Oil & Fuel some confusion on GC1700 oil requirement.

[ray66v]

He said if it did happen, they would test the oil for whatever.

I for one, believe everything a salesman ever says.

If yours was the first one to fail, they may require some very specific information for their failure analysis people, so they can deal with the issue. Maybe they will even send them in person. But, once the defect has been established to exist, there really isn't a lot to be gleaned from doing a lot of further examination into it.

If your cam shaft breaks in half, or a piston rod breaks at 150 hours, these are called factory defects. They are going to be specifically concerned about how many units have these defective parts in them. Because, until the warranty expires, and they can transfer the liability for their mistake, to the owner, it's their baby.

 

[AxleHub]

Interesting how the thinking shifts

For me . . there is nothing more important than doing a superior job of breaking in the tractor . . Unless there is a manufacturing defect in a part or component . . . the quality of the breakin procedure sets the pattern for the future of the tractor (and of course the operator not doing boneheaded activities) lol.

So my efforts are about exceeding the breakin process . . not just measuring up to it. Come mid-spring I'll pack the tractor onto a trailer and haul it to the dealer for its "50 hour" service with thr hour clock on 65 or 70. They'll see the oil is clean . . But hydraulic levels and tranny fluids will look like they hadn't changed since they delivered it. I'll also get some of the same fluids they use from them . . But I'll continue to use my oil.

The dealer will be capable of supporting anything I'm doing because I'll leave several things to them snd the thi gs I do will show as being well done. The oil that came out of my gc was obviously quite dark but no shinies, no fogginess, no water, no burnt smells, and no little niggets or pieces of metal. Exactly a proper time to get it out before cold winter uses. I looked at the new oil after 6.5 hours use and its almost invisible on the dipstick because its so light colored and clean.

My goal isn't warranty compatibility . . its machine maximization. My pickup is an example . . Its unique in numerous ways yet I get 30% better gas mileage than its federal highway rating and zero oil loss.

 

[Scut 4 Big Bucks]

My goal isn't warranty compatibility . . its machine maximization. My pickup is an example . . Its unique in numerous ways yet I get 30% better gas mileage than its federal highway rating and zero oil loss.

Off topic, but are you getting better gas mileage with synthetic oil, driving habits, or aero dynamics?

I built the ugly topper below and got a 2.5mpg increase. Driving like grandma helps a lot also.

 

[ray66v]

I looked at the new oil after 6.5 hours use and its almost invisible on the dipstick because its so light colored and clean.

One of the most important things a diesel oil does, is keep any soot in your engine suspended, so it can be removed during your oil change.

If your oil stays "clean" it's probably not doing it's job.

Diesel engines have very high compression, and lots of soot ends up in the crankcase. Some "environmentally friendly" engines, no doubt have pollution controls that help remove it. My GC does not.

I change my oil annually. And, never put anywhere near 50 hours on it. Sometimes less than half that. The new oil still gets dirty quickly. Because, if that stuff is not in your oil, it's staying in your engine.

 

[AxleHub]

Off topic, but are you getting better gas mileage with synthetic oil, driving habits, or aero dynamics?

I built the ugly topper below and got a 2.5mpg increase. Driving like grandma helps a lot also.

Off topic
It started with the breakin. Oil changes at 750 miles, 1300 miles, and 2100 miles. Highway, city but not jamming on the accelerator during the 1st 2100 miles. Tough to do on a high performance (but stock) engine. I added an Air Hog air filter instead of stock. I added a quad fold cover to the bed. I used non-ethanol gas. And then I worked to find the torque points for highway driving speeds.

The engine is an lq9 (same as an escalade in 2004). I bought a truck with the desred rear end ratio. And I started with 19 mpg highway and kept improving ascany well broken in vehicle will do.

Still stock computer settings and no engine compartment mods. Its a rwd chevy ss 2004 less than 1000 made in 2004.

 

[AxleHub]

Ray66,

Will soot be less in my GC1715 because it is Tier 4?

In addition I'm also using a premium highway diesel fuel instead of the more normal hihhway diesel fuel. It has a special additive package that increases performance but reduces consumption of fuel snd burns cleaner. It costs 5 cents more a gallon but more than pays itself back just in fuel savings alone. Several fleets in the area use it to benefit their equipment use snd efficiency/clesn burning.

In addition I made sure that the synthetic oil I'm using is better specification coded than the normal spec. oil.

Finally I'm using diesel full synthetic oil . . not auto full synthetic oil.

Interested in getting your imput.

 

[Scut 4 Big Bucks]

The dealer at McFarlanes told me today that these subcompact tractors 25hp and less are not Tier 4, yet. 30+ hp tractors, yes.

 

[ray66v]

Will soot be less in my GC1715 because it is Tier 4?

I do not know what pollution controls are on a 1715. I am not sure if they are particularly concerned about reducing the soot in the crankcase, on one of these little tractors. But, I could be wrong.

In addition I'm also using a premium highway diesel fuel instead of the more normal hihhway diesel fuel. It has a special additive package that increases performance but reduces consumption of fuel snd burns cleaner. It costs 5 cents more a gallon but more than pays itself back just in fuel savings alone. Several fleets in the area use it to benefit their equipment use snd efficiency/clesn burning.

I doubt it. I have never noticed any difference in my equipment. I have run everything from high sulfur diesel to premium low sulfur, and off road. I have also tried lots of additives, one of which was highest rated. But, I am sure someone will insist it has all made a big difference in theirs.

All you need, is fuel with good additives for lubrication, and winter operation. Buying where the farmers in your area buy fuel, is a probably good place to start.

In addition I made sure that the synthetic oil I'm using is better specification coded than the normal spec. oil.

You probably can't even buy the spec'd oil anymore. Sometimes those spec's are really old, and outdated. Everyone is likely using better oil than they spec'd

Finally I'm using diesel full synthetic oil . . not auto full synthetic oil.

I would not recommend anything else, except oil designed specifically for a diesel engine. The acids that build up in the crankcase of a diesel, require oils that are designed to deal with them, to avoid corrosion. Low sulfur diesel helped reduce the problem. But, it did not eliminate it.

 

[AxleHub]

The dealer at McFarlanes told me today that these subcompact tractors 25hp and less are not Tier 4, yet. 30+ hp tractors, yes.

Communication is bath and beyond a simple and complex process that depends on precise use to be reliable.

If you look at a Massey produced brochure or video . . you will see the GC1700 series is Tier 4 (when last I checked, Kubota BX were not). But some people communicate that "full" Tier 4 requires precipitate cannisters, dpf designation etc. etc.. Sales people and most operators don't like "full" Tier 4 requirements becsuse it adds more expense to create and maintain.

1. If you examine the statement you repeated from them . . you'll note there is some lack of precision in their answer to your question. If 30+ hp is Tier 4 and 25 hp or less is not Tier 4 . . then what is 25+ to 30 hp?

2. Technically a diesel tractor is exempt from cannister based Tier 4 requirements if it is 25.99 hp or less is my underdtanding. And they are sllowed to use engine design methods to reduce emmisions to specified levrle to achieve Tier 4 status. Anything 26.01 hp and above must use precipitate filters etc.. Thst js why (my understsnfung at least) that Mahindra's Max 28 now becsme the Max 26 by detuning the engine from 28 to 26 hp.

 

[Clipse3GT]

Communication is bath and beyond a simple and complex process that depends on precise use to be reliable.

If you look at a Massey produced brochure or video . . you will see the GC1700 series is Tier 4 (when last I checked, Kubota BX were not). But some people communicate that "full" Tier 4 requires precipitate cannisters, dpf designation etc. etc.. Sales people and most operators don't like "full" Tier 4 requirements becsuse it adds more expense to create and maintain.

1. If you examine the statement you repeated from them . . you'll note there is some lack of precision in their answer to your question. If 30+ hp is Tier 4 and 25 hp or less is not Tier 4 . . then what is 25+ to 30 hp?

2. Technically a diesel tractor is exempt from cannister based Tier 4 requirements if it is 25.99 hp or less is my underdtanding. And they are sllowed to use engine design methods to reduce emmisions to specified levrle to achieve Tier 4 status. Anything 26.01 hp and above must use precipitate filters etc.. Thst js why (my understsnfung at least) that Mahindra's Max 28 now becsme the Max 26 by detuning the engine from 28 to 26 hp.

I am pretty sure that these engines are just detuned to meet the Tier 4 requirements for engines being 25.99 HP or less.

Pretty sure how they do it for the GC 1700 series does it to get to Tier 4.

1.) Decrease diesel injection pressure = less fuel = requires less air (read O2) to combust = less pollution, less fuel consumption, and less power
2.) High Speed Governor Reduction = Reduced to 2600 rpm for 1705/10 & 3000 rpm for 1715/20 = less fuel required = less emissions, I am sure these engines can easily rev to 3200-3500 rpm increase the output of the hydraulic pump as well
3.) Soot trapping muffler design = restrictive = increased backpressure and not a flow through setup = less power and less emissions
4.) Soot/Ash trapping oil specifications = decrease emissions

I am sure these engines could produce 28 hp all day long if it wasn't for the Tier 4 mandates if not a bit more.

Interesting little fact...

HORSEPOWER REQUIREMENTS
A practical formula for determining horsepower requirements for pumps is
as follows:
Gallons per minute x PSI Required 1714 = Horsepower.
Example: If a pump delivers 12 GPM and assuming that the required
operating pressure is 1,000 PSI.
Then multiply 12 GPM x 1,000 PSI = 12,000.
12,000 1714 = 7.0 horsepower.
Therefore, it takes 7.0 horsepower to operate the pump.

Therefore, in order for our GC 1715/20 to produce the specified 6.9 gal/min rating...

(6.9 gal/min x 1920 PRV max psi) / 1714 = 7.7 HP required to just run the hydraulics & HST on these tractors at max...