Oil & Fuel some confusion on GC1700 oil requirement.

[AxleHub]

I'm sure there are lots of things that go into engine design that alter its emmissions and performance.

But we also need to consider the "elephant in the room" relating to logic choices of the well known brands.

1. The biggest producer of scuts is Kubota . . yet to my knowledge as of this Spring they were still Tier 3 product. If its easy to simply detune to reach Tier 4 . . then what would Kubota's logic be for staying Tier 3 ? Let's remember that Kubota built is reputation and quantity lead by being a leader of innovation . . not a follower.

2. Yanmar and Massey are both Tier 4 rated . . As is Mahindra scuts.

3. John Deere scuts . . I don't know.

My point is . . unlike the cut and larger sizes . . who all must meet extensive Tier 4; the very popular and profitable scut market offers much easier Tier 4 options. But that scut market has become intensely competitive especially with the big names since 2013. Tier 4 class for cut and larger was a disincentive for many buyers imo and they gobbled up old inventory. But the scut market didn't have the same issues and I believe Tier 4 approval by numerous brands was an incentive to cleaner exhausts and still simple maintenance. I sense going to Tier 4 was an advantage in selling . . but required more than just detuning . . or Kubota would have done it long ago.

Opinions and input are welcome to my viewpoint . . but just saying Kubota didn't care . . Would be illogical imo. Kubota always cares about being an innovator not a follower.

Is Scut Tier 4 really easy to do by just detuning and so most of the best engine builders (Izeki and Yanmar) "chose to detune" their designs ? It just doesn't seem logical to be superior designer/builders and then detune them imo.

 

[Clipse3GT]

I'm sure there are lots of things that go into engine design that alter its emmissions and performance.

But we also need to consider the "elephant in the room" relating to logic choices of the well known brands.

1. The biggest producer of scuts is Kubota . . yet to my knowledge as of this Spring they were still Tier 3 product. If its easy to simply detune to reach Tier 4 . . then what would Kubota's logic be for staying Tier 3 ? Let's remember that Kubota built is reputation and quantity lead by being a leader of innovation . . not a follower.

2. Yanmar and Massey are both Tier 4 rated . . As is Mahindra scuts.

3. John Deere scuts . . I don't know.

My point is . . unlike the cut and larger sizes . . who all must meet extensive Tier 4; the very popular and profitable scut market offers much easier Tier 4 options. But that scut market has become intensely competitive especially with the big names since 2013. Tier 4 class for cut and larger was a disincentive for many buyers imo and they gobbled up old inventory. But the scut market didn't have the same issues and I believe Tier 4 approval by numerous brands was an incentive to cleaner exhausts and still simple maintenance. I sense going to Tier 4 was an advantage in selling . . but required more than just detuning . . or Kubota would have done it long ago.

Opinions and input are welcome to my viewpoint . . but just saying Kubota didn't care . . Would be illogical imo. Kubota always cares about being an innovator not a follower.

Is Scut Tier 4 really easy to do by just detuning and so most of the best engine builders (Izeki and Yanmar) "chose to detune" their designs ? It just doesn't seem logical to be superior designer/builders and then detune them imo.

As far as I am aware all of Kubota's BX engines are Tier 4 F... same as Iseki (MF) and Yanmar (JD)

All the E3B and E4B Kubota engines are Tier 4... So you are correct in the fact that Kubota did not chose to lag behind and are currently Tier 4 compliant as mandated by big brother....

BX25D - Engine D902 = Kubota Engine America - D902-E4B (3200rpm)
BX2670 - Engine D1005 = Kubota Engine America - D1005-E4B (3600rpm)
BX2370 - Engine D902 = Kubota Engine America - D902-E4B (3200rpm)
BX1870 - Engine D722 = Kubota Engine America - D722-E4B

Here are the EPA requirements for ~25HP

There was never a Tier 3 for these smaller engines either Tier 4I or Tier 4F going from Tier 2.

 

[WilliamBos]

Recent 2011 Study on best oil filters...

Oil Filter Comparison Study - GM Truck Central

AMSOIL, M1, FRAM XTENDGUARD, and ROYAL PURPLE are top filters noted in that study.

M1 & RP are made by Championship labs (very similar overall)

FRAM makes the Fram XG

WIX makes the AMSOIL filter

Thanks for sharing this. We have been running T6 5W40 since the first service, not one issue.

I got a UOA when I did the oil change on my truck, it came back excellent, Fram Ultra filter was used with confidence.

 

[Clipse3GT]

Thanks for sharing this. We have been running T6 5W40 since the first service, not one issue.

I got a UOA when I did the oil change on my truck, it came back excellent, Fram Ultra filter was used with confidence.

No problem, T6 for the price and easy availability is excellent Group IV base oil that's truly synthetic. Used it in many sorts of power equipment without issue.

I avoid personally Fram like the plague after the pressure relief valve failed and blew itself clean off the engine 8 years ago... other people had success with them. I used M1 oil filters every since that happened along with some K&N. Prefer the M1's though.

 

[ray66v]

I have a 1997 Villager with over 240k miles on it. It's never had an oil analysis. It uses no oil, and runs like new. It will soon be the best running one, in the junk yard. Because, the body has rusted away.

It has had 5k oil changes, with just regular Penzoil, and those "junk" Fram oil filters, it's entire life.

I could have changed the oil every 3k, or more often. Spent time deciding what high end filter to use. Debated, switching to some expensive oil, and, God knows what else. If I had done all that, It would have been a waste.

I would also could left to conclude, that doing all that, made all the difference in the world. Because, look how long it lasted. :thumbsup:

This is one of 3 vehicles, one Ford, one GM, and this one, which is actually a Nissan. where we had similar results, with basic maintenance, and "junk" Fram filters.

They may be junk filters. But they do seem to have be good enough to do the job.

I know everyone has made investments in these machines, and they are worried about them for them to paying off. But, it seems like there is a lot of excessive concern.

Cars are built better than ever, (unless you are talking about Chrysler ), And, oil has improved significantly in the past 20 years. 200k miles, is common today.

It's all pretty good now, unless someone really abuses something, or it has a defect, it's going to last a long time, whether you go overboard taking care of it, or not.

 

[Clipse3GT]

Sir, all valid points, however.... things we cannot see fascinate us the most...

If you do regular things with a regular car why not use regular oil and filter in it... it is most peoples reality... or the other side of the coin that just doesn't do anything and go forbid you buy that "certified used car".

I grew up my entire life around motorsport and things that go fast or have too much power for their own good... so I always use the highest quality I can afford... but that's the mentality I have engrained in my head... I might be that 1% of the population that does not want to follow the boring trend of car, home, or tractor ownership... where is the fun in that...

Doing regular maintenance with cheap oil / filters is better than no maintenance at all...

 

[WilliamBos]

No problem, T6 for the price and easy availability is excellent Group IV base oil that's truly synthetic. Used it in many sorts of power equipment without issue.

I avoid personally Fram like the plague after the pressure relief valve failed and blew itself clean off the engine 8 years ago... other people had success with them. I used M1 oil filters every since that happened along with some K&N. Prefer the M1's though.

Im going to try an M1 filter on the truck next oil change. Ive never heard a bad thing about them.

Who makes thrm? Mobil?

 

[Clipse3GT]

Im going to try an M1 filter on the truck next oil change. Ive never heard a bad thing about them.

Who makes thrm? Mobil?

IIRC, Championship Labs - they also make STP, MOPAR, RP, and VW filters.

 

[ray66v]

Sir, all valid points, however.... things we cannot see fascinate us the most...

If you do regular things with a regular car why not use regular oil and filter in it... it is most peoples reality... or the other side of the coin that just doesn't do anything and go forbid you buy that "certified used car".

I grew up my entire life around motorsport and things that go fast or have too much power for their own good... so I always use the highest quality I can afford... but that's the mentality I have engrained in my head... I might be that 1% of the population that does not want to follow the boring trend of car, home, or tractor ownership... where is the fun in that...

Doing regular maintenance with cheap oil / filters is better than no maintenance at all...

I did not mean to give the impression, I don't believe in using quality stuff.

I am just presenting my experience, that it doesn't necessarily matter. So, it may not be worth the time that is often spent obsessing over it.

 

[Clipse3GT]

I did not mean to give the impression, I don't believe in using quality stuff.

I am just presenting my experience, that it doesn't necessarily matter. So, it may not be worth the time that is often spent obsessing over it.

I am with you, some things you are just fine with justifying the regular option vs. the premium. I am not saying you do not use quality stuff. But, agree with your point that something just do require or necessitate the need for anything more than basic to operate properly.