engine design had been changed from a double row timing chain to single row, to save weight if you can believe that. Other engines had also had such problems.

As you said, you were asking for special consideration. 66,000 miles is a substantial amount of driving. Far more usage, than anyone is ever going to put on a GC, using it around their home. And, enough time to allow poor maintenance to be a factor. Not to mention it was out of warranty. You did not say how long the time period had expired by, either. I have seen manufacturers cover such things when the time interval was still reasonable, even though the mileage was exceeded.

However, like the rustproofing companies often did, they employed a tactic designed to get rid of you, rather than appease you because they did not have to, or want to, do anything for you. They have other roadblocks, if that one doesn't work.

Mercedes is a poor company, as you illustrated, (I did already know that).

And, as I said, where are all the threads where warranty was denied due to lack of maintenance records on TBN?

 

[Clipse3GT]

The engine blew in my Mercedes SL at 66,000 miles. I asked the dealer for special consideration due to the low mileage even though it was out of warranty. His first question was to ask what kind of records I had that would prove the recommended servicing had been performed. I had none, or few. There was arguably a defect, as the engine design had been changed from a double row timing chain to single row, to save weight if you can believe that. Other engines had also had such problems.

I contacted Mercedes of North America to run the problem up the chain. Their first question: "what kind of service records do you have?" Eventually I paid half of a $6,000 engine rebuild and Mercedes paid the balance. So keeping receipts is a good idea.

My Lexus recommended 5w-30 oil, and I considered putting 10w-40 in it as I run this in most of my vehicles. My good friend, who runs the motor pool of a very very large police department, advised me not to deviate from the 5w-30 recommendation. He said that 10w oil might be too thick to property fit through all the necessary passages for cooling and lubrication. So, I may switch to synthetic, but I will try to stay with the same weight as recommended.

Most modern cars allow the movement of one grade of oil in either direction thicker vs thinner viscosity depending on ambient temperature. As well as most modern engine have much higher tolerance due to better machining as well as the newer EPA requirements. So the trend over the past 10 years has been a decline from 5w-30 to 0w-30 or even 0w-20 oils. Better technology on oil formulation as well as tighter tolerance to produce more efficient and powerful engines along with the EPA requirements.

Multigrade oil is exactly that... it it multiple grades. So there for 5w-30 SAE oil is closer to 5 weight when it is cold and when the engine is climbing to operating temperature it is actually more viscous so a 30 weight. VS the older oils and some race oils which can be a straight SAE 30 (not multigrade).

There for there is really very little difference in 5w-30 or 10w-30. It is still very close to a 30 weight oil at operating temp. The difference is you thinner oil on start up when most of the friction on friction occurs. Thinner oil in high tolerance engine means oils gets quicker to vital components vs. a thick oil that require more psi to move to parts of the engine. But, once the engine is warm there is not much different.

There is very little gain between 5w-30 or 10w-30 in terms of protection. If you want more protection going to a 5w-40 or 0w-40 are a better bet, especially on modern turbo cars with high heat. It takes longer for those oils to shear down. Meaning a 30 oil will eventually shear to 20 vs. a 40 will shear to a 30 and then later shear down to a 20. Viscosity is always number 1 protection for parts up to a point then its followed by all the fancy additives.

 

[Scut 4 Big Bucks]

I talked to the dealer about this. He told me not to worry about having paperwork for an oil change, as it is very uncommon for this to happen. He said if it did happen, they would test the oil for whatever. I'll document when I do my fluid changes, maybe take some pics too just to be safe.

 

[ray66v]

Most modern cars allow the movement of one grade of oil in either direction thicker vs thinner viscosity depending on ambient temperature. As well as most modern engine have much higher tolerance due to better machining as well as the newer EPA requirements. So the trend over the past 10 years has been a decline from 5w-30 to 0w-30 or even 0w-20 oils. Better technology on oil formulation as well as tighter tolerance to produce more efficient and powerful engines along with the EPA requirements.

Multigrade oil is exactly that... it it multiple grades. So there for 5w-30 SAE oil is closer to 5 weight when it is cold and when the engine is climbing to operating temperature it is actually more viscous so a 30 weight. VS the older oils and some race oils which can be a straight SAE 30 (not multigrade).

There for there is really very little difference in 5w-30 or 10w-30. It is still very close to a 30 weight oil at operating temp. The difference is you thinner oil on start up when most of the friction on friction occurs. Thinner oil in high tolerance engine means oils gets quicker to vital components vs. a thick oil that require more psi to move to parts of the engine. But, once the engine is warm there is not much different.

There is very little gain between 5w-30 or 10w-30 in terms of protection. If you want more protection going to a 5w-40 or 0w-40 are a better bet, especially on modern turbo cars with high heat. It takes longer for those oils to shear down. Meaning a 30 oil will eventually shear to 20 vs. a 40 will shear to a 30 and then later shear down to a 20. Viscosity is always number 1 protection for parts up to a point then its followed by all the fancy additives.

The manual for my Sedona specifically allows me to run anything but 20w50 in it. That's how little difference it makes.